OCEAN MEDALLION

[XBGuy]

9 hours ago, MissP22 said:

The cabin number, as you say, is not printed on the Medallion but anyone with the Medallion in their possession can walk up to on of the select location boards on the ship & get your cabin number even with specific instructions on how to get there.

I take it that you haven't used the new system yet.

 

I explained it to the people at the PSD & they didn't think it any problem. I then asked if they were going to begin printing the cabin number on the cards also which they said, no since it would present a security problem.

 

They also didn't think it presented any problem since when you lose it the Medallion can be cancelled & reissued but would look into it. 

Although there is no "go home" button on the boards, only your cabin location and you can also check if if your cabin mate is in there.

Point of the story is, DON'T lose your Medallion and if you do you had better report it lost ASAP if lost.

 

So, you are saying that there is a "Go Home" capability on the kiosks and directions are provided without positive identification of the requester and without the requester entering the cabin number.

 

Thank you for the clarification.  I will yield to your experience.

 

I agree that his is a breech of security,  I might quibble, a bit, with your previous comment that resolution of this breech is a major software change.  My experience is that removing a capability is not that difficult.  The "elegance" of such a change might be questionable.  However, in a case like this, where Princess might, very possibly, be liable for abetting the commission of a crime, expeditiousness supersedes elegance.

 

Also, however, I would like to speculate on the mind set of an evil-doer who finds a medallion on a ship.  He has to think to himself, "Hmmm.  That medallion is broadcasting its presence to thousands of sensors on this ship.  If the person who lost it has not reported the loss, then there is nothing suspicious about it's movements, and I'm free to try to profit.  If, however, it's loss is reported at any time that I am carrying it, I might as well be carrying a sign that says 'Crime in Process.'  So, do I feel lucky?"

 

MissP22, again, I am going to speak from speculation rather than actual knowledge, but I would assume that activity from any medallion that has been reported as lost would be reported, with alarms, to the ship's security department.

 

I personally, have lost many hotel card keys.  "Lost" may not be a good choice of words.  Without exception I have left my hotel room without pocketing the key card.  If I ever cruise on a medallion-enabled ship, I am not going to be concerned about it falling out of my pocket.

 

My cavalier attitude, notwithstanding, your last sentence is, of course, prudent.

[caribill]

3 minutes ago, XBGuy said:

 

 

Also, however, I would like to speculate on the mind set of an evil-doer who finds a medallion on a ship.  He has to think to himself, "Hmmm.  That medallion is broadcasting its presence to thousands of sensors on this ship.  If the person who lost it has not reported the loss, then there is nothing suspicious about it's movements, and I'm free to try to profit.  If, however, it's loss is reported at any time that I am carrying it, I might as well be carrying a sign that says 'Crime in Process.'  So, do I feel lucky?"

 

 

So if you find a Medallion that has been lost, you do not want to pick it up and turn it in to the Purser's desk because if it had been reported lost, you will be carrying that sign.

 

On the other hand, if it has been lost and not found, Princess should be able to locate it quickly if it is still on the ship.

[MissP22]

On 11/24/2018 at 3:25 PM, XBGuy said:

 

So, you are saying that there is a "Go Home" capability on the kiosks and directions are provided without positive identification of the requester and without the requester entering the cabin number.

 

Thank you for the clarification.  I will yield to your experience.

 

I agree that his is a breech of security,  I might quibble, a bit, with your previous comment that resolution of this breech is a major software change.  My experience is that removing a capability is not that difficult.  The "elegance" of such a change might be questionable.  However, in a case like this, where Princess might, very possibly, be liable for abetting the commission of a crime, expeditiousness supersedes elegance.

 

Also, however, I would like to speculate on the mind set of an evil-doer who finds a medallion on a ship.  He has to think to himself, "Hmmm.  That medallion is broadcasting its presence to thousands of sensors on this ship.  If the person who lost it has not reported the loss, then there is nothing suspicious about it's movements, and I'm free to try to profit.  If, however, it's loss is reported at any time that I am carrying it, I might as well be carrying a sign that says 'Crime in Process.'  So, do I feel lucky?"

That's true but if a finder of the medallion were wrapped in some foil the medallion would be off the grid & totally undetectable. Just being next to some metal seems to reduce the range of the medallion considerably. Once the Medallion is reported lost they'll cancel it & you won't be able to do anything with it but turn it in or keep it for a souvenir. 

