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Is Celebrity shooting itself in the foot?

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5 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

This thread is about privileged and complicates things! Seriously, no PIANO in a suite? No, we need to worry about more inclusion and equity for People of Color and LGBT community than MUSIC.

 

Right??

 

I really do feel like Lisa Lutoff-Perlo and Kelly Hoppen and especially Patricia Urquiola get nothing but mansplaining about this and that design. I’m sure you don’t get it but hey it's one more glass ceiling against the patriarchy.

 

Huh?

 

There aint no conspiracy. People discuss their preferences, and whether changes are appealing to them. Nothing more complicated than that.

Edited by The_Big_M

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12 hours ago, deliver42 said:

The problem I have with Celebrity is that thee will be no options of ships for a 7 day Caribbean when the Apex comes on line.... IMHO, that may cause a problem for Celebrity that they may have to rethink.

 

A year or two ago we looked at doing a 7 night Caribbean on Celebrity during the summer and there was little to nothing available.  Most of their ships were in Europe or Alaska for the summer; they focused their Caribbean itineraries on the winter months.  They don't have as many ships as Royal or Carnival, and even with more ships, no cruise line can offer every itinerary on every date that someone might want, let alone offer it on every ship class.  They make decisions based on where their market research says they can be most profitable overall.    If it is true that once Apex is out, X will NEVER offer 7 night Caribbean cruises (that's a big IF) one of two things will happen:  Either they'll find that the itineraries they are offering are quite profitable and nothing will change, or they'll determine that adjusting itineraries to offer a 7 day Carib will be better than some other itinerary they're doing and they'll make the change.  Whatever they do, they will never please everyone, just as they don't currently.   But pleasing  everyone isn't their goal.  😉

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I was looking at Caribbean cruises from Fl after the Apex comes out. Not Europe, Alaska, or anywhere else. 

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8 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Check out Princess Grand suites, Owner’s suites and the new Sky suites.  Around $500 give or take  pp/pd for the itineraries those in academia can go on whilst still working. Less for vista or window suites.  Amazing square footage- 600 to 1600 sq ft including balcony (not window suites).  Best perk is NO BUTLER and for the most part few and well behaved children on Princess ships in general. 

 

There is a lot of information on the Princess board about their suites. 

 

We sailed Celebrity last December in an Aqua stateroom. While we loved Blu we hated how small the room and balcony was. (And no closed private drawers in the night stands only open shelves yucko !!)

 

 at any rate   We simply can not get anything close to the square footage on Celebrity that we can get on Princess for the $1000 a day for the two of us we are willing to spend.  

 

I routinely check Princess, Cunard, Oceania (they come close but haven’t yet found the right itinerary for the right price at the right time). Sailed Cunard but again for the max price of $1000 per day for both of us  just can’t seem to elevate into the rooms the size of our Princess suites.   

Will do, thanks for the constructive advice!!!

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I don't understand the debate here. There will be more Celebrity ships overall as Edge Class is being launched.  More Celebrity ships of all types to serve the Caribbean in winter.  It is the major market.  There will be E-Class, S-Class and M-Class there all at the same time.  As well as hundreds of ships from other lines at all price points.  Everybody and anybody can likely find the perfect Caribbean cruise for their needs and budget if willing to do a bit of research (or use a travel agent).

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On 2/2/2019 at 6:14 PM, First family said:

I am certainly hoping for great service on the Summit. My expectations are high when I pay $$$$$. I’ve noticed a large scale decline of service in all cruise lines lately, enough so that I nearly didn’t book this cruise on the Summit. I nearly gave up cruising all together. 

Summit is great! Service is outstanding! Enjoy!!

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6 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I don't understand the debate here. There will be more Celebrity ships overall as Edge Class is being launched.  More Celebrity ships of all types to serve the Caribbean in winter.  It is the major market.  There will be E-Class, S-Class and M-Class there all at the same time.  As well as hundreds of ships from other lines at all price points.  Everybody and anybody can likely find the perfect Caribbean cruise for their needs and budget if willing to do a bit of research (or use a travel agent).

