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Airspeed

Is Celebrity shooting itself in the foot?

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37 minutes ago, waterbug123 said:

 

This just in....not everyone from the same era likes the same music.  You may hate disco, and you are certainly not alone, but an awful lot of people get very nostalgic when it plays. 

Definitely. Give me Led Zep, Black Sabbath etc over Abba and Village People any day. Problem is that is never catered for on a cruise. 

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1 hour ago, waterbug123 said:

 

This just in....not everyone from the same era likes the same music.  You may hate disco, and you are certainly not alone, but an awful lot of people get very nostalgic when it plays. 

 

Yep. And not everyone is looking for the same experience in a cruise. I'd be perfectly happy to never hear YMCA on a cruise, but enough people like it that they continue to play it. I think Celebrity is betting the changes on Edge will appeal to the group that isn't nostalgic for the good old days of cruising, because they weren't cruising then. As I said, I haven't sailed Edge yet, so will reserve opinion, but I find the differences interesting.

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On 2/4/2019 at 9:51 AM, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Quantum was a flop, based on passenger reaction and reviews.  RCCL spent a ton of money advertising Quantum in North America, only to then shove them off to Asia and Australia, markets that would be more excited to have new ships and features.  You say that was planned all along, if so, they announced it as a surprise to everyone else.  Extensive decor planning went into remodeling Oasis MDRs to convert them to DD with different decor, only to be scrapped.

 

Obviously these are my subjective opinions.  Your ideas, entertaining 38 - 54 year olds with Abba and Village people, I believe is out of touch, our median high school graduating year was 1991.  Do I want X decor to appeal to Boomers, Gen X, and Millennials?  As much as possible, why not?  I follow Millennial travel blogs fairly regularly, and they are very into Hyatt's luxury and rewards program.  Very little hype about hipster hotels at all, that's more of a niche and a stereotype.

 

Traveling Millennials with money are often apprehensive about cruising because (A) being trapped on a crowded ship (B) the limited time in port, and (C) the view that shipboard food is superficial.  More overnights and authentic themed restaurants would help.

 

 

 

Sorry, but I'll state my opinion here too.   Two Quantum class ships were intended for Asia and Australia and in particular Quantum OTS was fitted out for the China market which is huge and growing.  Smart and successful business decision by RCI, Inc.   They were not flops "shoved off" to Asia.  There is a lot of published research  about the Asia cruise market potential.  Ovation has done well in Australia. Not everything is dedicated to North America.  Do you consider ships dedicated to European cruises a flop too? FYI Anthem has been sailing out of Bayonne NJ and has been extremely popular.  I do agree that certain Quantum-class concepts like Dynamic Dining did not work and were changed after the fact.  And DD was not introduced on Oasis Class ships. True enough.  So there might be some things from Edge and do not hold up to customer reactions and get changed or eliminated.  This reflects the dynamics of any market so changes always occur. 

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I've been reading the many replies this topic has generated. I might want to clarify my main gripe: Why change the entire fleet over to the new Edge format when you don't know yet how the market is reacting to the new concept? Is this not an excessive risk you are taking?

 

In terms of "bashing something I have not tried yet": I have been reading the reviews here, on Cruise Critic, and they did not come out too hot. I am gauging this compared to other reviews of ships I know (not that many, by the way, only the Oceania Riviera and the MSC Divina). And on average, there seems to be at best muted enthusiasm for the Edge.

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On 2/2/2019 at 8:23 PM, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

Royal Suites on the M class have a sliding glass door to the veranda.  That's a pretty good window on the world.

 

I think it's interesting that you are condemning the entire process when no one has yet seen it.

Photos and concept pictures.

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4 hours ago, Gordoncruickshank said:

How do you think the CS would work if there are 3 adults? Our second oldest is threatening to join us again in 2021.

It worked out ok in October in a RS. She wouldn't get the beverage package but she has Michael's if she wants anything. She is mid to late 30s. 

 

 

I think it would work fine because you have the two entrances to the bathroom so you can close the bedroom door and everyone has privacy.  Certainly not as comfortable as the RS but she would still be sleeping on a sofa bed in either one.  The table that is on the veranda is certainly big enough for 3 to eat at it.    I wouldn't hesitate to have 3 in a CS. 

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46 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

 

 

I think it would work fine because you have the two entrances to the bathroom so you can close the bedroom door and everyone has privacy.  Certainly not as comfortable as the RS but she would still be sleeping on a sofa bed in either one.  The table that is on the veranda is certainly big enough for 3 to eat at it.    I wouldn't hesitate to have 3 in a CS. 

