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12 hours ago, VennDiagram said:

 

Like several other comments I've read,  not entirely accurate.  At one time in my life I dined out regularly, and became a "regular" at several restaurants.  If I didn't care for something I ordered, the restaurant would happily replace it without charge.  HAL has plenty of "regulars" -- just look at everyone who is  a 3, 4 or 5 star Mariner.  I'd expect the same courtesy on the ship that I've experienced in land based restaurants.

 

I don't think anyone has seen that HAL will charge a dinner who sends an entree back (for any reason).

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24 minutes ago, Underwatr said:

 

I don't think anyone has seen that HAL will charge a dinner who sends an entree back (for any reason).

 

I was NOT saying there WOULD be a charge.  My comment was in direct response to another poster who said " If you get something you dont like...you ordered it.    Dont order it again the next time.   If you were in a restaurant   very seldom would you get a free second dinner of something different  without a charge for the new dish....if your complaint was  I dont like it. as a matter of taste, not prep or quality. "

 

 

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10 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

I agree.... but this complaint of charging on a mediocre mainstream line is complaining for fine dining  nor a burger. HAL is no different from every other mainstream line that earns much of its profit from all the little extra charges is lays on its passengers...  That par for the course.    its what HAL is.

 

When I signed up and paid for my cruise I wasn't told that there was going to be a "test" happening in the MDR, so I have the right to feel annoyed.  I'm not so annoyed that I won't ever sail with HAL again.  But I have to say I am disappointed because the option is being taken away and I have no choice in the matter. 

 

Honestly the only time I can remember ordering an extra entrée is on Gala nights so that my husband can enjoy an extra lobster tail.  I don't even eat seafood and I don't really care many nights for the available selections for dinner.  I most times find it a struggle to even make my one entrée selection, because none of them seem appetizing (and I'm not that picky).  

 

Someone mentioned that HAL monitors these boards, so I came out of my shell and added my suggestion.  In fact, I have another suggestion.  If HAL is trying to eliminate waste they should cut down on the amount of unnecessary paper fliers they stick in our boxes.  I don't go to the art auctions, watch sales, or whatever else.  HAL should give us the option of opting out of receiving those fliers.  I only use the daily activities pamphlet.  I don't want or need the other crap.

 

It's the principal of it all.  It's my opinion that if people continue to make excuses for HAL such as "it's par for the course" then HAL will think it's ok to continue to tack on extra charges.  Everyone has a right to their own opinion, you don't have to agree with mine, and I don't have to agree with yours.  I didn't initially feel nickeled and dimed from HAL, but I'm starting to.

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4 hours ago, DrSea said:

It is not a write off. It is a part of our compensation that we get funding that is specifically dedicated to get additional training. We get X amount of funding to spend, but these cruises almost always exceed that funding. I just told them about the nickle and diming experience I had on HAL, and they booked another CME cruise with another cruise line. We have lots of options for GME. 

.............

 

For review please, what exactly was the "nickle diming" you experienced on your last HAL cruise?   Not sure what this means - there are options that come with a surcharge noted upfront,  but we ourselves have not experienced any hard-selling and the essential included basics have all been in place.

Edited by OlsSalt
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1 hour ago, spirit-wedding? said:

When I signed up and paid for my cruise I wasn't told that there was going to be a "test" happening in the MDR, so I have the right to feel annoyed. 

 

A very valid point.  Nor, I bet have you received an email advising you of this test.

 

My friend is sailing on the Eurodam in a few days and, if they weren’t on CC they wouldn’t know about this.  They were NOT impressed when I spoke to them on the phone as they have received no advisory on it.

 

I don’t think they order a bunch of 2nd entrees, but it’s the principle of the thing.

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1 hour ago, spirit-wedding? said:

When I signed up and paid for my cruise I wasn't told that there was going to be a "test" happening in the MDR, so I have the right to feel annoyed. 

 

A very valid point.  Nor, I bet have you received an email advising you of this test.

 

My friend is sailing on the Eurodam in a few days and, if they weren’t on CC they wouldn’t know about this.  They were NOT impressed when I spoke to them on the phone as they have received no advisory on it.

 

I don’t think they order a bunch of 2nd entrees, but it’s the principle of the thing.

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11 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

essential included basics 

This may be misinterpreting your intentions, but I don’t go on a cruise on HAL for essentials... I mean, they could hand out MREs instead of serving real multi course meals. 

However, since this $10 charge is a test, I expect that HAL will present the results on how much food was wasted (pre and post test). And how much revenue was generated. Then they can compare that to the lost goodwill and determine if the end result is an improvement for their organization.  I will similarly assess whether their changes are a detriment to my organization (family).

What is most disappointing is the lack of notification to current passengers, with the change occurring after they paid. Although not a breach of contract, it is a breach of expectations.

