One Main Course

[Hawaiidan]

On 3/21/2019 at 6:07 AM, Aquahound said:

 

Having cruised both lines, I can say that despite what the formal nights are called, black tie apparel still seems to be more abundant on HAL than on Princess.  

 

I thank that is due to the demographics that are attracted.  True there are a fair number that think other  things, however, I think  how people dress is a based on when, how and where they were raised and by who.    Environment shapes us, as Darwin observed.  Black tie dress, formal dress is still the gold standard for formal events,   Just look at the academy awards,  things like that.   You do not have to agree but  to date it remains  firmly in place, .   Maybe not on cruise ships,  but the world in general.

[Hawaiidan]

4 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

Cheap and chintzy is the final impression.  Not a good look for a premium company.  

 

No.....But  I hate to break  the news....HAL  is  a nice mass market ship ...not a Premium    Premium would be Azamar, Oceania Viking Ocean.      Take a quick look at  what these lines include  and then what HAL included.      Premiums are not nickel dime cost plus items    Better yet sail one of those lines and get blown away by the difference      .

[cruzin4us]

22 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

You know...I think your on to something.  And think, each evening your saving $10 !!!    Thats $70 a week !!!.    Maybe the ship just stays tied up too....and you can call Grub Hub and have your choice of local restaurants deliver to your cabin !!!!   

 

Ha.....but it's really $70 x 2 = $140  

 

I've been looking at some pictures (live on Eurodam) and the portions have gotten so small, HAL is forcing you to order another entree.     Even the crab cakes are the size of the cherry tomatoes....my DH was laughing at them!

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

36 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

Club Orange.....Ha....  I think they need to name it  something  really silly    "  MYSTIC KNIGHTS OF THE SEA"....if you remember  that  you will remember the King Fish too.       Do Club Orange members get to wear an orange sash while on  deck so that they will be distinguished from the other common rabble..      Then people could take a selfie with them and show it to all their friends and tell about the special experience.................. My goodness.

 

Well, my cabin steward told me it was a move to make Neptune and Pinnacle Suite passengers feel special. So there you go. I was special! People who buy into CO do get a different (and very nice) tote bag, which could be a way of showing off. Suites don't get this; they get the regular cheap blue one.  I can imagine the conversation. "Where did you get that nice Holland America totebag?" "Oh, I paid fifty bucks a day for it." 

 

"Orange" is meant to refer to the House of Orange, the royal family of the Netherlands. 

[richstowe]

4 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

 

Well said.

 

Your analysis is similar to a current thread on the Celebrity board - on nostalgia - ie when Celebrity was the best of the mass lines. 

 

Cruising 2019 on a mass cruise line is a far cry from the originating days of cruising up to about 2010 when the original model died. Yeh, it is all about change, heard that before, and on, and on.

 

But there are many vacation options out there, cruising is just one of them. You can explore other ways of seeing the world.

 

What a pathetic, cheap move by HAL but all part of the downward spiral of mass cruising.

A lot to agree with for the entire cruise industry ,not just HAL . It does seem there is a never ending series of cuts but offsetting this is affordable balconies, better and more varied entertainment , less smoking 👍, and much more eating options.

Yes there is now a la carte pricing . If you want prices lower then 20 years ago , you can get them and if you want to pay for all the bells and whistles, you can do that too . The choice is yours . What has been lost has for me,been replaced by other enhancements which I value . 

3 hours ago, RDC1 said:

kind of died as companies failed, or sold themselves to larger companies to avoid failure. You are getting what you are getting due to the economic non sustainability of the old model.  HAL, Princess, P&O, Cunard, Celebrity. There is a reason that they are no longer independant companies.

No one will convince me that a $10 charge on Holland is a good idea but the unalterable rule, change or die is very true .

[Hawaiidan]

42 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Well, my cabin steward told me it was a move to make Neptune and Pinnacle Suite passengers feel special. So there you go. I was special! People who buy into CO do get a different (and very nice) tote bag, which could be a way of showing off. Suites don't get this; they get the regular cheap blue one.  I can imagine the conversation. "Where did you get that nice Holland America totebag?" "Oh, I paid fifty bucks a day for it." 

