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stickey_mouse

Celebrity Edge- Major Ship Envy!

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18 minutes ago, sammiedawg said:

 

 

Edge space per passenger is very good for mass market at 44.  Kdam (dumb name that I cannot spell ) is 37.   Space per passenger is more important than generalizing whether a ship is big or small.

 

This is how marketing tricks and insufficient statistics are sold to us innocent.

Of course, space per passenger is more important than generalizing whether a ship is big or small. But we need to fully realize what "space per passenger" really is.

There are better HAL ship for comparisons.

The more important:

1. Open deck space is not included in tonnage. The Edge is lacking promenade deck. An important part if the ship is cut off in favor of the Suite Class, "leaving 86% of passengers behind".

2. Balconies on the Edge are covered, so, unlike on other ships, this space is now included in tonnage.

 

We cannot judge by tricky numbers only. Sometimes it's misleading.

 

Roughly consider real space pp on the Edge about 20% less than  the Niew Amsterdam, and 5% less or equal vs Koningsdam.

 

Happy cruising!

Edited by ronbe65

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18 minutes ago, ronbe65 said:

Celebrity Edge reality

1. Class segregation as a manifest of the company's way of cruising. Access to the premium part of the ship is suite guests only. No free access to the front deck unless you pay for the spa pass. Forward views are not for the plebs.

Premium part of the ship? Not sure what you mean here. You mean the suite sundeck? While it looks fantastic, I'm not sure it is "premium," as the ship as a whole looks great.

2. Design (think of the Eurodam as a benchmark for comparison)

2.1 No observation lounge. Imagine Eurodam without the Crow's Nest.

The observation lounge has been moved down = The Eden

2.1 No promenade deck. Imagine the Eurodam without this.

2.2 No "serene" sun deck. Imagine the Eurodam without the sun decks above the Crow's Nest and Tamarind.

I will take a Celebrity solarium over a "serene" sun deck anyway. One of my favorite spaces on a Celebrity ship.

2.3  No proper spa. Imagine the Eurodam without the T-pool in the spa.

Not sure what you mean by a "proper" spa, or if that's just your opinion of what a spa should have?

2.4 No sports court. Imagine no sports court on the Eurodam.

On two HAL cruises, I have only ever seen children using a sports court. I won't miss it. 

2.5 No open pool area for adults. Imagine the Eurodam without the aft pool.

Edge has an open air pool. It's not aft, but..?

2.5 Narrowed cabins (somewhat compensated by the "balcony-porch combos").
Another industry-wide cruise trend. I've read so many similar comments about K-dam. I don't like it, but I appreciate the added square footage of interior space brought by the new balcony concept. 

 

Innovations?

Other than the way the balconies are done - marketing dust.

"Leave the "Magic carpet" and "Rooftop Garden" behind".

I personally think the Rooftop Garden is stunning, and a great melding of the "large TV on deck" trend with a comfortable space. I could live without the Magic Carpet. And "other than the way the balconies are done"- don't write this off. I think this is an amazing idea, and other cruise lines will follow suit. 

 

What is the age of the Edge?

It's 10 years old now. MSC Cruises launched their first Edge in 2008 giving a start to a "new" (last century) trend - class segregation on cruise ships.

No, the Edge is about a week old. You can't bash a ship for being based on an older design. It's like my saying the Rotterdam is 100 years old because it is based on a classic design. 

 

 

 

I, too, have done a great deal of research and disagree with a lot of what you say. I've added some comments above, in orange/red. But to each their own, opinions are just that. 

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10 minutes ago, ronbe65 said:

This is how marketing tricks and insufficient statistics are sold to us innocent.

Of course, space per passenger is more important than generalizing whether a ship is big or small. But we need to fully realize what "space per passenger" really is.

There are better HAL ship for comparisons.

The more important:

1. Open deck space is not included in tonnage. The Edge is lacking promenade deck. An important part if the ship is cut off in favor of the Suite Class, "leaving 86% of passengers behind".

2. Balconies on the Edge are covered, so, unlike on other ships, this space is now included in tonnage.

 

We cannot judge by tricky numbers only. Sometimes it's misleading.

 

Roughly consider real space pp on the Edge about 20% less than  the Niew Amsterdam, and 5% less or equal vs Koningsdam.

 

Happy cruising!

 

While I agree that the ratio is not a definite mark of a ship's use of space, it is certainly a factor to consider and does a good job of generalizing the space to passenger makeup of the ship. But I don't think anybody chooses a cruise based only on this figure. 

 

And the suite cutoff is not an issue for me. I really don't think it leaves "86% of the passengers behind." It is made to be as unobtrusive as possible. When I sailed on the Norwegian Getaway, never once did I think, "Hey, where is the other 5% of this ship!?" Regardless of what I think, though, I think this is the future of the industry. Club Orange is just the start with HAL. 

