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11 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

Ok   would you trade the $ 10 charge  for a 15-20% fare increase?

 

The honest answer is: It depends.

 

While cost is one factor in choosing a cruise, it is not the only factor for me. As a solo, I'm well used to paying 80 to 100% more per person than most already.

 

And while I certainly wouldn't trade out, one-for-one, a $10 charge for the increase you suggest, I WOULD carefully consider all the things that go along with it -- if those things meant I would have a more enjoyable vacation. Value and cost are not the same thing. 

 

I cruise on a variety of lines. For example, my last five cruises have been: Azamara, Voyages to Antiquity, Princess, HAL, and Celebrity.  Destination has driven most of those decisions. I'm not a HAL loyalist, it would be relatively easy to take HAL out of the mix, but I would take ANY line out if I felt there was constant upselling and pressure to take out my cruise card to make my vacation as enjoyable as previous ones.

 

So let me be completely frank. I literally cannot remember the last time I ordered more than a single entree. Maybe I never have. Fact is, I can't remember because it was never a big deal before. My stomach is not personally vested, but my mind is. This thing HAL is trying out just really bugs me. I would happily pay a higher fare to not have to deal with the mental picture of waiters having to take diners' cards all around the MDR in order to bring them a second entree. Or I would pay (and have paid) that higher fare elsewhere -- such as Azamara -- where this little thing that bothers me wouldn't be an issue.

 

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12 hours ago, wombatKY said:

 

Removing the $10 from HSC only penalizes the staff who have no control over the situation and have been put in the crosshairs. I would never advocate that. 

 

An email and/or comments on Twitter and Instagram will be effective. 

 

Ignore the collateral damage for sake of discussion; the ONLY language corporate understands is money.  they don't care about twitter or instagram negative comments, they mean nothing. 

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1 hour ago, Hawaiidan said:

Ok   would you trade the $ 10 charge  for a 15-20% fare increase?

 

I don't think I've ever ordered a second entrée, but I dislike the nickel and diming and they hypocrisy of claiming it's to control waste.

 

It's a money grab. If HAL is so desperate for money, increase fares by $70 per week. The way prices change from week to week and promo to promo, I'm not sure a $70 increase would get a lot of attention. And it would not be a 15-20% increase. ($70 is 15% of a $467 fare and 20% of a $350 fare.)

 

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In the old days, in the lido buffet, I wasted very little food, (only if something was not to my liking did it go to waste.) Now that the majority of the lido buffet is staff served I waste a lot of food in the lido.  I can't seem to get across the concept of a very little bit of something.  I try to get a side salad to go with my meal and often waste much of it  because I ask for a very little bit of greens and toppings but they still just give me way too much. Maybe they could reduce waste by training lido servers to give smaller portions and add if necessary instead of a big heap of something to begin with.   In the MDR I may or may not waste food, depending on how hungry I am, I may only eat half my appetizer, soup, salad and/or entree, because I want to have room to have a taste of all of it or room for dessert.  If I could choose my portion size there would be no waste (again except if I didn't like it) but that is not the way it works.  As I stated in an earlier post, only reason I have ever ordered a second entree was because the first was not to my liking.  What I would really like to see is something akin to a tasting menu, where I could get just a couple of bites of several different entrees and sides.  

 

On another note, I have been trying to get my kids, (they have been on Carnival, RCCL and Disney) to come with me on a HAL cruise,  Although, there is not as much to do for a young family on HAL, I had them very excited about the possibility.  When I mentioned this new $10 surcharge, to my  son-in-law, it was a deal breaker, he is tall and athletic, he will eat 2 entrees at dinner and be ready for a snack an hour later.  Not because he is a pig but because his body just burns through it.  He could go to the Lido and get second dinner, (or only the lido for meals) but that takes away from the upscale cruise experience for him.  