Thanks for your reply.

We have cruised in a CS a number of times with the two of us, and are in one in 17 days time for 3 weeks but it was difficult to imagine 3 in the suite. I just wasn’t sure how it would work with 3. The other option was the Signature suites but there is no much difference in the size of the rooms. 

 

By by the time I am looking for, the Equinox will have been revolutionised by then and will have the Reflection and signature suites on deck 14 but I am not sure how that would work. It is probably not worth the extra cash if I get the 4 perks for booking on board.

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2 hours ago, Airspeed said:

I've been reading the many replies this topic has generated. I might want to clarify my main gripe: Why change the entire fleet over to the new Edge format when you don't know yet how the market is reacting to the new concept? Is this not an excessive risk you are taking?

 

In terms of "bashing something I have not tried yet": I have been reading the reviews here, on Cruise Critic, and they did not come out too hot. I am gauging this compared to other reviews of ships I know (not that many, by the way, only the Oceania Riviera and the MSC Divina). And on average, there seems to be at best muted enthusiasm for the Edge.

 

Compared to a random message board composed of random mostly americans who for are satisfied with more traditional cruising, I think celebrities' (and more importantly royal caribbean international's) internal research is a lot more accurate.  I am pretty sure they are moving rapidly to change their offering because their internal research shows that it is actually quite popular and is projected to make them a ton of money.

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On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 12:58 PM, Airspeed said:

I have had my third Celebrity cruise in December, the last two cruises were in a Penthouse suite on the Millenium-class Summit, prior to that we were in a Royal Suite.

We both (my wife and I) really liked the Summit, and though we felt the Royal Suite was dark, dated, and definitely can use an upgrade, loved the Penthouse suite to death! Wooden Parquet flooring, Yamaha C1 grand piano (I play), gigantic balcony, and so on...

 

From everything I read the Edge looks close to a concept disaster. Yet Celebrity, without testing the market perception of its new concept, has decided to go full blown and "Edgesize" its entire fleet. The Penthouse Suite will be forever ruined on the Summit.

 

This reminds me of the CueCat, that innovative bar code scanner that ended up being on or IT's worst marketing disasters. The difference: It was free. The Edge is not. In fact,she carries a premium.

 

This whole horror show has prompted me to  look at other suites on other cruise lines, such as Holland America's Pinnacle Suite, or the Royal Caribbean Royal Suite. I would have never done so had I now known that the Penthouse was going to be ruined.

 

In my opinion, Celebrity is shooting itself in the foot...

Though I have no frame of reference to sympathize with the trials and tribulations of Royal suite issues, I do have a general approach to new things.  Try it and assess yourself for making the call that a disaster has happened.  Good luck.

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6 hours ago, Airspeed said:

I've been reading the many replies this topic has generated. I might want to clarify my main gripe: Why change the entire fleet over to the new Edge format when you don't know yet how the market is reacting to the new concept? Is this not an excessive risk you are taking?

 

In terms of "bashing something I have not tried yet": I have been reading the reviews here, on Cruise Critic, and they did not come out too hot. I am gauging this compared to other reviews of ships I know (not that many, by the way, only the Oceania Riviera and the MSC Divina). And on average, there seems to be at best muted enthusiasm for the Edge.

They are really not changing the entire fleet over to the new Edge format as you state.  Actually not sure what you mean by format.  The M-Class and S-Class ships will keep their traditional cabin and balcony configurations.   A few more cabins will be added.  A lot of much needed internal renovations and updating is taking place to freshen the ships, particularly M Class.  See the discussion threads on Millennium and the pictures. It is near done and looks beautiful (my opinion). The interior color schemes and furniture are likely being redone with some features on Edge.  Is that necessarily a bad thing?  It is quite subjective of course.  I recently sailed Edge and the interior design and colors were quite attractive (again my opinion).  Most comments on these threads have centered around the IV cabins.  You either like them or not.  But the current fleet is not getting IV cabins.  