 

I think the debate is because the Edge is the super new "premium"-but-not-luxury-so-somewhat-affordable-to-many-people cruise ship with many cool new features and a lot of people are unhappy that it seems to not fill their needs.  For the past couple decades, every new ship seems to have gotten nicer and cooler and modern with cool features and every new ship line was exciting to see and be on.  But now, a lot of people who make up a good portion of the board and a good portion of passengers who are willing to pay premiums to go on the newest ships, are worried that it is targeted at a different, younger, population.

 

The hype on the ship was pretty huge compared to most new ship lines.  It has a lot of unusual features.  People on this forum are worried that this is the start of the future.  They are worried that new exciting ship lines won't be targeted at them anymore.  They want to go on coolest new ships and don't want to be stuck going to the same old thing and are worried that the industry is overlooking them.

 

They hope the Edge fails and that things go back to the way they know and love.  They hope the music never changes.  They are satisfied with the staid old cruise food.  They want good old-fashioned service.  They, like every generation before and after them, feel that they are the most "correct" and older people are too traditional, and younger people are too unruly and poor with poor tastes.

Edited by UnorigionalName

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Right? Change isn't for everyone but those of us that want something new and young think it is AWESOME!

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5 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

I think the debate is because the Edge is the super new "premium"-but-not-luxury-so-somewhat-affordable-to-many-people cruise ship with many cool new features and a lot of people are unhappy that it seems to not fill their needs.  For the past couple decades, every new ship seems to have gotten nicer and cooler and modern with cool features and every new ship line was exciting to see and be on.  But now, a lot of people who make up a good portion of the board and a good portion of passengers who are willing to pay premiums to go on the newest ships, are worried that it is targeted at a different, younger, population.

 

The hype on the ship was pretty huge compared to most new ship lines.  It has a lot of unusual features.  People on this forum are worried that this is the start of the future.  They are worried that new exciting ship lines won't be targeted at them anymore.  They want to go on coolest new ships and don't want to be stuck going to the same old thing and are worried that the industry is overlooking them.

 

They hope the Edge fails and that things go back to the way they know and love.  They hope the music never changes.  They are satisfied with the staid old cruise food.  They want good old-fashioned service.  They, like every generation before and after them, feel that they are the most "correct" and older people are too traditional, and younger people are too unruly and poor with poor tastes.

 

I truly hope it succeeds. That said we likely will never book above an oceanview, but it is a great ship sailed from an inside room and the live music on the ship, theater, rooftop garden, grand plaza, Eden, etc was amazing. The food was the best we have had on a ship and we didn’t do any specialty restaurants. 

Edited by cgolf1

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6 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

Right? Change isn't for everyone but those of us that want something new and young think it is AWESOME!

Was it as awesome as the fake review of you pretending to have been on the Edge only to have the moderators remove your fake review?  What is it that you are trying to achieve by bragging up the Edge and lying to people on this forum every day? Nobody wants an opinion of a liar and someone purposely misleading people like yourself. Why don't you tell people again that you didn't notice the sewage smell on the Edge ..... That you've never been on.  :classic_rolleyes:

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There may be a reason why Edge and the Revolution is so polarizing.  We thought it was built for Millennials, but apparently not:

 

www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2018/11/30/billion-dollar-cruise-ship-celebrity-edge-launch-women/amp/#ampf=undefined

 

I'm not into political games, just hire the best person for the job.  Judging by the reviews (most of which appear to be female), the flawed designs concepts and out of touch shops, I'd say this strategy is failing.  Worst of all, it makes a mockery of what they were trying to achieve.

 

I'm out.  There's fake cheerleaders on here who've never sailed X, or perhaps any cruise, they can have my cabins.

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Some of those comments are just ridiculous: "If society is 50/50, then everywhere you go it should be 50/50. "

 

So they also have a target of 24% crew members under 18, and 13%  of the crew over 65 then. Amongst many other proportional representations. Right...

 

That's not to say there isn't some merit to the objective, but with that as a justification... Really???

 

And "So, we didn’t replace our plastic water bottles so that we would put less plastic water bottles in the world, because we’re zero landfill. We incinerate everything. "

 

What the? Aside from being very harmful to the environment, that's also not aligned with what their crew including their Environmental Officer state. Guess somebody's lying...