 

"Orange" is meant to refer to the House of Orange, the royal family of the Netherlands. 

 

Yes  I know  I was invited by" Men Of Orange", the Dutch resistance  to a special ww2 commemoration in Arnheim some years back

[RDC1]

54 minutes ago, richstowe said:

A lot to agree with for the entire cruise industry ,not just HAL . It does seem there is a never ending series of cuts but offsetting this is affordable balconies, better and more varied entertainment , less smoking 👍, and much more eating options.

Yes there is now a la carte pricing . If you want prices lower then 20 years ago , you can get them and if you want to pay for all the bells and whistles, you can do that too . The choice is yours . What has been lost has for me,been replaced by other enhancements which I value . 

No one will convince me that a $10 charge on Holland is a good idea but the unalterable rule, change or die is very true .

25 years ago the business model of the main stream lines was to provide an pseudo upper class experience to the middle class within their budget.

 

Now the business model is to provide a moving Las Vegas style hotel at a competitive prices.  As Vegas has added amusement parks features in some of their hotels, so have cruise lines.  But the bottom line is that it is no longer even trying to be a pseudo upper class experience

[richstowe]

27 minutes ago, RDC1 said:

25 years ago the business model of the main stream lines was to provide an pseudo upper class experience to the middle class within their budget.

Perhaps but the cruise industry was much smaller then . Perhaps it's like the automotive industry before the Model T . Having a car before meant you had achieved a certain level of social class . Not so much 10 years after it was introduced . A more recent example was the colored TV . 

I recognize that some will say the cruise experience has been cheapened . So be it . I will happily take the trade off.

Also there are so many options in the cruise industry today for those trying to recapture the upper class experience .

Edited March 22, 2019 by richstowe

[RDC1]

Just now, richstowe said:

Perhaps but the cruise industry was much smaller then . Perhaps it's like the automotive industry before the Model T . Having a car before meant you had achieved a certain level of social class . Not so much 10 years after it was introduced . A more recent example was the colored TV . 

I recognize that some will say the cruise experience has been cheapened . So be it . I will happily take the trade off.

I am not complaining, just explaining.  The old days of the pseudo upper class experience on board main stream lines are gone and never coming back, except in episodes Downton Abbey

[OVgirl]

Perhaps I missed it somewhere in this discussion, but do mariners get the 25% or 50% discount on the $10 charge?

 

Regardless of how angry this addition makes passengers, will those who normally have ordered extra entrees in the past continue to order and pay the extra fee or will it make you think twice about ordering an extra entree?

[cruzin4us]

2 minutes ago, OVgirl said:

 

Regardless of how angry this addition makes passengers, will those who normally have ordered extra entrees in the past continue to order and pay the extra fee or will it make you think twice about ordering an extra entree?

 

Nope, I wouldn't pay for what I feel is only "fair" food in the MDR.  I will cough up the extra $ and eat in the Tamarind/Pinnacle Grill or even Canalleto where they actually give you a decent size portion.

 

[killsport]

8 minutes ago, OVgirl said:

Regardless of how angry this addition makes passengers, will those who normally have ordered extra entrees in the past continue to order and pay the extra fee or will it make you think twice about ordering an extra entree?

I’ll just order the equivalent amount, if I am hungry, in appetizers. It is more cost (more labor and higher priced components) for HAL in that, which is just one of the many reasons this is not a well thought change.

[terrydtx]

This has so far only been a one month test by HAL, it will be interesting to see if HAL goes fleet wide after this month. Let's hope HAL management reads this long thread to see how the majority of us, whether or not we eat more than one  entree, are opposed to the charge.

Edited March 22, 2019 by terrydtx

[badtwin]

We had been planning our second HAL cruise for several months after absolutely loving our first experience.   Then we got an offer for a river cruise (an amazing offer admittedly) and started really comparing the pricing -  drinks, tours, transfers etc.  Then I found this discussion when I asked about   how the food compared.   I can't say that the thought of the extra charge for another entree was the deciding factor, but it said something about the HAL experience I didn't like.   We cruise for the ports, not all the  on-board glitz.  We like to come back to the ship after a day in port, shower and dress up, and enjoy dinner in the MDR.    I pay enough for my wine - I shouldn't have to pay extra for food in the basic venues.

