Gen'l travel agent question

[Chipmoose]

I was under the impression that, for the large cruise lines at least, at any given time the price for a cruise from the cruiseline was the best price a travel agent would be able to get, an agent may be able to offer on board credit or other amenities, but the cost of the cruise would be no better.

But I have been able to book 2 cruises, with 2 different large agencies, at a lower cost than the cruiseline was offering,  by several hundreds of dollars.

After the first time I assumed that the agency bought a block of guarantee rooms at a low cost, and they were able to hold that cost as the cost of the cruise went up.

But the most recent booking, we were able to book the room of our choice, which was also still available on the cruiseline website, so it appears the agency had not bought up that specific room, since it was still available on the cruiseline website,  nor was this room a part of a block of guarantee rooms, since we were able to request that specific room.

So how does this work? How could the agency give us a better price on a specific room hundreds of dollars less that the cruiseline could?

Thanks in advance!

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 minutes ago, Chipmoose said:

I was under the impression that, for the large cruise lines at least, at any given time the price for a cruise from the cruiseline was the best price a travel agent would be able to get, an agent may be able to offer on board credit or other amenities, but the cost of the cruise would be no better.

But I have been able to book 2 cruises, with 2 different large agencies, at a lower cost than the cruiseline was offering,  by several hundreds of dollars.

After the first time I assumed that the agency bought a block of guarantee rooms at a low cost, and they were able to hold that cost as the cost of the cruise went up.

But the most recent booking, we were able to book the room of our choice, which was also still available on the cruiseline website, so it appears the agency had not bought up that specific room, since it was still available on the cruiseline website,  nor was this room a part of a block of guarantee rooms, since we were able to request that specific room.

So how does this work? How could the agency give us a better price on a specific room hundreds of dollars less that the cruiseline could?

Thanks in advance!

Some cruise lines have "preferred partnership" agreements with their top selling TAs. That may translate to rotating temporary "sales" with lower pricing for several weeks. Those TAs also have access to unfilled cruises at discounted prices which may or may not be advertised on the line's website. 

 

As you mentioned, some TAs will commit to a block of rooms for a lower price. But, that "block" may only be a guarantee to sell so many cruises rather than specific numbered cabins. 

 

And a TA may share commissions with you in one of several forms including refundable SBC, a rebate check or an unadvertised lower price (though this last one treads a thin line regarding the cruise line's requirement to not publicly reduce the price.

[Chipmoose]

 I learned something new today, and I have you to thank for that flatbush, thanks for the insights!

[zqvol]

2 hours ago, Chipmoose said:

I was under the impression that, for the large cruise lines at least, at any given time the price for a cruise from the cruiseline was the best price a travel agent would be able to get, an agent may be able to offer on board credit or other amenities, but the cost of the cruise would be no better.

But I have been able to book 2 cruises, with 2 different large agencies, at a lower cost than the cruiseline was offering,  by several hundreds of dollars.

After the first time I assumed that the agency bought a block of guarantee rooms at a low cost, and they were able to hold that cost as the cost of the cruise went up.

But the most recent booking, we were able to book the room of our choice, which was also still available on the cruiseline website, so it appears the agency had not bought up that specific room, since it was still available on the cruiseline website,  nor was this room a part of a block of guarantee rooms, since we were able to request that specific room.

So how does this work? How could the agency give us a better price on a specific room hundreds of dollars less that the cruiseline could?

Thanks in advance!

 

What you can't determine is what the TA is paying the cruise line on your behalf.

[Texas Tillie]

4 hours ago, zqvol said:

 

What you can't determine is what the TA is paying the cruise line on your behalf.

 

I would never use a travel agent that didn't charge my credit card directly to the cruise line. Now, the cruise line might then give the travel agent a rebate, but you know exactly what the cruise costs as the travel agent isn't paying on your behalf.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Texas Tillie

[Krazy Kruizers]

Our TA is among the ones that are able to give us good deals -- she knows exactly what type of cabin we want and it is not part of group of cabins that she offers at special prices.  But she does get us a special price and the cruise line does give her credit for it.  And we do get perks.

[Flatbush Flyer]

9 hours ago, zqvol said:

 

What you can't determine is what the TA is paying the cruise line on your behalf.

Huh?

One should never use a travel agent who charges your credit card directly rather than forwarding the CC info to the cruise line for it to make the direct charge.

To this, I would add a caveat about using TAs who won't provide both their invoice AND the cruise line's invoice.

In case things become FUBAR, you can never have too much documentation. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Flatbush Flyer

[jeraud]

In the past we've always shopped for cruises by going to different online TAs which invariably always had the same fares but different levels of perks. We also used one of the "compete" sites that gets you bids from different online TA's. They also all had the same fares but different perks. Some were unable to get the cabin class we wanted. Our last 2 cruises, we used a local TA here in South Florida  referred to us by one of his relatives,  who has beaten every deal out there. We get a better fare and all of the perks.  For example, on a recent cruise, the price on the cruise line site was +/-4800 with 4 perks. We paid 3100 with 4 perks at higher levels. IE premium vs classic beverage, 150 addl OBC. The TA charged our card through the cruise line and we were able to confirm our reservation number within 30 minutes. For some reason we weren't confident in using a local storefront TA - that's all changed.  BY the way - never met the TA face to face - all by phone and email. 