 

 

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I was reading a news release that HAL is testing a $10 surcharge for a second entree in the MDR this spring on four ships only. Then they will assess how it went and proceed accordingly. I believe the four ships are the Eurodam, Noordam, Oosterdam, and Westerdam? On the other ships, you can order any dam thing you want penalty free.

If enough people raise hell about it, it will affect their assessment, and prevent it being rolled out to the fleet.

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13 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I don't think I've ever ordered a second entrée, but I dislike the nickel and diming and they hypocrisy of claiming it's to control waste.

 

It's a money grab. If HAL is so desperate for money, increase fares by $70 per week. The way prices change from week to week and promo to promo, I'm not sure a $70 increase would get a lot of attention. And it would not be a 15-20% increase. ($70 is 15% of a $467 fare and 20% of a $350 fare.)

 

I guess  I am in a different universe..... getting a cruise for $66.00 a day !!!!  and  20 to 30 of that is proably tax and port !!! 

 

You cant stay in a motel 6 for that    The cheapest I have seen is around  $ 90.    and still thats so cheap too.      At $660 a day, how can a rational person complain about being nickel and dimed.....common sense  should tell you that a cruise line  simply could not survive  on such a low income pp...     NCL-RCCL Celeb-HAL-MSC-Princess-     They are all cut from the same cloth....  all  nickel-dime   the only difference is the decoration and demographics  .     

 You wont see nickel and dime business model above 200 a day/pp  That should tell you something.

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6 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

I guess  I am in a different universe..... getting a cruise for $66.00 a day !!!!  and  20 to 30 of that is proably tax and port !!! 

 

You cant stay in a motel 6 for that    The cheapest I have seen is around  $ 90.    and still thats so cheap too.      At $660 a day, how can a rational person complain about being nickel and dimed.....common sense  should tell you that a cruise line  simply could not survive  on such a low income pp...     NCL-RCCL Celeb-HAL-MSC-Princess-     They are all cut from the same cloth....  all  nickel-dime   the only difference is the decoration and demographics  .     

 You wont see nickel and dime business model above 200 a day/pp  That should tell you something.

 

Just because YOU scored a great deal does not mean that $66 per day is anywhere near the standard per diem for a HAL cruise -- a point you seem to keep forgetting.

Edited by cruisemom42
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11 hours ago, imescaping said:

In the old days, in the lido buffet, I wasted very little food, (only if something was not to my liking did it go to waste.) Now that the majority of the lido buffet is staff served I waste a lot of food in the lido.  I can't seem to get across the concept of a very little bit of something.  I try to get a side salad to go with my meal and often waste much of it  because I ask for a very little bit of greens and toppings but they still just give me way too much. Maybe they could reduce waste by training lido servers to give smaller portions and add if necessary instead of a big heap of something to begin with.   In the MDR I may or may not waste food, depending on how hungry I am, I may only eat half my appetizer, soup, salad and/or entree, because I want to have room to have a taste of all of it or room for dessert.  If I could choose my portion size there would be no waste (again except if I didn't like it) but that is not the way it works.  As I stated in an earlier post, only reason I have ever ordered a second entree was because the first was not to my liking.  What I would really like to see is something akin to a tasting menu, where I could get just a couple of bites of several different entrees and sides.  

 

On another note, I have been trying to get my kids, (they have been on Carnival, RCCL and Disney) to come with me on a HAL cruise,  Although, there is not as much to do for a young family on HAL, I had them very excited about the possibility.  When I mentioned this new $10 surcharge, to my  son-in-law, it was a deal breaker, he is tall and athletic, he will eat 2 entrees at dinner and be ready for a snack an hour later.  Not because he is a pig but because his body just burns through it.  He could go to the Lido and get second dinner, (or only the lido for meals) but that takes away from the upscale cruise experience for him.  

 

 

 

HAL  is not an "upscale" cruise line. It is a very nice mass market cruise line doing the best they can.  If the $10 surcharge for a second entree is a deal breaker, so be it.  