 

MissP22, again, I am going to speak from speculation rather than actual knowledge, but I would assume that activity from any medallion that has been reported as lost would be reported, with alarms, to the ship's security department.

 

I personally, have lost many hotel card keys.  "Lost" may not be a good choice of words.  Without exception I have left my hotel room without pocketing the key card.  If I ever cruise on a medallion-enabled ship, I am not going to be concerned about it falling out of my pocket.

 

My cavalier attitude, notwithstanding, your last sentence is, of course, prudent.

See above.

[MissP22]

On 11/24/2018 at 3:31 PM, caribill said:

 

So if you find a Medallion that has been lost, you do not want to pick it up and turn it in to the Purser's desk because if it had been reported lost, you will be carrying that sign.

 

On the other hand, if it has been lost and not found, Princess should be able to locate it quickly if it is still on the ship.

Unless they add thousands more sensors the range of locating the Medallion seems to be quite limited. You must place the Medallion on a receiver unit or be within 10 feet or so of one of their tablets.  

[Shirt-man]

Our OM took 8 days to arrive. Shipped on the 15th and arrived the day before we left on the 23rd. If we would have driven to FLL we would have left before it got there. They might want to ship them out a little earlier.

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, Shirt-man said:

Our OM took 8 days to arrive. Shipped on the 15th and arrived the day before we left on the 23rd. If we would have driven to FLL we would have left before it got there. They might want to ship them out a little earlier.

We would predict that the practice of mailing/shipping Medallions will be a short lived practice?  Why?  For the same reason that mass market cruise lines no longer mail out documents in nice folders.  This was the old practice when we would get all or our cruise documents in folders (sometimes real leather) along with personalized luggage tags.  But consider that there are more then 20 million cruisers per year and it costs real money to package documents (or a Medallion) and pay the shipping costs.  Just mailing out Medallions for one ship for a 7 day cruise could easily cost a cruise line 10s of thousands of dollars in labor and shipping costs.  So it is just a matter of time until you will get your Medallion once you arrive at a port.  It will be just another "cut-back" to join the hundreds of other cut-backs we have seen on the mass market cruise lines over the years.

 

Speaking of mailing folders with documents, I still have several dozen of these folders.  I throw out the pins, medallions, buttons, cruise cards, various awards...but for some weird reason have kept many of those folders.  HAL used to have really nice blue folders covered in a fabric.  Crystal used real leather.  Other lines used cheap cardboard :(.  Some of the luxury cruise lines still mail out documents, but it is becoming a rarity.  Speaking of documents, how many remember the old mulit-part airline tickets :).

 

Hank

[Ep010835]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Speaking of documents, how many remember the old mulit-part airline tickets :).

 

Seems I always managed to somehow get that darned red carbon stuff all over my fingers.  

The good old days!

[caribill]

15 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We would predict that the practice of mailing/shipping Medallions will be a short lived practice?  Why?  For the same reason that mass market cruise lines no longer mail out documents in nice folders.  ... So it is just a matter of time until you will get your Medallion once you arrive at a port.  It will be just another "cut-back" to join the hundreds of other cut-backs we have seen on the mass market cruise lines over the years.

 

 

One of the "promises" of benefits to the passenger is that check-in at the port would be very quick. But if you have to check-in to get the Medallion, it will take just as long as it always has to check-in.

[Hlitner]

6 hours ago, caribill said:

 

One of the "promises" of benefits to the passenger is that check-in at the port would be very quick. But if you have to check-in to get the Medallion, it will take just as long as it always has to check-in.

That "promise" makes little sense which has already been learned by those who have Medallions when they get to the port.  Consider that at check-in there were 3 functions performed. One has to present their Passport or other appropriate ID (for closed loop cruises) which is even collected for certain itineraries.  And one must usually need to present their credit card even though it has previously been put on the record via online check-in.  And finally the clerk would get you your key card.  The new procedure would mean they no longer have to get you a key card....which assumes you will no longer need a cruise card.  That does not seem to be anything that will help the check in process.  And the reality is that hundreds or more get to the port early and still have to wait in lounges or other holding areas.  Most of the hold up at the port has traditionally been the long queue to clear security and the Medallion will do nothing to help with that process.

 

I should mention that MSC has already found easier (and a lot cheaper) ways to speed up the embarkation process, especially for their Yacht Club folks.  For example, there is no hassle with credit cards at embarkation as passengers have 1-2 days to register their credit card (or other form of payment) onboard at multiple automated kiosks spread around the ship.