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11 minutes ago, stickey_mouse said:

And the suite cutoff is not an issue for me. I really don't think it leaves "86% of the passengers behind." It is made to be as unobtrusive as possible. When I sailed on the Norwegian Getaway, never once did I think, "Hey, where is the other 5% of this ship!?" Regardless of what I think, though, I think this is the future of the industry. Club Orange is just the start with HAL. 

 

I'm not a fan of this trend. I plan to stay with the smaller ships, given a choice, where such segregation isn't easily achieved.

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21 minutes ago, stickey_mouse said:

 

While I agree that the ratio is not a definite mark of a ship's use of space, it is certainly a factor to consider and does a good job of generalizing the space to passenger makeup of the ship. But I don't think anybody chooses a cruise based only on this figure. 

 

And the suite cutoff is not an issue for me. I really don't think it leaves "86% of the passengers behind." It is made to be as unobtrusive as possible. When I sailed on the Norwegian Getaway, never once did I think, "Hey, where is the other 5% of this ship!?" Regardless of what I think, though, I think this is the future of the industry. Club Orange is just the start with HAL. 

The Suite Class is as unobtrusive as is a locked door with some paid access can be.

The Getaway is a good example of what I just posted: we have to look at the ship first.

Although it's "officially" ship-within-a-ship too, it's designed in a more civilized way. The forward sun deck location, that is a mirror copy of the Haven top deck, is spacious, "serene" and access to all. There is access to forward views for all. The major Haven facilities are hidden inside, never an eyesore. That's why there are no issues with the Haven on the Getaway that is btw the best NCL ship to date.

 

Happy cruising!

Edited by ronbe65

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8 minutes ago, ronbe65 said:

The Suite Class is as unobtrusive as is a locked door with some paid access can be.

The Getaway is a good example of what I just posted: we have to look at the ship first.

Although it's "officially" ship-within-a-ship too, it's designed in a more civilized way. The forward sun deck location, that is a mirror copy of the Haven top deck, is spacious, "serene" and access to all. There is access to forward views for all. The major Haven facilities are hidden inside, never an eyesore. That's why there are no issues with the Haven on the Getaway that is btw the best NCL ship to date.

 

Happy cruising!

 

I didn't realize the suite class spaces on the Edge were an "eyesore." I didn't notice that on the walkthrough videos. And don't all ships have "locked door," paid access spaces? You must be anti-Retreat on the HAL ships. And trust me, although "spacious," the sun deck on the Getaway is as crowded as I've ever seen a ship. Talk about a ship that crams passengers in.. NCL has mastered that!

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My comments, and our opinion about Solstice class ships is not based on metrics, suites or anything else.  We typically always do the same...balcony cabin.

 

The only thing that it is based upon is our perceptions of the ship compared to the many other cruise ships that we have been fortunate to cruise on.   And the very same for on board offering such as dining venues, bars, public areas, etc.  It is purely subjective.  But, if we had three ships, three different cruise lines that scored the same in our analysis the Solstice ship would win hands down.    And we would probably be willing to pay a slight premium for it.

 

We have not been on an Edge ship or on the K'dam so we have no opinion of either.  Both are on our list to hopefully try at some point.

Edited by iancal

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1 hour ago, ronbe65 said:

This is how marketing tricks and insufficient statistics are sold to us innocent.

Of course, space per passenger is more important than generalizing whether a ship is big or small. But we need to fully realize what "space per passenger" really is.

There are better HAL ship for comparisons.

The more important:

1. Open deck space is not included in tonnage. The Edge is lacking promenade deck. An important part if the ship is cut off in favor of the Suite Class, "leaving 86% of passengers behind".

2. Balconies on the Edge are covered, so, unlike on other ships, this space is now included in tonnage.

 

We cannot judge by tricky numbers only. Sometimes it's misleading.

 

Roughly consider real space pp on the Edge about 20% less than  the Niew Amsterdam, and 5% less or equal vs Koningsdam.

 

Happy cruising!

 

So if Edge counts balcony covered space in tonnage,  wouldn’t that mean their space per passenger number is actually deflated?   

 

 

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I think that interior space design, color schemes, and things like elevator placement play as larger, or even larger part in the sense of space and openness as do space ratios.  Things like elevator banks than let out directly in front of the MDR or very dark decor with oversized furnishings and wall decoration that served to make the rooms look small and impeded traffic.

 

Or worse on some older ships from time to time...elevator banks that appear to be perennially out of service for one reason or another.

Edited by iancal

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3 hours ago, ronbe65 said:

 

 

...Neither plus, nor minus

Transformation of the traditional balconies.

 

Innovations?

Other than the way the balconies are done - marketing dust.

"Leave the "Magic carpet" and "Rooftop Garden" behind"...

 

 

Can you explain/describe what they have done to the balconies to make them unique?

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Passenger space ratios became important numbers to us based on a couple sailing experiences.

We had very pleasant experiences on Princess Grand class ships.  Space ration of 41.  2600 passengers.  Then we tried the Super Grand class Caribbean Princess, for which they added an additional passenger deck but kept  everything else the same.  Now there were 3100 passengers for a space ratio of not quite 36.  We hated it from start to finish as there were people everywhere.  