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3 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

There may be a reason why Edge and the Revolution is so polarizing.  We thought it was built for Millennials, but apparently not:

 

www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2018/11/30/billion-dollar-cruise-ship-celebrity-edge-launch-women/amp/#ampf=undefined

 

I'm not into political games, just hire the best person for the job.  Judging by the reviews (most of which appear to be female), the flawed designs concepts and out of touch shops, I'd say this strategy is failing.  Worst of all, it makes a mockery of what they were trying to achieve.

 

I'm out.  There's fake cheerleaders on here who've never sailed X, or perhaps any cruise, they can have my cabins.

 

We just did our first X cruise on the Edge and overall liked the ship and the experience. Honestly based on what we are reading on threads like this we are starting to think the other X ships might not be for us. 

 

I do agree that the shops suck. We generally like to get family stuff like playing cards etc, but instead their selling 55$ t-shirts. When I get to the end of my review I will have a pretty big list of hits and misses with the Edge. I just hope they continue to make changes on the next E class ships to address some of the concerns many are having. 

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16 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

I think the debate is because the Edge is the super new "premium"-but-not-luxury-so-somewhat-affordable-to-many-people cruise ship with many cool new features and a lot of people are unhappy that it seems to not fill their needs.  For the past couple decades, every new ship seems to have gotten nicer and cooler and modern with cool features and every new ship line was exciting to see and be on.  But now, a lot of people who make up a good portion of the board and a good portion of passengers who are willing to pay premiums to go on the newest ships, are worried that it is targeted at a different, younger, population.

 

The hype on the ship was pretty huge compared to most new ship lines.  It has a lot of unusual features.  People on this forum are worried that this is the start of the future.  They are worried that new exciting ship lines won't be targeted at them anymore.  They want to go on coolest new ships and don't want to be stuck going to the same old thing and are worried that the industry is overlooking them.

 

They hope the Edge fails and that things go back to the way they know and love.  They hope the music never changes.  They are satisfied with the staid old cruise food.  They want good old-fashioned service.  They, like every generation before and after them, feel that they are the most "correct" and older people are too traditional, and younger people are too unruly and poor with poor tastes.

 

Good perspective and insight.  After sailing Edge I can say that it is different but the service and food are exceptional.  I have really not seen arguments to counter that observation from those who have sailed on Edge so far.  So the objections by some have been IV cabins, expense of cabins, and loud music at some venues on the ship.  And modern technology. Yes it is not your grandfather's Oldsmobile.  (My grandfather bought an Olds' every three years when I was a kid!).  But why would Celebrity spend a billion dollars on Edge and E-Class ships and not build them for future demographics whatever name you want to call them?  The people who are cruise traditionalists have plenty of choices suited to them other than Edge even on Celebrity.  I personally love M-Class and look forward to the freshly renovated versions.  GM moved on from Oldsmobile.

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17 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

I think the debate is because the Edge is the super new "premium"-but-not-luxury-so-somewhat-affordable-to-many-people cruise ship with many cool new features and a lot of people are unhappy that it seems to not fill their needs.  For the past couple decades, every new ship seems to have gotten nicer and cooler and modern with cool features and every new ship line was exciting to see and be on.  But now, a lot of people who make up a good portion of the board and a good portion of passengers who are willing to pay premiums to go on the newest ships, are worried that it is targeted at a different, younger, population.

 

The hype on the ship was pretty huge compared to most new ship lines.  It has a lot of unusual features.  People on this forum are worried that this is the start of the future.  They are worried that new exciting ship lines won't be targeted at them anymore.  They want to go on coolest new ships and don't want to be stuck going to the same old thing and are worried that the industry is overlooking them.

 

They hope the Edge fails and that things go back to the way they know and love.  They hope the music never changes.  They are satisfied with the staid old cruise food.  They want good old-fashioned service.  They, like every generation before and after them, feel that they are the most "correct" and older people are too traditional, and younger people are too unruly and poor with poor tastes.

I would continue to stress that the positioning of The Edge is not necessarily to a YOUNGER demographic but to those that either have not sailed before because of what the perceived traditional cruiseship experiences are and/or those that are looking for a more modern and design focused vacation experience similar to land based resorts. 