 

Hank

[Ep010835]

 From the time we arrived yesterday at Terminal 4 at Port Everglades, and walked into the building, and cleared screening at the X-ray machines, it took us a grand total of maybe four minutes max until we were walking out of the building and up onto the ship. 

 We already had our medallions out  and around our necks.  There is an entrance for those with medallions and an entrance for those without medallions. We obviously went into the line with medallions.  They scanned the medallions and we were done. 

 I can’t imagine how it could’ve been any quicker and easier. 

[PrincessLuver]

12 minutes ago, Ep010835 said:

 From the time we arrived yesterday at Terminal 4 at Port Everglades, and walked into the building, and cleared screening at the X-ray machines, it took us a grand total of maybe four minutes max until we were walking out of the building and up onto the ship. 

 We already had our medallions out  and around our necks.  There is an entrance for those with medallions and an entrance for those without medallions. We obviously went into the line with medallions.  They scanned the medallions and we were done. 

 I can’t imagine how it could’ve been any quicker and easier. 

 

That was our experience too on the Caribbean Princess a couple of weeks ago....smoothest and fastest check in we have ever had (even when we traveled in a suite) and loved the convinced of the OM over the Cruise Card......however I must say I really do miss the old hand crank I use to be able to use to start my car with in the "good old days!"

Edited November 26, 2018 by PrincessLuver

[caribill]

16 hours ago, Ep010835 said:

 From the time we arrived yesterday at Terminal 4 at Port Everglades, and walked into the building, and cleared screening at the X-ray machines, it took us a grand total of maybe four minutes max until we were walking out of the building and up onto the ship. 

 We already had our medallions out  and around our necks.  There is an entrance for those with medallions and an entrance for those without medallions. We obviously went into the line with medallions.  They scanned the medallions and we were done. 

 I can’t imagine how it could’ve been any quicker and easier. 

 

16 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

That was our experience too on the Caribbean Princess a couple of weeks ago

 

What about checking passports? Even if you provided passport information in advance, they would still need to see them to be sure (a) it is you and (b) you do have the passport with you.

[caribill]

17 hours ago, Hlitner said:

That "promise" makes little sense which has already been learned by those who have Medallions when they get to the port.  Consider that at check-in there were 3 functions performed. One has to present their Passport or other appropriate ID (for closed loop cruises) which is even collected for certain itineraries.  And one must usually need to present their credit card even though it has previously been put on the record via online check-in.  And finally the clerk would get you your key card.  The new procedure would mean they no longer have to get you a key card. ..which assumes you will no longer need a cruise card. 

 

It has been years since Princess has asked me to show the credit card at check-in. They just ask if I want to use the one that already has been entered online.

 

As I understand it, they are still issuing cruise cards as not everything yet can be handled by the Medallion alone.

[Ep010835]

8 hours ago, caribill said:

 

 

What about checking passports? Even if you provided passport information in advance, they would still need to see them to be sure (a) it is you and (b) you do have the passport with you.

 

From the time we arrived at the terminal till the time we set foot on the ship for the first time, our passports were checked three times. First time was prior to entering terminal building. The second was prior to going through the x-ray machines. And the third was at the check-in desk. At the check-in desk is where the distinction is made between medallion holders and those who have not yet picked up their medallions.  

Had we not already been in possession of our medallions, that would have surely slowed us down. How much? I haven’t a clue. I did however notice some people standing at the check-in counters as we swiftly passed by. These people were possibly being issued their medallions on site. 

[Ep010835]

8 hours ago, caribill said:

As I understand it, they are still issuing cruise cards as not everything yet can be handled by the Medallion alone.

 

 We were both issued a cruise card on site as we went through the boarding process on Sunday.  We ordered and received our medallions in advance and so had those hanging around our necks as we walked through security. Thus far I have seen absolutely nothing which requires a cruise card. Everything  is done using the Medallion. I put my cruise card in the safe when we got on board and it has been there since then. 

 In the spirit of trying to be thorough and anticipate problems, I did check the crise card when we arrived at our cabin just to make sure that it would open the door in the event there was a problem with the medallion. It did.

My assumption is they are issuing cruise cards at this point strictly as a back up. 

