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CoyoteDreemurr

Help! No passport, no birth certificate!

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12 hours ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

 soooo, I guess mom doesn't want to use her original BC for this cruise, like PP said in post #153?

 

 

 

She lost her original BC, which she was able to use on her first 3 cruises. She was on a Carnival cruise when she was about 18-19 years old. I'm assuming she needed it for that cruise. The last 2 cruises were both Princess cruises. 

Edited by CoyoteDreemurr

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3 hours ago, CoyoteDreemurr said:

She lost her original BC, which she was able to use on her first 3 cruises. She was on a Carnival cruise when she was about 18-19 years old. I'm assuming she needed it for that cruise. The last 2 cruises were both Princess cruises. 


But why hasn't she gotten a new official copy of her original birth certificate?

THAT is the problem that we all have with this whole thing.  I simply cannot believe that she can't go to the county clerk's office where she was born and get a copy of the original, differently-spelled birth certificate.  

This story has changed and taken so many different turns since the original post.  But the fact of the matter is that she was issued a birth certificate originally, and she is able to obtain that birth certificate now but she doesn't want to because it's not spelled the way she wants it to be spelled. 

I'd much rather go on a cruise with a differently-spelled birth certificate than stay home alone all week!!!!

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The problem is that she needs ID with the original spelling to prove she is the person asking for it.  And all of her ID has the different spelling.  EM

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2 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

The problem is that she needs ID with the original spelling to prove she is the person asking for it.  And all of her ID has the different spelling.  EM

 

There are other ways to prove who you are.

 

Vital Check has a lot of questions they ask to determine if you are you.  And they have info that I had a hard time remembering.

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5 hours ago, SRF said:

 

There are other ways to prove who you are.

 

Vital Check has a lot of questions they ask to determine if you are you.  And they have info that I had a hard time remembering.


I've done verification processes like that, where they were asking things like which address I had previously lived at from a list of addresses.... the problem was, the options were something like:

  • 122 Main Street
  • 442 Chicago Street
  • 646 Foster Street
  • 885 Capital Street
  • 648 Foster Street

And the street I lived on BACK IN THE MID 1990s was one of the two Foster Street addresses and it was in an apartment complex that I only lived in for six months and for the life of me I couldn't remember which street number was the correct one!!!! 

If the options had been between 646 Foster Street and 838 Foster Street or 1086 Foster, it would have been a no-brainer, or I could have looked them up on Google Maps and figured out which number it was.  Or if I had actually lived there long enough to have a bunch of mail at that address, etc.  Or if I had actually purchased a house instead of just renting.  But two numbers right next to each other in an apartment complex of multiple buildings that all looked alike and can't be differentiated via Google Maps.... I was sweating bullets!

I must have picked properly, though, because I passed the verification process!  😄

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3 hours ago, brillohead said:


I've done verification processes like that, where they were asking things like which address I had previously lived at from a list of addresses.... the problem was, the options were something like:

 

I've been through that a couple of times.  You don't have to answer all the questions correctly.  I've been asked several times if I knew XXX.YYY.   I always answered no.  Then, I finally figured out that was my ex-wife's new married name.  It's not like we continue to exchange Christmas cards.  In fact, I haven't spoken to her in 25 years.

 

Edited by RocketMan275

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6 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I've been through that a couple of times.  You don't have to answer all the questions correctly.  I've been asked several times if I knew XXX.YYY.   I always answered no.  Then, I finally figured out that was my ex-wife's new married name.  It's not like we continue to exchange Christmas cards.  In fact, I haven't spoken to her in 25 years.

 

Wow! They do dig deep!

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14 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

The problem is that she needs ID with the original spelling to prove she is the person asking for it.  And all of her ID has the different spelling.  EM


Actually, I don't think that "fact" was ever established by the OP.  

I'm not going to bother going back and reading this whole entire drama-filled thread, but my recollection was that this all started because the OP's mom was denied a passport b/c the birth certificate she sent in didn't match the name she wanted on the passport. 

Rather than go through the steps to validate and verify her identity under the alternate spelling (which several other people here have claimed they were able to do themselves), and rather than going through the process of having a legal name change done through the courts, they wanted the county clerk to issue the mom a birth certificate with the preferred spelling on it. That's my understanding of why they were "denied a birth certificate" -- not because her current ID doesn't match the original name exactly, but because the family wanted it issued the preferred way, not the original name.

That's why I said, time and time again, that the mom should get a copy of her original birth certificate, her marriage license, and her driver license and just travel with that combination.  A birth certificate for Margaret Jones and a marriage license for Peggy Jones becoming Peggy Smith and a driver license for Peggy Smith is going to satisfy the cruise line at the beginning of the cruise and it's going to satisfy Customs and Border Patrol at the end of the cruise.

The ONLY entity that is being persnickety about the birth certificate name matching the preferred name is the Passport Office.  Nobody else.