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8 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Sorry, but I'll state my opinion here too.   Two Quantum class ships were intended for Asia and Australia and in particular Quantum OTS was fitted out for the China market which is huge and growing.  Smart and successful business decision by RCI, Inc.   They were not flops "shoved off" to Asia.  There is a lot of published research  about the Asia cruise market potential.  Ovation has done well in Australia. Not everything is dedicated to North America.  Do you consider ships dedicated to European cruises a flop too? FYI Anthem has been sailing out of Bayonne NJ and has been extremely popular.  I do agree that certain Quantum-class concepts like Dynamic Dining did not work and were changed after the fact.  And DD was not introduced on Oasis Class ships. True enough.  So there might be some things from Edge and do not hold up to customer reactions and get changed or eliminated.  This reflects the dynamics of any market so changes always occur. 

 

Exactly- sending Quantum to Asia was not a sudden decision of  "oh my god we screwed up and Americans hate this so let's try Asia instead, quick- order a renovation."    Some of the concepts flopped, but the ships themselves were not flops, Royal did not go bankrupt, Royal did not go out of business, nor did any of the other doomsday predictions come to pass.  I sincerely doubt it will be much different with Edge.    Some concepts may be revised on Edge or as far as what is planned for the rest of the fleet, but it isn't going to cause Celebrity to fail like some would have you think.

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1 minute ago, waterbug123 said:

 

Exactly- sending Quantum to Asia was not a sudden decision of  "oh my god we screwed up and Americans hate this so let's try Asia instead, quick- order a renovation."    Some of the concepts flopped, but the ships themselves were not flops, Royal did not go bankrupt, Royal did not go out of business, nor did any of the other doomsday predictions come to pass.  I sincerely doubt it will be much different with Edge.    Some concepts may be revised on Edge or as far as what is planned for the rest of the fleet, but it isn't going to cause Celebrity to fail like some would have you think.

Note in the CC News today the article on the new ultra quantum ships.  Spectrum of the Seas is being launched in a few months in Asia.  The Odyssey of the Sea will follow for the US market.  I think it will be a day pretty soon when Celebrity puts an Edge Class in Asia too.

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The problem I have with Celebrity is that thee will be no options of ships for a 7 day Caribbean when the Apex comes on line. 

The S class will only be for longer cruises, and the M class for shorter cruises as they are now. I'm not taking into account the price difference between classes of ships, only the availability. IMHO, that may cause a problem for Celebrity that they may have to rethink. Then there will be 2 other Edge class ships. I believe one will be in Asia, and the other in the Caribbean, maybe out of Miami, but what happens to the other ships then? I'm only guessing about Edge 3 and 4 of course.

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OUR HAPPY PLACE absolutely if we give them half a chance!! Hope some of you try it before condemning it! Positive feelings happen immediately.

 

Glad some are being helpful!

 

Edited by B-Rizzle

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7 hours ago, Airspeed said:

I've been reading the many replies this topic has generated. I might want to clarify my main gripe: Why change the entire fleet over to the new Edge format when you don't know yet how the market is reacting to the new concept? Is this not an excessive risk you are taking?

 

In terms of "bashing something I have not tried yet": I have been reading the reviews here, on Cruise Critic, and they did not come out too hot. I am gauging this compared to other reviews of ships I know (not that many, by the way, only the Oceania Riviera and the MSC Divina). And on average, there seems to be at best muted enthusiasm for the Edge.

 

Honestly, I think with the Edge it is a generational thing. I don’t think they have their target audience on the Edge yet. We are mid 40s and we were definitely on the young side onboard. The entertainment was aimed mostly at people our age and younger. 

 

We we stay in inside rooms, so I can’t speak to the IVs, but we loved our room and the ship. I could definitely see where those who are older than us wouldn’t enjoy the entertainment and possibly other things on the ship. 

 

We read the reviews, and based on those I thought it would suck, but for us it was fine. As I am writing my review I included my age and music tastes, so people can put my review into the proper perspective. 

 

I  have a hunch though that Celebrity won’t try to change the other ships too much, because I am guessing they want to keep their core guests and also add some younger cruisers too on the edge class. 

Edited by cgolf1

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1 hour ago, waterbug123 said:

 

Exactly- sending Quantum to Asia was not a sudden decision of  "oh my god we screwed up and Americans hate this so let's try Asia instead, quick- order a renovation."    Some of the concepts flopped, but the ships themselves were not flops, Royal did not go bankrupt, Royal did not go out of business, nor did any of the other doomsday predictions come to pass.  I sincerely doubt it will be much different with Edge.    Some concepts may be revised on Edge or as far as what is planned for the rest of the fleet, but it isn't going to cause Celebrity to fail like some would have you think.