[mafig]

On my upcoming cruise I had a lot of OBC and my TA offered to use a couple of hundred to take it off the price of the cruise.  That's what I did, since I always stress about whether the OBC will be there or not.  Makes no difference, really, since the OBC is refundable and I'd be getting it back anyway, but in this case it's before rather than after the cruise.

[Hlitner]

Just remember that "general questions" usually get "general answers."  That being said, the pricing policies/controls vary from cruise line to cruise line.  While some cruise lines try to strictly enforce price controls, there are other lines (such as Princess) that have a different point of view.  So yes, depending on the cruise line you might actually get a better cruise price by shopping around.  We could go into some boring details about how and why this happens, but suffice it to say that shopping around can sometimes save you money on the actual cruise price.  Another issue that really  complicates pricing (and this is no accident) are the use of various "promotions" that can mis lead cruisers.  My favorite example has to do with the wide proliferation of drink packages and the highly inflated values put on those packages by the cruise lines.  So a cruise line might increase their price by $50 per passenger day and tell you its a "bargain" because that increase gets you a drink package valued at $75 a day (just an example).  But that $75 value is in the mind of the cruise line and likely not the real value to the average cruiser that might spend $35 per passenger day on drinks.

 

So what to do?  When comparing cruise prices you need to look at what you are getting for your money and not the total price.  When I do want to do actual price comparisons it is simply a matter of determining the "price per passenger/day"  And when looking at the promotions (drink packages, pre-paid gratuities, free Internet, etc) put a value on each of those items based on your own spending habits....and ignore the value spewed out by cruise lines and cruise agencies.  So, for DW and myself, we know that our average drink cost per day is about $35 per passenger day.  Remember, when looking at drink packages there will be sea days when folks will drink more, and long port days when folks will drink a lot less.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

10 minutes ago, mafig said:

On my upcoming cruise I had a lot of OBC and my TA offered to use a couple of hundred to take it off the price of the cruise.  That's what I did, since I always stress about whether the OBC will be there or not.  Makes no difference, really, since the OBC is refundable and I'd be getting it back anyway, but in this case it's before rather than after the cruise.

One of our favored cruise agencies will show us multiple price options with and without various promotions and/or OBCs.  A couple of years ago, when pricing out a cruise we noticed that we had the option of getting $700 in OBCs or giving up that OBC and saving $1000 on the cruise price.  I called my favorite cruise agent and asked her, "do folks actually pay $1000 to get $700 of On Board Credits?"  She started laughing and said that yes, there were quite a few cruises that would do that kind of stupid thing...even when she would explain what they were doing.   Go figure.  On one 38 day HAL booking (a transpacific/Australia/NZ cruise) we saved $11,000 by repricing the booked cruise and giving up a drink package.  I said to that same cruise agent that there was no way we would run-up an $11,000 bar bill!  But there are folks that just do not do the math, or perhaps are "mathematically challenged" and never look at that kind of thing.

 

As to whether your OBC will be there (or not)…there is no reason to get stressed.  Simply print out all your invoices and documents that indicate your promos (including OBCs) and take it along on your cruise.  A few days into your cruise check your onboard account to make sure that everything is properly applied.  If not, just pay a friendly visit to Guest Relations and show them your documentation (they will usually make copies) and the issues are generally resolved within a few hours.   We have an upcoming cruise where we are getting $2300 in OBCs for multiple reasons and I already have a small file of paperwork in case of an issue.  Absolutely no stress for me...although it might be stressful for Guest Relations as they try to work through the information and codes (if there is a problem).

 

Hank

[MCC retired]

Some cruise lines still permit ANY TA to discount the cruise lines best current rates , but prohibit them from advertising 

the discounted rate . You must contact the TA for "their rate" .

Princess , HAL and Cunard are 3 that permit TA's to discount .

Whether the TA discounts or not is up to the TA.

 

[sverigecruiser]

11 hours ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

I would never use a travel agent that didn't charge my credit card directly to the cruise line.

 

That is probably an American thing.

 

When I have used travel agents they have never charged my credit card directly to the cruise line. I have always paid the travel agent so I defenitely not know how much they paid the cruise line.

 

When you are charged directly to the cruise line do you get a separate bill from the travel agent or how does that work?

[LHT28]

39 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

That is probably an American thing.

 

When I have used travel agents they have never charged my credit card directly to the cruise line. I have always paid the travel agent so I defenitely not know how much they paid the cruise line.

 

When you are charged directly to the cruise line do you get a separate bill from the travel agent or how does that work?

 

Most people get an invoice  from the cruise line via the TA  with all payments made

The problem is if you pay the TA direct & they do not forward the payment to the cruise line or go out of business  you are out of luck

We always make sure the payment on the CC is to the cruise line

Maybe they have other protections  in place in Sweden  than  in North America ??