Edited by killsport
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4 hours ago, DrSea said:

It is not a write off. It is a part of our compensation that we get funding that is specifically dedicated to get additional training. We get X amount of funding to spend, but these cruises almost always exceed that funding. I just told them about the nickle and diming experience I had on HAL, and they booked another CME cruise with another cruise line. We have lots of options for GME. 

 

Wow!  You can’t be in private practice.  There is NO funding for CME.  The physicians have to pay for it out of their own pockets.  At least, they do in Canada.

4 hours ago, DrSea said:

Lol, this is a perfect example of the disrespect and ridiculousness that we doctors experience in our offices/hospitals. 

 

Really??  Seriously??

 

Physicians in this country are treated with the highest respect and appreciated.  

 

If you are a doctor, maybe you should move?

 

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25 minutes ago, killsport said:

........

What is most disappointing is the lack of notification to current passengers, with the change occurring after they paid. Although not a breach of contract, it is a breach of expectations.

 

Ahhh yes, ........ passenger "expectations". That devilish detail that is both changing and subjective. Which raises the very good point how does management keep their fingers on the pulse of changing passenger "expectations". What are the established bench marks, what drives changes and how many expectations are self-inflicted and driven by their own marketing imagery.  

 

As a member of the War Babies generation, raised by Depression Era parents we often were expected to "eat what was put in front of us, waste not want not,  be a member of the clean plate  club, and there are starving children in Europe"

 

So our  own cruise "expectation"s are to be reasonably fed and not much more. And since we are now a rapidly dying demographic,  those more frugal expectations are no longer the majority. What new expectations is HAL currently using?

 

Not to beat a now dead horse but the original thread was recently revived here just yesterday, we had the "expectation" HAL did not dedicate public deck space to topless bathing. The range of  responses to that "expectation" was quite interesting, when topless sunbathing (female) appeared to be officially sanctioned and in full public view on a recent HAL cruise. 

 

Point being ...."expectations" are fickle and highly subjective. And it appears HAL stepped on a landmine on this one. To us, the addition of a second entree surcharge is reasonable. I sympathize with HAL on this one. But they at least admit upfront this was a test case.

 

HAL obviously needs to survey their preconceived "expectations" about their passengers better upfront.  Again, because they live in a "green bubble" in Seattle, they may have assumed this "food waste" mitigation step would be greeted with wild cheers. 

Edited by OlsSalt
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1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

A very valid point.  Nor, I bet have you received an email advising you of this test.

 

My friend is sailing on the Eurodam in a few days and, if they weren’t on CC they wouldn’t know about this.  They were NOT impressed when I spoke to them on the phone as they have received no advisory on it.

 

I don’t think they order a bunch of 2nd entrees, but it’s the principle of the thing.

 

You're right.  I haven't heard anything from HAL about it.  I learned about it when I saw a post about it in a HAL Facebook group that I belong to.   

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If some people find this additional charge acceptable, could you give me an idea of some additional charges you would find unacceptable?

 

I believe everyone has their "tipping point" and if you don't think this one is any big deal, I do believe one day they will finally get to yours, if the customers don't push back in the beginning.

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43 minutes ago, wombatKY said:

If some people find this additional charge acceptable, could you give me an idea of some additional charges you would find unacceptable?

 

I believe everyone has their "tipping point" and if you don't think this one is any big deal, I do believe one day they will finally get to yours, if the customers don't push back in the beginning.

yes there is a point at where you have had enough.   At that point, you have 2 choices accept the change    OR, Explore other options, of which there are many.  Options mentioned by others  who had always held HAL at the end all be all choice discovering that looking at another cruise line might be cheaper, more valuable and enjoyable.    We all have choices....utilize them and realize that you have other options.   Look forward  and utilize your energy for your benefit not trying to change your past expectation.

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46 minutes ago, wombatKY said:

If some people find this additional charge acceptable, could you give me an idea of some additional charges you would find unacceptable?

 

I believe everyone has their "tipping point" and if you don't think this one is any big deal, I do believe one day they will finally get to yours, if the customers don't push back in the beginning.

 

50 cents a minute for hot water in the shower would be one.

 

But seriously, the day that a new policy comes about that I'm not happy with, I will gladly voice my concern.  Personally, the meal surcharge is not one of them. If I spent my time concerning myself with everything that everyone else is worried about, I wouldn't have enough time to enjoy my cruise.

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Adding just bigger ships and retiring all the smaller ships will be my HAL tipping point.  Feed me, clean my cabin and take me to wonderful places - I am still good with HAL.

 

Second entree charge is not hill I would ever choose to die on.  Look at the outrage-generating "deal killers"  HAL introduced in the past - no more unlimited bottles of wine for in cabin use; no more Lido trays, no more fresh squeeze orange juice ....