And, of course, for those who, for whatever reason, adamantly refused to have anything to do with the medallion. (Foil helmets, anyone?)

 I for one, think the medallion is a fantastic system and a huge improvement over the  nostalgia of bygone days.  

[XBGuy]

Ep010883, thank you for your on-the-scene reports.  We have all been speculating for so long.  It is great to read factual reports.

 

There has been some discussion about whether an evil-doer can use a found medallion that has not yet been reported lost to locate the cabin associated with found medallion.  There has been one correspondent who reported that by using the public kiosks, she was able to display her cabin number and directions to it.  Another correspondent reported that the procedure requires some sort of log-in at the public kiosk in order to get this information.

 

It is not clear to me whether or not you are on the ship, right now, but can you add any insight as to whether the public kiosk requires a user to somehow identify himself prior to divulging this type of information?

[Ep010835]

3 hours ago, XBGuy said:

Ep010883, thank you for your on-the-scene reports.  We have all been speculating for so long.  It is great to read factual reports.

 

There has been some discussion about whether an evil-doer can use a found medallion that has not yet been reported lost to locate the cabin associated with found medallion.  There has been one correspondent who reported that by using the public kiosks, she was able to display her cabin number and directions to it.  Another correspondent reported that the procedure requires some sort of log-in at the public kiosk in order to get this information.

 

It is not clear to me whether or not you are on the ship, right now, but can you add any insight as to whether the public kiosk requires a user to somehow identify himself prior to divulging this type of information?

 

 I am presently on the CB.  I can say the following with absolute certainty. Pictures attached.

When a person walks up to one of the Ocean Compass display screens (NOT one of the display screens showing games or daily activities, different display screens do different things) wearing an OM device, the photo of the wearer will appear automatically at the bottom left of the screen. 

OR,  if the OM holder has previously added an avitar to their profile, that avitar will appear rather than their photo. In the photos below, you will see the Cardinal that I added as my avitar. 

In the photo I’ve attached below you will see several options once the photo/avitar appears. 

You will see options for: 

Find Me

Stateroom

Shipmates

etc.......

The first photo shows the Ocean Ready screen before I approach it. 

The second photo shows my avitar along with the options I described in the paragraph above after I’ve approached it. 

The third photo shows the screen after I’ve hit the “Stateroom” button. You will see clearly my Stateroom number along with step by step details on how to travel from whichever Ocean Compass screen is used to my Stateroom. Shown on another screen which I did not photograph is a green path populated with green rectangles taking me right to my door. My full name and avitar is shown at upper left corner of photo number two. (Or your photo if you did not add an avitar.)

Of course, one must be logged into Ocean Compass and wearing an OM device  to make all this work. 

I did NOT have to do anything special in order for the Ocean Compass screen to recognize me when I walked up to it. In popular areas it is not unusual to see any number of faces/avatars appear and disappear over the course of almost any period of time. Now I suppose I could have hit “Stateroom” for any of these folks and been given directions to their Stateroom room but for all he obvious reasons, I didn’t. 

There is a “Cancel” button (X) that can be used to back out of all of this after you have the information you need. During this test for photos it would not cancel manually no matter which buttons I pressed or how often I pressed them. I had to wait about 3 minutes for it to time out. 

Lastly, Ocean Compass screens are located in all elevator lobbies and in some other public areas throughout the ship. 

Hope this is helpful. 

 

Oh, theres also the “Shipmates” button. But that’s another discussion. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Ep010835

[greenie082756]

EP10835, thank you so much for sharing your experience.  Very nice of you to do this.

[MissP22]

47 minutes ago, Ep010835 said:

 

 I am presently on the CB.  I can say the following with absolute certainty. Pictures attached.

When a person walks up to one of the Ocean Compass display screens (NOT one of the display screens showing games or daily activities, different display screens do different things) wearing an OM device, the photo of the wearer will appear automatically at the bottom left of the screen. 

OR,  if the OM holder has previously added an avitar to their profile, that avitar will appear rather than their photo. In the photos below, you will see the Cardinal that I added as my avitar. 

In the photo I’ve attached below you will see several options once the photo/avitar appears. 

You will see options for: 

Find Me

Stateroom

Shipmates

etc.......

The first photo shows the Ocean Ready screen before I approach it. 

The second photo shows my avitar along with the options I described in the paragraph above after I’ve approached it. 