JMO

[Texas Tillie]

40 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

That is probably an American thing.

 

When I have used travel agents they have never charged my credit card directly to the cruise line. I have always paid the travel agent so I defenitely not know how much they paid the cruise line.

 

When you are charged directly to the cruise line do you get a separate bill from the travel agent or how does that work?

 

You get a statement from the travel agent and when payment time comes you give the agent your credit card number and the agent relays the info to the cruise line. In the US this is standard and there have been cases where a person didn't know, paid the travel agent and the agent never paid the cruise line. The US has consumer protection laws but they generally aren't as strong as Europe. This is why cruises are often more expensive in Europe - to cover consumer protection. I'm especially aware of this in the UK.

[Chipmoose]

11 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Just remember that "general questions" usually get "general answers."  T

 Thanks for all the info Hank. 

I put "general questions" to make sure all knew I wasn't asking for info on specific TA.  I should have mentioned the cruiseline I am booking is RCL, I was under the impression they had pretty firm pricing controls.

[brillohead]

6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

That is probably an American thing.

  

When I have used travel agents they have never charged my credit card directly to the cruise line. I have always paid the travel agent so I defenitely not know how much they paid the cruise line.

 

When you are charged directly to the cruise line do you get a separate bill from the travel agent or how does that work?

The travel agent gets a commission from the cruise line -- you don't pay a fee to the travel agent.

Kinda like when you buy a car from a dealership -- you pay the amount on the bottom line, and then after you leave with your shiny new automobile, the dealership cuts a check to the salesperson for their commission.  

 

 

[Hlitner]

43 minutes ago, Chipmoose said:

the  Thanks for all the info Hank. 

I put "general questions" to make sure all knew I wasn't asking for info on specific TA.  I should have mentioned the cruiseline I am booking is RCL, I was under the impression they had pretty firm pricing controls.

We are also under the same impression, although I will admit we stopped cruising RCI more then a decade ago for various reasons related to quality and their major change of philosophy.  Celebrity has gotten its share of our business and they also have pretty strict price controls although a lot of games can be played with their various promotions.   If we were to book an RCI cruise we would also be looking for an OBC in the range of 7-10% of the cruise price.  One issue we have with RCI products (including Celebrity and Azamara) is their policy of not allowing the "stacking" of OBCs.   For example, if you own 100 shares of RCI stock you would be eligible for a stockholder OBC, but they will generally deny that credit saying that you cannot combine it with a promotion (just about everyone books promotions with (RCI) or another OBC.  Compare this to the CCL family of cruise lines (Princess, HAL, Seabourn, etc) where they will allow you to "stack" OBCs and promotions.  On the longer (and more expensive) cruises that we generally book, these policies amount to real money (we are talking many hundreds of dollars on comparable cruises).

 

Hank

[sverigecruiser]

6 hours ago, LHT28 said:

 

Most people get an invoice  from the cruise line via the TA  with all payments made

The problem is if you pay the TA direct & they do not forward the payment to the cruise line or go out of business  you are out of luck

We always make sure the payment on the CC is to the cruise line

Maybe they have other protections  in place in Sweden  than  in North America ??

JMO

 

The payment has never been to the cruise line when we have used a travel agent.

 

We probably have other protections in place here than in North America.

[sverigecruiser]

6 hours ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

You get a statement from the travel agent and when payment time comes you give the agent your credit card number and the agent relays the info to the cruise line. In the US this is standard and there have been cases where a person didn't know, paid the travel agent and the agent never paid the cruise line. The US has consumer protection laws but they generally aren't as strong as Europe. This is why cruises are often more expensive in Europe - to cover consumer protection. I'm especially aware of this in the UK.

 

As you said we have other consumer protection laws here so that may be a reason why it's  differently done here.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, brillohead said:

The travel agent gets a commission from the cruise line -- you don't pay a fee to the travel agent.

Kinda like when you buy a car from a dealership -- you pay the amount on the bottom line, and then after you leave with your shiny new automobile, the dealership cuts a check to the salesperson for their commission.  

 

 

 

When I buy a car I pay the dealer not the company which produced the car.  I understand the difference between buying a cruise and a car so I understand what you mean.

 

[brillohead]

1 minute ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

When I buy a car I pay the dealer not the company which produced the car.  I understand the difference between buying a cruise and a car so I understand what you mean.

  

My point was that your salesperson (the travel agent, in the case of a cruise) gets paid from the entity that you paid for the product (the cruise line for a cruise, the dealership for a car). 

You don't pay Chevrolet or Audi for your car, just like you don't pay the shipyard for the cruise.  

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, brillohead said:

My point was that your salesperson (the travel agent, in the case of a cruise) gets paid from the entity that you paid for the product (the cruise line for a cruise, the dealership for a car). 

You don't pay Chevrolet or Audi for your car, just like you don't pay the shipyard for the cruise.  

 

I understood your point.