People here continue to focus on the age aspect and that's simply not correct. You can go to high end land based resorts and world class cities such as NY, SF, Paris, London, etc. and see people of ALL AGES enjoy a leisure activity, whether that's dining, lodging, shopping, or entertainment that's similar to the experiences that Celebrity had in mind for The Edge. Whether their effort is successful is a totally different discussion. I'm 57 years old and I enjoyed all the new experiences that The Edge has brought to cruising. So to summarize, it's not just targeting age, but a certain lifestyle.    

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10 minutes ago, kwokpot said:

I would continue to stress that the positioning of The Edge is not necessarily to a YOUNGER demographic but to those that either have not sailed before because of what the perceived traditional cruiseship experiences are and/or those that are looking for a more modern and design focused vacation experience similar to land based resorts. 

People here continue to focus on the age aspect and that's simply not correct. You can go to high end land based resorts and world class cities such as NY, SF, Paris, London, etc. and see people of ALL AGES enjoy a leisure activity, whether that's dining, lodging, shopping, or entertainment that's similar to the experiences that Celebrity had in mind for The Edge. Whether their effort is successful is a totally different discussion. I'm 57 years old and I enjoyed all the new experiences that The Edge has brought to cruising. So to summarize, it's not just targeting age, but a certain lifestyle.    

 

 

I agree about the "Lifestyle" but I do have to wonder if  downgrading the accessibility options for scooters and handicap passengers is a passive aggressive attempt and eliminating a certain demographic from Edge.

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On 2/6/2019 at 8:51 AM, deliver42 said:

I was looking at Caribbean cruises from Fl after the Apex comes out. Not Europe, Alaska, or anywhere else. 

 

I understand that.  I was simply pointing out that even prior to Apex, Celebrity has at times had a limited focus on the Caribbean at certain times of the year. 

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2 hours ago, kwokpot said:

I would continue to stress that the positioning of The Edge is not necessarily to a YOUNGER demographic but to those that either have not sailed before because of what the perceived traditional cruiseship experiences are and/or those that are looking for a more modern and design focused vacation experience similar to land based resorts. 

People here continue to focus on the age aspect and that's simply not correct. You can go to high end land based resorts and world class cities such as NY, SF, Paris, London, etc. and see people of ALL AGES enjoy a leisure activity, whether that's dining, lodging, shopping, or entertainment that's similar to the experiences that Celebrity had in mind for The Edge. Whether their effort is successful is a totally different discussion. I'm 57 years old and I enjoyed all the new experiences that The Edge has brought to cruising. So to summarize, it's not just targeting age, but a certain lifestyle.    

 

Honestly I think it’s a little of both. The music in the shows and around the ship was very current pop music with the exception of two main shows. We liked them all. 

 

I guess to me it felt like a traditional cruise, just on a different ship. In fact this felt even more like a cruise with the higher windows in the oceanview and solarium and all of the outer loungers facing the water. We always thought it was colossally stupid for other lines like Disney to have the outer loungers face in. Being out on the Magic Carpet at sea really makes drives the I am sailing on the ocean. I think we spent more time outdoors on this cruise than any other. 

 

Yeh the design is different, but so was Disney being a bit of a throwback to a classic design and RCCL with the internal promenade. 

 

I don’t believe I was a fan because I have refined tastes. We have been known to stay at a best western because the price was right;)

Edited by cgolf1

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22 hours ago, Cruise Junky said:

 

 

I agree about the "Lifestyle" but I do have to wonder if  downgrading the accessibility options for scooters and handicap passengers is a passive aggressive attempt and eliminating a certain demographic from Edge.

Wow that is quite a presumption!  Do you really wonder about that?  Conspiracy theory? Loads of scooters on Edge when I was on it a couple of weeks ago.  I have seen the post about the pool lift being inadequate and the lack of access to the Rooftop.  But there were a number of mobility-friendly areas too.  On the other hand people on this board were also complaining about the large number of handicap bathrooms on Edge with very slow closing doors.    These things are fixable on a new ship.  Not a grand plot against the mobility impaired on Celebrity.  