 

So HAL, if you are reading this, you lost two cruisers who are fast approaching the age where two cruises a year will be likely.   I will be watching this topic to see if we try HAL again or return to Celebrity.

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, OVgirl said:

Perhaps I missed it somewhere in this discussion, but do mariners get the 25% or 50% discount on the $10 charge?

 

Regardless of how angry this addition makes passengers, will those who normally have ordered extra entrees in the past continue to order and pay the extra fee or will it make you think twice about ordering an extra entree?

 

I believe someone asked and was told no mariner discount. 

[LMaxwell]

4 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

 

No.....But  I hate to break  the news....HAL  is  a nice mass market ship ...not a Premium    Premium would be Azamar, Oceania Viking Ocean.      Take a quick look at  what these lines include  and then what HAL included.      Premiums are not nickel dime cost plus items    Better yet sail one of those lines and get blown away by the difference      .

 

HAL is a premium vacation for many people.  I have friends who will go drive to Disney for their first, and likely only, ever trip in their lives.  That is a super premium vacation for them and represents a large cost.  Cruise Critic is an exceptionally small portion of a growing vacation market but you need to look holistically at the numbers of people cruising, and the numbers that actually ever repeat.  HAL markets itself as a premium experience.  Premium meaning above cruises like NCL and Carnival.  An Infiniti is a premium vehicle compared to a basic Ford Fiesta.  But an Infiniti is not being pitched as the equivalent of a Bentley.  It is though a premium product. 

 

I do look forward to the day we can sail Viking Ocean.  Our son is too young for that line.  

[Cruzaholic41]

5 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

 

No.....But  I hate to break  the news....HAL  is  a nice mass market ship ...not a Premium    Premium would be Azamar, Oceania Viking Ocean.      Take a quick look at  what these lines include  and then what HAL included.      Premiums are not nickel dime cost plus items    Better yet sail one of those lines and get blown away by the difference      .

 

That’s only your opinion. Hate to break the news but......there is no solid definition for what makes a cruise line Premium. Some travel companies do list HAL as a Premium line. 

[cheezenip]

3 hours ago, cruzin4us said:

Nope, I wouldn't pay for what I feel is only "fair" food in the MDR.  I will cough up the extra $ and eat in the Tamarind/Pinnacle Grill or even Canalleto where they actually give you a decent size portion.

 

The 3 big cruise lines (Carnival, Royal, and Norwegian) have been earning record profits the last few years.

 

Management is experimenting with policies like the extra entree charge in order to increase profits (NOT the fake eliminate waste excuse) in order to get more people to the specialty dining venues to increase profit margins. Then they can start making the MDR size portions smaller or less appealing (possibly by having less choices) and keep the standard portions the same at the specialty dining venues. All in the name of profits and cost cutting.

 

HAL needs to be stopped with this experiment because it will spread to all cruise lines if companies get a "whiff" that this idea could possibly work. The writing is on the wall. My 1st cruise with HAL is next month and I plan to complain loudly (on the ship and to the corporate people by phone/email/etc) if they start this nonsense on Nieuw Statendam.

Edited March 22, 2019 by cheezenip

[AncientWanderer]

3 hours ago, OVgirl said:

Perhaps I missed it somewhere in this discussion, but do mariners get the 25% or 50% discount on the $10 charge?

 

Regardless of how angry this addition makes passengers, will those who normally have ordered extra entrees in the past continue to order and pay the extra fee or will it make you think twice about ordering an extra entree?

 

No...we never will.  I probably would, but I know my DH and he will dig in hard on this and never order an extra, even though we often added a vegetarian dish to share in the past.  So, no, we will not.  

