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Adventure OTS missing crew member, likely delays boarding 11/24


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We are currently on the Adventure of the seas and sadly, a crew member has been missing for several days. Just heard that the FBI will be doing a search of the ship tomorrow, which could likely cause delays in boarding.  Just a heads up for those of you boarding tomorrow.  

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Unless the crew member was a US citizen, not sure why the FBI would be investigating, let alone searching.  This apparently happened when the ship was in Mexico, in Mexican waters, or at sea, and without the person being from the US, the FBI has no jurisdiction.

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Sad news.

 

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Unless the crew member was a US citizen, not sure why the FBI would be investigating, let alone searching.  This apparently happened when the ship was in Mexico, in Mexican waters, or at sea, and without the person being from the US, the FBI has no jurisdiction.

 

My understanding is that when a ship is home ported out of a US port, it's standard procedure to notify the FBI in events like this even beyond the 12 mile territorial limit of the US.  The ship's manifest was submitted to the US authorities when it left and now it's returning absent of one soul outside of normal crew contract departures and arrivals in a foreign port.  The FBI decides if it should become involved.  It appears they have decided to.  

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30 minutes ago, twangster said:

Sad news.

 

 

My understanding is that when a ship is home ported out of a US port, it's standard procedure to notify the FBI in events like this even beyond the 12 mile territorial limit of the US.  The ship's manifest was submitted to the US authorities when it left and now it's returning absent of one soul outside of normal crew contract departures and arrivals in a foreign port.  The FBI decides if it should become involved.  It appears they have decided to.  

No, the US has claimed "extraterritorial jurisdiction" over incidents that occur in international waters, against US citizens, and not in the territorial waters of any other nation.  Regardless of where a ship is home ported, the US and the FBI do not have jurisdiction over the ship when foreign nationals are involved.  As for the manifest, that is a requirement of CBP (Customs and Border Protection), which is a department of DHS, while the FBI is under Justice.  So, only CBP cares whether or not the incoming manifest is the same as the outgoing manifest.  How or why a foreign crew member on a foreign ship left that ship in a foreign port is of absolutely no concern of the FBI, regardless of the reason, even if it was established that foul play was involved.  The FBI only has jurisdiction in cases involving foreign nationals when the ship is in US waters.

 

I believe you are confusing jurisdiction to investigate a crime, with the reporting requirement of the Cruise Vessel Safety and Security Act of 2010, which requires the lines to report incidents of crimes against passengers, regardless of nationality to the US, if the ship is homeported in the US.  This reporting is done to the USCG, for statistical analysis, but has nothing to do with the FBI having any jurisdiction over the incident.  And, I don't believe these statistics are required to be reported more frequently than quarterly, not after each incident.

Edited by chengkp75
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I didn't state they had legal jurisdiction, just that it's standard company procedure to notify them.  Should this situation lead to 3rd party legal action down the road, by notifying the FBI Royal can offer that they attempted to engage a law enforcement agency.

 

If there is a murderer on board and about to be let free into America I imagine that might be of interest to the authorities and they might choose to looked into the matter even though they don't have legal jurisdiction over the crime itself. 

Edited by twangster
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2 minutes ago, twangster said:

I didn't state they had legal jurisdiction, just that it's standard company procedure to notify them.  Should this situation lead to 3rd party legal action down the road, by notifying the FBI Royal can offer that they attempted to engage a law enforcement agency.

 

If there is a murderer on board and about to be let free into America I imagine that might be of interest to the authorities. 

It's not standard procedure to notify the FBI.  As noted, the crime statistics are reported to the USCG.  And as for a third party legal action, again the laws of the flag state apply to crimes or incidents occurring on that nation's ships, and that nation is the party whose law enforcement agencies would investigate.  In very few cases have foreign flag ships "invited" a US law enforcement agency to investigate something that happened on the high seas, to a national not of US citizenship.

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17 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It's not standard procedure to notify the FBI.  As noted, the crime statistics are reported to the USCG.  And as for a third party legal action, again the laws of the flag state apply to crimes or incidents occurring on that nation's ships, and that nation is the party whose law enforcement agencies would investigate.  In very few cases have foreign flag ships "invited" a US law enforcement agency to investigate something that happened on the high seas, to a national not of US citizenship.

 

So you are saying Bill the Hotel Director on Adventure lied when he told me it was standard procedure.   Guess you can't believe anything they say.  

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5 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

So you are saying Bill the Hotel Director on Adventure lied when he told me it was standard procedure.   Guess you can't believe anything they say.  

No, I'm saying that all crime statistics are reported to the US, but not for investigative purposes, but only for statistical data.  And he may have been assuming that since you were US citizens that you were interested in crimes or accidents against US citizens.  And I'm also saying that unless "invited" by the cruise line or the flag state, the FBI would have no ability to "choose to investigate".

Edited by chengkp75
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22 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No, I'm saying that all crime statistics are reported to the US, but not for investigative purposes, but only for statistical data.  And he may have been assuming that since you were US citizens that you were interested in crimes or accidents against US citizens.  And I'm also saying that unless "invited" by the cruise line or the flag state, the FBI would have no ability to "choose to investigate".

 

And yet they contacted the FBI just like he said.   Hmmm.   

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Tien Phuoc Nguyen was not from U.S. and they investigated.  Not sure exactly where the ship was but it was at sea.  Most times I don’t think ships sale in US waters while in transit to a port.  Want to keep the Casino open.

 

Part of the Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act in 2010, requires cruise lines sailing from the US to report crimes to the FBI.

 

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27 minutes ago, GarlicBread said:

I heard they were bringing a care team onboard but I didn’t hear about FBI. 

I mean, they already sent a replacement for the crew member so that gives you a little insight into how bothered the company is about it...

 

What would you expect them to do?  Someone needs to do the work of the missing crew member.  

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4 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Don’t argue with the chief man. He KNOWS the 411, and you are getting secondhand information from the hotel director (and WTH does he know about security and international jurisdiction)

 

Thanks Chief

I totally agree, I'm sure the chief is correct.

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1 hour ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

What would you expect them to do?  Someone needs to do the work of the missing crew member.  

 

To have a replacement within hours and the replacement is a friend of the missing it’s just very insensitive. 

I get it, I’ve worked on ships when crew members have ‘gone missing’, but usually there’s at least a cruise or more out of respect for everyone involved before a new crew member is brought it. Teams can cope a crew member or two down. Especially in this crews department. 

I know crew are just numbers to the company, but it would be nice for them to show a little respect to the other ‘numbers’ involved and calm a little on targets for one cruise. 

 

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1 hour ago, twangster said:

I'm confident the company and all crew on board do care but they don't have the luxury of shutting down to deal with it, there's a whole new cruise to turn and set of guests to satisfy.  

 

With the department effected they wouldn’t need to shut down anything being a member down. 

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