We were not bowled over by the Disney fantasy class, which, per the brochures, has a terrific space ratio with standard double occupancy capacity of  2500.  Then we sailed and passenger count was 4000 because so many cabins had third, fourth and fifth passengers.  We spent the week pushing baby strollers and figuring out how to hide from the masses.  

 

I know that several thousand travel agents are currently onboard Edge for a preview cruise.  Anxious to hear what my agent friend thinks.  And we are not big Celebrity fans.  

 

Edited by sammiedawg

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stickey mouse i do not know about passenger ratios...but 2000 passengers on a vessel is fine by our taste where we find ourselves not crowded...great service, good size cabins and being able to walk or jog around the ship...BTW we love their hydro pool very relaxing and the phone is put away till we get back....our true vacation

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1 hour ago, a.madruga said:

stickey mouse i do not know about passenger ratios...but 2000 passengers on a vessel is fine by our taste where we find ourselves not crowded...great service, good size cabins and being able to walk or jog around the ship...BTW we love their hydro pool very relaxing and the phone is put away till we get back....our true vacation

 

Have you tried the K-dam? Or is it too big for your liking? 

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23 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

HAL is forced to offer low prices right now to get travel industry attention because no one can find them, let alone book their cruises, on the new HAL website. 

You are obviously unfamiliar with Celebrity's website.

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15 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm not a fan of this trend. I plan to stay with the smaller ships, given a choice, where such segregation isn't easily achieved.

I am also not a fan of the trend of cutting off access to what I consider to be important parts of a ship, especially forward-facing outside decks and interior observation lounges — great places that allow guests to be in touch with the water, if you will, and to watch sail-ins and sail always. As best I can tell from the Edge deck plans, there is no such lounge (the equivalent of the Crow’s Nest on HAL and the Sky Lounge on Celebrity’s S-class), and the forward-facing outside deck is the Retreat area restricted to suite guests.  

 

Right now, Celebrity’s S-class ships are my favorite, and I worry about what Celebrity is going to do to them as they are Edgified in what Celebrity calls “the Revolution.” I’m pretty sure we are going to see spaces that are now available to all restricted to suite guests. 

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One of the best things we love with HAL are they Signature Suites, much more cabin and bathroom space for just a little more than the best most expensive Verandah cabins. I think the HAL SS are one of the best values in the cruising market today. We tried a so called Mini Suite on NCL and it was basically just a same size Verandah cabin. We looked at both Celebrity and Princess for our Alaska cruise for next summer and since we are traveling with our 10 year old grandson in our cabin, the Noordam Signature Suite was over $1800 less than either X or Princess in a comparable cabin class. We have not been on the new HAL larger class of ships but the passenger size of the Vista and Signature Class ships seems to be just right for us.

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23 hours ago, stickey_mouse said:

 

Better rating at what exactly? 

The over all cruising experience 

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21 hours ago, stickey_mouse said:

 

I agree 100%. The Celebrity brand is very much full speed ahead right now, which I think will pay dividends for them in the coming years. I applaud HAL for trying to be a little more progressive with its most recent ships, but will it be enough? 

The entire fleet of Carnival corporation is far larger that the fleet of RCL corp . The new ships coming in the 2020 period from Princess will be  liquid gas powered ships  . Also ,their ships are getting larger .It is the trend in the cruising industry for the main line cruise ships 

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On 12/2/2018 at 4:46 AM, Krazy Kruizers said:

I don't care how glitzy she is or how expensive she is or what all is included in some of the categories, she is just too big for us.  Just looking at her outsides, and she is ugly.

 

Really only about 150 passengers larger than the K-Dam and S-Dam...but X ship is larger than HAL.  While we like HAL, we REALLY like the fact that X Solstice class are so open and roomy with high ceilings and a more open flow and feel.

Edited by blueboro

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39 minutes ago, blueboro said:

 

Really only about 150 passengers larger than the K-Dam and S-Dam...but X ship is larger than HAL.  While we like HAL, we REALLY like the fact that X Solstice class are so open and roomy with high ceilings and a more open flow and feel.

Then stick with the X ships .  We love our HAL fleet .

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42 minutes ago, blueboro said:

. . .  While we like HAL, we REALLY like the fact that X Solstice class are so open and roomy with high ceilings and a more open flow and feel.

We've just returned from a westbound TA on the Celebrity Silhouette (one of the S-class ships), having last sailed on her four years ago.  She is a stunningly beautiful ship, and remains our favorite ship to date.  I really do worry that this may change after Celebrity "revolutionizes" her.  :classic_unsure:

 

I'd love a combination of HAL's great itineraries on something like Celebrity's S-class ships.  Which HAL ships should I be looking at? 

Edited by Turtles06

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21 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Then stick with the X ships .  We love our HAL fleet .

 

Thanks for your permission...hit a nerve huh???

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