 

[rkacruiser]

5 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

Well, my cabin steward told me it was a move to make Neptune and Pinnacle Suite passengers feel special

 

If I choose to spend the money to book a Neptune Suite, I know that I "feel special" to myself.  I am treating myself to an accommodation that I don't usually do.   I have no desire to "broadcast" this "privilege" to other guests by dining in such a transparent venue as Club Orange is on the Pinnacle Class ships.  I put my pants on just as any other man does.  Just by booking a Neptune Suite, HAL has made me feel "special".

[AmazedByCruising]

17 minutes ago, cheezenip said:

Management is experimenting with policies like the extra entree charge in order to increase profits (NOT the fake eliminate waste excuse) in order to get more people to the specialty dining venues to increase profit margins

 

In a post a few years ago someone who knows these things showed that the specialty restaurants can't possibly make a profit during the lifetime of a ship, even when full each night. They only exist to increase demand for the ship. 

[kazu]

44 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

If I choose to spend the money to book a Neptune Suite, I know that I "feel special" to myself.  I am treating myself to an accommodation that I don't usually do.   I have no desire to "broadcast" this "privilege" to other guests by dining in such a transparent venue as Club Orange is on the Pinnacle Class ships.  I put my pants on just as any other man does.  Just by booking a Neptune Suite, HAL has made me feel "special".

 

I don’t disagree with you in most of this but your last line.

 

I don’t feel HAL made me feel special by booking a Neptune Suite.  If I am in one, I paid for it.

 

There is little special treatment and I am sure the $10 supplement applies to NS just like everything else does.

 

[rkacruiser]

3 minutes ago, kazu said:

I don’t feel HAL made me feel special by booking a Neptune Suite.  If I am in one, I paid for it.

 

Believe or not, I nearly added that thought to my post.  I decided not to do so because HAL provided the opportunity for me to spend that extra $$,  Surely, it was my decision to do so.  But, I appreciated the opportunity to have that choice.  

[SetAnOpenCourse]

8 hours ago, OVgirl said:

Perhaps I missed it somewhere in this discussion, but do mariners get the 25% or 50% discount on the $10 charge?

 

Regardless of how angry this addition makes passengers, will those who normally have ordered extra entrees in the past continue to order and pay the extra fee or will it make you think twice about ordering an extra entree?

We wouldn’t order the extra entree any more.  It doesn’t make us angry or anything.  We’d enjoy the the dinner (or not) just as much as if we had two entrees (well really it’s just me that would order the extra one sometimes).

[3rdGenCunarder]

14 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

If I choose to spend the money to book a Neptune Suite, I know that I "feel special" to myself.  I am treating myself to an accommodation that I don't usually do.   I have no desire to "broadcast" this "privilege" to other guests by dining in such a transparent venue as Club Orange is on the Pinnacle Class ships.  I put my pants on just as any other man does.  Just by booking a Neptune Suite, HAL has made me feel "special".

 

13 hours ago, kazu said:

 

I don’t disagree with you in most of this but your last line.

 

I don’t feel HAL made me feel special by booking a Neptune Suite.  If I am in one, I paid for it.

 

There is little special treatment and I am sure the $10 supplement applies to NS just like everything else does.

 

 

13 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Believe or not, I nearly added that thought to my post.  I decided not to do so because HAL provided the opportunity for me to spend that extra $$,  Surely, it was my decision to do so.  But, I appreciated the opportunity to have that choice.  

 

A lot of what you say was in my initial reaction to the whole CO thing and my steward's statement that it was supposed to make me feel "special." I don't need HAL to make me feel good. I'm on a very nice vacation and while HAL provides an opportunity to feel special, I believe that feeling special comes from within, not without. (Geez, I sound like Stuart Smalley!)

 

I did not need to have EVERYONE who works in CO come to the table to ask me if my breakfast is OK. It was like they were trying too hard, unlike my cabin stewards who hit just the right note of attention and friendliness. Looking back, the CO experience reminds me of the scene in Pretty Woman when Richard Gere tells a salesman that they need major sucking up and the salesman immediately starts fawning over him. 

 

And to "drift" back to the original topic, how special can you feel when the ever-so-gracious waiter asks you to pay $10 for a second main course?

 

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by 3rdGenCunarder