The mom has cruised multiple times before with the original birth certificate and her driver license, and for a USA-based closed-loop cruise, she could do that again.  Mom could go on the cruise, then when she gets home she could either do the documentation validation verification process for why her name is spelled differently than on her birth certificate, or she could go through the courts and get a legal name change for a couple hundred dollars.

If I've remembered something wrong, feel free to point it out.  But I've put these theories up multiple times and the OP has never once denied anything I've said, and in fact agreed with me that the documents are all the same name, just different spelling variants of that name. 

 

I believe that the differences are even less extreme than the "Margaret vs Peggy" example I've used throughout this thread -- it's more likely to be something like "Marguerite vs Margaret" or "Margaret vs Margret" or "Marjorie vs Marge".  

If Mom presents to the cruise line or to Border Patrol with documents with the same basic name and the same exact date of birth and the relevant bridging documents, she won't have any problems at all for a USA-based closed-loop cruise.

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8 hours ago, brillohead said:


Actually, I don't think that "fact" was ever established by the OP.  


That's why I said, time and time again, that the mom should get a copy of her original birth certificate, her marriage license, and her driver license and just travel with that combination.  A birth certificate for Margaret Jones and a marriage license for Peggy Jones becoming Peggy Smith and a driver license for Peggy Smith is going to satisfy the cruise line at the beginning of the cruise and it's going to satisfy Customs and Border Patrol at the end of the cruise.

I'm not sure it's that simple.  You've assumed there is a 'bridging document'.  Suppose:

Name on B/C is Anna Marie Johnson.

Name on marriage license is Ann Marie Johnson becoming Ann Marie Smith.

Name on D/L matches marriage license.

Where's the bridge?

 

You're also assuming that it is the Passport Office that is being picky.  

However, things have changed since 9/11 and Customs and Border Patrol may be just as picky.

 

Whether she can go on this cruise is irrelevant, she needs to clean this up and that requires a court order to change her name to the one she prefers.

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10 hours ago, brillohead said:


Actually, I don't think that "fact" was ever established by the OP.  

I'm not going to bother going back and reading this whole entire drama-filled thread, but my recollection was that this all started because the OP's mom was denied a passport b/c the birth certificate she sent in didn't match the name she wanted on the passport. 

Rather than go through the steps to validate and verify her identity under the alternate spelling (which several other people here have claimed they were able to do themselves), and rather than going through the process of having a legal name change done through the courts, they wanted the county clerk to issue the mom a birth certificate with the preferred spelling on it. That's my understanding of why they were "denied a birth certificate" -- not because her current ID doesn't match the original name exactly, but because the family wanted it issued the preferred way, not the original name.

That's why I said, time and time again, that the mom should get a copy of her original birth certificate, her marriage license, and her driver license and just travel with that combination.  A birth certificate for Margaret Jones and a marriage license for Peggy Jones becoming Peggy Smith and a driver license for Peggy Smith is going to satisfy the cruise line at the beginning of the cruise and it's going to satisfy Customs and Border Patrol at the end of the cruise.

The ONLY entity that is being persnickety about the birth certificate name matching the preferred name is the Passport Office.  Nobody else.

The mom has cruised multiple times before with the original birth certificate and her driver license, and for a USA-based closed-loop cruise, she could do that again.  Mom could go on the cruise, then when she gets home she could either do the documentation validation verification process for why her name is spelled differently than on her birth certificate, or she could go through the courts and get a legal name change for a couple hundred dollars.

If I've remembered something wrong, feel free to point it out.  But I've put these theories up multiple times and the OP has never once denied anything I've said, and in fact agreed with me that the documents are all the same name, just different spelling variants of that name. 

 

I believe that the differences are even less extreme than the "Margaret vs Peggy" example I've used throughout this thread -- it's more likely to be something like "Marguerite vs Margaret" or "Margaret vs Margret" or "Marjorie vs Marge".  

If Mom presents to the cruise line or to Border Patrol with documents with the same basic name and the same exact date of birth and the relevant bridging documents, she won't have any problems at all for a USA-based closed-loop cruise.

 

Much of what you posted in NOT what occurred.

 

She did not have her BC (lost).  She could not get a new one, because the name on her BC is not the name she went by.  She did not have a passport, and could not get one without the BC.

 

The issue that was not resolved was whether she could have gotten a BC in her legal name (and then  a passport in that name) or whether, due to the difference in names, she could not get a copy of her BC at all.

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1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

Much of what you posted in NOT what occurred.

 

She did not have her BC (lost).  She could not get a new one, because the name on her BC is not the name she went by.  She did not have a passport, and could not get one without the BC.

 

The issue that was not resolved was whether she could have gotten a BC in her legal name (and then  a passport in that name) or whether, due to the difference in names, she could not get a copy of her BC at all.

I just went through the online process to order a copy of my B/C through the state where I was born.  A simple on-line form.  There was no requirement to prove my identity. 

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