The third photo shows the screen after I’ve hit the “Stateroom” button. You will see clearly my Stateroom number along with step by step details on how to travel from whichever Ocean Compass screen is used to my Stateroom. Shown on another screen which I did not photograph is a green path populated with green rectangles taking me right to my door. My full name and avitar is shown at upper left corner of photo number two. (Or your photo if you did not add an avitar.)

Of course, one must be logged into Ocean Compass and wearing an OM device  to make all this work. 

I did NOT have to do anything special in order for the Ocean Compass screen to recognize me when I walked up to it. In popular areas it is not unusual to see any number of faces/avatars appear and disappear over the course of almost any period of time. Now I suppose I could have hit “Stateroom” for any of these folks and been given directions to their Stateroom room but for all he obvious reasons, I didn’t. 

There is a “Cancel” button (X) that can be used to back out of all of this after you have the information you need. During this test for photos it would not cancel manually no matter which buttons I pressed or how often I pressed them. I had to wait about 3 minutes for it to time out. 

Lastly, Ocean Compass screens are located in all elevator lobbies and in some other public areas throughout the ship. 

Hope this is helpful. 

 

Oh, theres also the “Shipmates” button. But that’s another discussion. 

Thank you.  Some people just don't believe it's that easy to find a cabin using the Medallion.  

Did you report it to the PSD?

I wonder how long it'll take to correct the software. 

[XBGuy]

Ep010835, thank you, very much for the information.

 

If I may, I would ask for a bit more clarification.  

 

"Of course, one must be logged into Ocean Compass and wearing an OM device  to make all this work."

 

Again, I have never been exposed to the medallion system and do not have complete command of all the capabilities or, even, the nomenclature.  Am I correct in assuming that logging into Ocean Compass is something that you do with your PC/Smartphone/Tablet?  Can it be done at home prior to embarking?  Once you log in, do you stay logged in, or is there an inactivity timeout?  Am I correct in assuming that the user can log off from his intelligent device?

 

MissP22 has pointed out that an unauthorized user can, possibly, obtain private information from this system.  That sure seems to be a security breech to me. I would like to know whether a user can log off the system and, therefore. prevent the Ocean Compass kiosks from acknowledging the user's medallion.  Frankly, of course, I really don't care as long as I have control of my medallion.  If I lose my medallion, I know that once I report it as lost, it will be disabled.  However, there does seem to be a window of vulnerability in the time between the moment a medallion is lost and its report of loss.

 

To reiterate my position, I, personally, do not see this vulnerability to be significant, at all, in my case.  (Heck, I give up my cabin number all the time on Cruise Critic Roll Calls.)  However, there might be a case that I am not considering that makes this vulnerability more risky than I am thinking. 

 

Thank you, so much, for helping us out.

[c-boy]

Q ; are the kiosk's  multilingual ?

[caribill]

7 hours ago, Ep010835 said:

 

 We were both issued a cruise card on site as we went through the boarding process on Sunday. 

 I for one, think the medallion is a fantastic system and a huge improvement over the  nostalgia of bygone days.  

 

Did the cruise card still have the dining room information on it? If you did not have a cruise card, was there something that told you what your dining information was?

[caribill]

1 hour ago, Ep010835 said:

 

  In popular areas it is not unusual to see any number of faces/avatars appear and disappear over the course of almost any period of time. Now I suppose I could have hit “Stateroom” for any of these folks and been given directions to their Stateroom room but for all he obvious reasons, I didn’t.

 

Since you are a trustworthy individual and would not mis-use the information, it would be useful if you did hit stateroom for someone else's photo and let us know if it accepted or rejected the request.

 

If it accepts it, this is a much bigger security flaw than just letting a lost Medallion do this as it would mean any stranger could find out where anyone else they are following has a cabin.

[caribill]

23 minutes ago, XBGuy said:

To reiterate my position, I, personally, do not see this vulnerability to be significant, at all, in my case.  (Heck, I give up my cabin number all the time on Cruise Critic Roll Calls.)  However, there might be a case that I am not considering that makes this vulnerability more risky than I am thinking. 

 

 

 

Giving out your cabin number all the time is not necessarily a security risk since they cannot enter your cabin just by knowing the cabin number. However, someone who finds a lost (and unreported lost) Medallion can not only find the cabin, but can also enter it.

[Ep010835]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Did the cruise card still have the dining room information on it? If you did not have a cruise card, was there something that told you what your dining information was?

 

It sure does.