 

Loss of libraries on Vista class and above has materially changed my choice of ship preferences. Were it not for the Tamarind restaurant i would never choose the Signature class ships, and only for short cruises.

 

Yes, when HAL says good by to R and S class ship, we will probably also sail off into the sunset and take another good look at Fred Olsen.

Edited by OlsSalt
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32 minutes ago, wombatKY said:

If some people find this additional charge acceptable, could you give me an idea of some additional charges you would find unacceptable?

 

I believe everyone has their "tipping point" and if you don't think this one is any big deal, I do believe one day they will finally get to yours, if the customers don't push back in the beginning.

 

It's not the slippery slope you describe, it's an ongoing proces. Cleaning your room once per day instead of two unless you request twice a day is not stopped by guests complaining about a surcharge on entrees.

 

It's their job to find out how to squeeze as much money out of passengers as possible and lessen costs without losing their business. So they will look for each and every opportunity anyway. 

 

If enough people complain (and complaints, even unresolved, are expensive) or actually cancel their cruise, they will reverse this decision. 

 

Another way to look at it is that they try to find out what people really want or dislike, and adjust their services accordingly. And that's precisely what a business should do IMHO, no matter how many people say that the product should still have all the features it had in the 80s, forgetting that almost noone could afford a cruise at the time. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

At that point, you have 2 choices accept the change    OR, Explore other options, of which there are many. 

First, I'm going to fight the change before I accept the change. I'm not going to just roll over and accept it without giving them my opinion.  I've seen pushbacks that have been successful.

 

If I have to move on, believe me, I will. I'm not afraid of that. I've been cruising since the early 80's and only have loyalty status on one. As soon as they start doing things I don't like, I'm out of there.

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4 minutes ago, wombatKY said:

First, I'm going to fight the change before I accept the change. I'm not going to just roll over and accept it without giving them my opinion.  I've seen pushbacks that have been successful.

 

If I have to move on, believe me, I will. I'm not afraid of that. I've been cruising since the early 80's and only have loyalty status on one. As soon as they start doing things I don't like, I'm out of there.

Totaly the best way to look at the situation.  There comes a point when your bailing against the tide.   Good attitude

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6 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

Another way to look at it is that they try to find out what people really want or dislike, and adjust their services accordingly. And that's precisely what a business should do IMHO, no matter how many people say that the product should still have all the features it had in the 80s, forgetting that almost noone could afford a cruise at the time. 

My husband and I went on our very first cruise only 3 years out of college. It was a short one with a guarantee inside cabin. Very affordable and we were treated like kings, just like those people in the penthouse suite. 

 

So, I can't agree that no one could afford a cruise at that time. 

 

We did several short cruises until our income and earned vacation time allowed us to do longer cruises. Now that we have all the time in the world, I can afford to be choosy and more selective. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

Totaly the best way to look at the situation.  There comes a point when your bailing against the tide.   Good attitude

 

I'd rather go down fighting than to give up without a fight.

Edited by wombatKY
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29 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

...Another way to look at it is that they try to find out what people really want or dislike, and adjust their services accordingly. And that's precisely what a business should do IMHO, no matter how many people say that the product should still have all the features it had in the 80s, forgetting that almost noone could afford a cruise at the time. 

 

I’m convinced this is financially and business driven.  And I imagine some of the main dishes are more expensive to source and prepare. Lobster comes to mind, as it keeps coming up as an item people say they order an extra of, and at least in my neck of the woods they are pricey.

 

 It looks like the answer here is people (a majority here, in our little CC world) are rejecting the option of paying for a second.

 

Would there be such outrage if HAL just removed higher ticket items from the MDR? (How long would it take before it was noticed?)

 

Or if HAL offered the higher ticket items (like lobster) at a surcharge only, starting with the first portion, as they have done with some special items?

 

As it stands on the test ships, at the moment, every diner in the MDR gets the first serving of a main included. 

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If this is really all about food waste and not a cash grab, then I'd really like to know how much food is wasted in the Lido and I'm not talking about folks who take more than they should. I've seen trays of items pulled out of the serving line when new (fresh) pans come out. What about what ever is left over when the lido closes for each shift (breakfast/lunch/dinner). Does this in anyway equal the amount of wasted food from folks ordering an extra entree and not completing it. 

 

I know that I've left partial plates in the Lido at times, but its not because I've grabbed more than I should. Its for reasons like cold french fries, meat like shoe leather or items that just did not taste good. When this happens I go back and get something else. 

 

The stated rationale for this test by HAL just does not pass the smell test for me. I think its just a simple cash grab that they are trying to slip past us. 

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43 minutes ago, iancal said:

Everything Is financially driven.  HAL is a for profit business.

 

HAL is a for-profit hospitality business.  

 

Customer satisfaction is their sole  product. If their customers are not happy with price and product, then neither will be the shareholders or management tenure. 

Edited by OlsSalt
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