 

misread, comment deleted

Edited by UnorigionalName

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59 minutes ago, deliver42 said:

The problem I have with Celebrity is that thee will be no options of ships for a 7 day Caribbean when the Apex comes on line. 

The S class will only be for longer cruises, and the M class for shorter cruises as they are now.

 

Sorry, but statements like the above bring out the spreadsheet analyst in me.

 

I just did a check of all of Celebrity's offerings of M-class sailings to the Caribbean between now and May of 2021, which is the furthest out I can currently look, and I'm not clear how you're claiming that M-class is only going to be for shorter cruises, or that that's how it is today. Assuming a similar November-ish launch for Apex as was done for Edge, what I'm seeing for this time period of almost two years is:

 

  • One 4-night itinerary
  • Ten 5-night itineraries; four of those after a presumed Apex launch of Nov 2020
  • One 6-night itinerary
  • Seventeen 7-night itineraries; nine of those after a presumed Apex launch of Nov 2020
  • One 10-night itinerary
  • One 11-night itinerary

So 31 sailings in total, and 17 of them (55%) are 7-night offerings. All of the 4-, 6-, 10-, and 11-night sailings are pre-Apex; and out of the sailings that are after Apex is expected, they're dominantly (69%) 7-night sailings.

 

If I look at M-class offerings worldwide, it skews much more heavily into the longer sailings over the same period. Out of 185 itineraries available between Feb 2019 and May 2021:

  • 22 (12%) are less than 7 nights
  • 32 (17%) are 7 nights
  • 66 (36%) are 9-13 nights
  • 65 (35%) are 14+ nights

Granted, the bulk of these are not from North America. But in the 7- to 10-night set you'll find the above Caribbean offerings, a bunch going to Alaska, plus sailings to Bermuda and the Bahamas.

 

So tell me again how M-class is only going to be for short (less than 7-night) sailings after Apex comes to town?

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I think I stumbled into a math class. I signed up for psych 101.  Sorry. 

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3 hours ago, cgolf1 said:

 

Honestly, I think with the Edge it is a generational thing. I don’t think they have their target audience on the Edge yet. We are mid 40s and we were definitely on the young side onboard. The entertainment was aimed mostly at people our age and younger. 

 

We we stay in inside rooms, so I can’t speak to the IVs, but we loved our room and the ship. I could definitely see where those who are older than us wouldn’t enjoy the entertainment and possibly other things on the ship. 

 

We read the reviews, and based on those I thought it would suck, but for us it was fine. As I am writing my review I included my age and music tastes, so people can put my review into the proper perspective. 

 

I  have a hunch though that Celebrity won’t try to change the other ships too much, because I am guessing they want to keep their core guests and also add some younger cruisers too on the edge class. 

Something that "young" people may realize as they get older is that people who are old are also here in the present and many of us have an appreciation for many of the same things that they do. The only difference is we also have an appreciation for the past because we were there.

 

I still work and have friends of all ages. I have 7 grandchildren and I may know more about the 16 to 20 year olds than you do because I'm interested in what they like.  I have children in their 40s and 50s and may know more about what they like than you do. Funny how that works. Hopefully when you get older you too will be "with it" .

Edited by Ma Bell

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11 minutes ago, Ma Bell said:

Something that "young" people may realize as they get older is that people who are old are also here in the present and many of us have an appreciation for many of the same things that they do. The only difference is we also have an appreciation for the past because we were there.

 

I still work and have friends of all ages. I have 7 grandchildren and I may know more about the 16 to 20 year olds than you do because I'm interested in what they like.  I have children in their 40s and 50s and may know more about what they like than you do. Funny how that works. Hopefully when you get older you too will be "with it" .

 

I think you missed my point or took it the wrong way. I don’t expect my parents to like music by owl city, Bruno Mars, hip hop, etc. You could tell a huge difference in the crowds reaction to the current pop music shows onboard, many left the guest entertainers show and no standing ovation, and I realize that some of us just like music new and old, but it was clear by the crowds reaction that many of the songs were a miss. When the Frankie Vallie tribute band played, the crowd was really into it the whole time and gave them a standing ovation. They were good singers, but not at the level of those on board. The thing they did is they played songs that a majority of the crowd were into, My wife didn’t know some of the songs, but I knew them all from my dad listening to them and while I thought it was a really good performance it wasn’t my favorite. 

 

In fact on the Edge we heard many times someone tell another who was new to Celebrity to not judge Celebrity by the Edge, and we did talk with some couples when the opportunity presented itself. 