Edited by TeeRick

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1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Wow that is quite a presumption!  Do you really wonder about that?  Conspiracy theory? Loads of scooters on Edge when I was on it a couple of weeks ago.  I have seen the post about the pool lift being inadequate and the lack of access to the Rooftop.  But there were a number of mobility-friendly areas too.  On the other hand people on this board were also complaining about the large number of handicap bathrooms on Edge with very slow closing doors.    These things are fixable on a new ship.  Not a grand plot against the mobility impaired on Celebrity.  

I didn’t presume anything. I wondered. You have to admit access to the pools is a pretty big oversight and a tiny elevator to Eden that a scooter can’t turn around in all on their hip and modern new ship. 

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Some people will be left behind in the new X look and pricing.  They might wind up at Princess or RC.  Reading through the posts (in general) is that not everyone drinks, gambles, goes for a massage or does specialty restaurants  (huge profit makers) - they just sit on the ship very happy in the MDR.  That leaves X (or anybody) with limited ways to make incremental revenue.  X mgt really don't get upset if those people do not like the new look and dont come back - they weren't profitable customers anyway

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On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 2:16 PM, Airspeed said:

 

The good news is that cruising will be cheaper over all, because of excess capacity...

I think you have your wisher wound up pretty high.  Royal is continuing to build the behemoth Oasis class ships and all these years later still selling them at a premium.  And they are selling full.  Me?  I have yet to find a reason to step foot on one of them because I like the connection to the sea.  I'm afraid I must be in the minority though because I am happy on a smaller ship and sitting staring at the sun play off the waves.  The clientele they are trying to collect are Gen X or Millennials who want bigger, better, faster. 

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18 hours ago, tfred said:

Some people will be left behind in the new X look and pricing.  They might wind up at Princess or RC.  Reading through the posts (in general) is that not everyone drinks, gambles, goes for a massage or does specialty restaurants  (huge profit makers) - they just sit on the ship very happy in the MDR.  That leaves X (or anybody) with limited ways to make incremental revenue.  X mgt really don't get upset if those people do not like the new look and dont come back - they weren't profitable customers anyway

 

I recall reading or hearing something once, I believe from an industry executive, that said in general, cruise lines cover their overhead with cabin fares.  The onboard expenditures are how they make an actual profit.   I'm sure it's not exactly that cut and dried, but you get the gist.

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On 2/2/2019 at 2:56 PM, ipeeinthepool said:

 

I agree reed with you 100%.   The Edge concept was poorly executed an wont be appealing to many passengers.  It will continue to command a premium for a while just because it’s a new ship and there are many passengers that don’t understand the details.  But prices will drop significantly because they will not get the same level of return cruisers as they expected.

Prices are not dropping yet but the "perks" and on board credits are already there.  Sailed Edge, not our cup of tea at all.  Loved the larger cabins, bathrooms and color schemes but overall, not our "idea" of a Celebrity product.  Too drastic to quickly.  AND she does not sail full.  Hoping they can take the comments and criticism and use it for their future builds.

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On 2/4/2019 at 6:12 PM, villauk said:

 

 

I agree: would I want to spend all the extra they are asking for Edge for a glorified oceanview - no!  That’s the big error in my view that X have made. Would I have perhaps considered the ship if there were proper balconies at a reasonable rate for a new ship....now this would have been more likely. It’s more about the concept of the living space on Edge than what Royal have done with their new builds: public space and gimmicks that you can walk away from if you so wish and spend time on you balcony. Whereas X have decided pax don’t want the conventional balcony anymore, even though the likes of Viking who have a history with the IV concept on their river cruise vessels obviously thought that it wasn’t what pax wanted on their new ocean liners.

 

And for those that keep saying how can you comment if you’ve never tried it, that’s the point, I have no wish to try an oceanview with a drop-down window for the extortionate prices they are asking. I believe I’m not on my own from many of the comments on here either. Many pax want a proper balcony if they pay for a balcony cabin. Look at the reviews from the hosts on CC who have cruised Edge already: their first stop was GS to get upgraded to a suite. Many of the pax with the very positive reviews have also sailed in the suites on Edge or got their sailing free from the casino offers. Tells me everything. 

Right on!  Have sailed in the IV balcony cabin and it is NOT a balcony and should be re-marketed as cabin with a large window that opens.  However they want to spin it, we experienced it and it is NOT a balcony.  Loved the decor, larger cabin, larger bathroom but will never sail another Edge class because of those windows.

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