 

So I don’t need to be lectured as I have a college aged daughter and obviously we appreciate our past too, except the bits I want to forget;)

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This thread is about privileged and complicates things! Seriously, no PIANO in a suite? No, we need to worry about more inclusion and equity for People of Color and LGBT community than MUSIC.

 

Right??

 

I really do feel like Lisa Lutoff-Perlo and Kelly Hoppen and especially Patricia Urquiola get nothing but mansplaining about this and that design. I’m sure you don’t get it but hey it's one more glass ceiling against the patriarchy.

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2 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

This thread is about privileged and complicates things! Seriously, no PIANO in a suite? No, we need to worry about more inclusion and equity for People of Color and LGBT community than MUSIC.

 

Right??

 

I really do feel like Lisa Lutoff-Perlo and Kelly Hoppen and especially Patricia Urquiola get nothing but mansplaining about this and that design. I’m sure you don’t get it but hey it's one more glass ceiling against the patriarchy.

 

Actually I am missing your point, Celebrty embraces everyone which is really awesome:) Captain Kate is set to be on the edge soon. So I thought this was about defending the Edge and on some level Celebrity? From my standpoint it is only defending the Edge because that is my only Celebrity Cruise at this point. 

 

The entertainment example I gave is how Celebrity is trying to attract cruisers younger than I to help expand their brand with the edge. 

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7 minutes ago, cgolf1 said:

 

Actually I am missing your point, Celebrty embraces everyone which is really awesome:) Captain Kate is set to be on the edge soon. So I thought this was about defending the Edge and on some level Celebrity? From my standpoint it is only defending the Edge because that is my only Celebrity Cruise at this point. 

 

The entertainment example I gave is how Celebrity is trying to attract cruisers younger than I to help expand their brand with the edge. 

 

Exactly - unpredictable posts coming in for sure complicates who I was really responding to!!

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On 2/2/2019 at 9:58 AM, Airspeed said:

I have had my third Celebrity cruise in December, the last two cruises were in a Penthouse suite on the Millenium-class Summit, prior to that we were in a Royal Suite.

We both (my wife and I) really liked the Summit, and though we felt the Royal Suite was dark, dated, and definitely can use an upgrade, loved the Penthouse suite to death! Wooden Parquet flooring, Yamaha C1 grand piano (I play), gigantic balcony, and so on...

 

From everything I read the Edge looks close to a concept disaster. Yet Celebrity, without testing the market perception of its new concept, has decided to go full blown and "Edgesize" its entire fleet. The Penthouse Suite will be forever ruined on the Summit.

 

This reminds me of the CueCat, that innovative bar code scanner that ended up being on or IT's worst marketing disasters. The difference: It was free. The Edge is not. In fact,she carries a premium.

 

This whole horror show has prompted me to  look at other suites on other cruise lines, such as Holland America's Pinnacle Suite, or the Royal Caribbean Royal Suite. I would have never done so had I now known that the Penthouse was going to be ruined.

 

In my opinion, Celebrity is shooting itself in the foot...

Check out Princess Grand suites, Owner’s suites and the new Sky suites.  Around $500 give or take  pp/pd for the itineraries those in academia can go on whilst still working. Less for vista or window suites.  Amazing square footage- 600 to 1600 sq ft including balcony (not window suites).  Best perk is NO BUTLER and for the most part few and well behaved children on Princess ships in general. 

 

There is a lot of information on the Princess board about their suites. 

 

We sailed Celebrity last December in an Aqua stateroom. While we loved Blu we hated how small the room and balcony was. (And no closed private drawers in the night stands only open shelves yucko !!)

 

 at any rate   We simply can not get anything close to the square footage on Celebrity that we can get on Princess for the $1000 a day for the two of us we are willing to spend.  

 

I routinely check Princess, Cunard, Oceania (they come close but haven’t yet found the right itinerary for the right price at the right time). Sailed Cunard but again for the max price of $1000 per day for both of us  just can’t seem to elevate into the rooms the size of our Princess suites.   

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9 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

OUR HAPPY PLACE absolutely if we give them half a chance!! Hope some of you try it before condemning it! Positive feelings happen immediately.

 

Glad some are being helpful!

 

Do yourself a favor and quit posting here, troll. Your fake EDGE review was already removed by the moderators. Go somewhere else. You've never even sailed Celebrity or any other cruise probably for that matter. 

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