 

You can always order half portions in the MDR if you want smaller portions. Self-serve was eliminated due to sanitation concerns. Just make it very clear to the Lido server what you want and you will get it. They are very happy to accommodate you. 

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Maybe it’s me but it seem the portions are smaller now. The 10 dollar fee I think is a bit of a joke let’s face it not many people eat to orders. However I don’t usually eat an apply but i might have two steaks now I would pay 10
Bucks Does not seem fair.


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5 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Just because YOU scored a great deal does not mean that $66 per day is anywhere near the standard per diem for a HAL cruise -- a point you seem to keep forgetting.

Ok,  you tell me what is the per-diem  on HAL for the cabins below ocean view ?   I was  using the figures that others provided, Thats all.     

Do you mean that at a $66 fare one can expect a much larger per day actual outlay due to all the "added , expected, charges encountered" ?       Help me.

 On the other hand, when you get cabins above ocean view your paying more than many  inclisive or semi-inclusive lines...   very exhorbant in comparison, for what you get.  

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On 2/24/2019 at 2:44 PM, djhsolara said:

We were just seated in the Dining Room on NA and were informed by our server that if you order more than one main course, there is a $10 surcharge. Still unlimited starters, etc. We’ve never heard this before. 

We can all thank our wasteful selves for this.  Gone are the midnight buffets because people would mound their plates high and waste most of the food.  Others would go to be lookieloos at the beautiful displays but not eat that late so that food went to waste.  I've seen on other cruises before people order for example a second prime rib and eat 1/4 of the second one and it go to waste.  I am waiting for the buffet to go to cafeteria style so they control to portions because of this same waste.

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6 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Now you know

I have no problem with HAL changing their business model. I’m disappointed, but have since booked my next year’s cruise on Celebrity. I’m past final payment on my HAL cruise. What would get me angered / frustrated was if I was on one of those test ships without notice (prior to cancellation penalties). Although not in the contract, past performance does set a reasonable expectation. Had HAL said (and notified booked passengers) that in 90 days they were going to either make this change or run this test, that would have allowed passengers who felt they would be impacted to make a line change or accept the modifications. At that point, the passenger knows what they are purchasing.

 

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On 3/8/2019 at 1:07 PM, slidergirl said:

 

Careful - you'll be accused of "fat shaming"...🙄

 

I would love to see a count done of those who promise to leave HAL because of a $10 charge.  How many other places have people stopped patronizing because of a small upcharge?  How many stopped going to their favorite resort when the dreaded "resort fee" was implemented?    Would you rather have HAL jack up the cruise rate or try to keep the base rate low and make up revenue with add-ons?  Kind of like the LCCs- you pay $39 for your airfare, but you pay $50 for one bag, $20 for a carryon, etc.    For me, even having to pay for that 2nd daily cabin cleaning would be OK.  There are hotels out there that actually PAY you (take money off your bill or give you comp breakfast) if you select the Green Choice and forego service.  HAL must think that enough people are ordering that 2nd and 3rd entree that it could be a modest revenue stream.  

I did not   read  any posters here threatening ( or promising)  to leave HAL  because of the new $10  charge.  Perhaps I missed it?

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

 

 

Edited by sail7seas
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5 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

I did not   read  any posters here threatening ( or promising)  to leave HAL  because of the new $10  charge.  Perhaps I missed it?

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

 

 

 

You missed it. There were multiple threats. Just some today.  But I don't recommend re-reading them to find them. Why slog.

 

We find the lack of the old formal libraries to be our own HAL deal breaker and did cancel a Westerdam cruise for that specific reason. So we all have our own limits and act accordingly. 

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27 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

You missed it. There were multiple threats. Just some today.  But I don't recommend re-reading them to find them. Why slog.

 

We find the lack of the old formal libraries to be our own HAL deal breaker and did cancel a Westerdam cruise for that specific reason. So we all have our own limits and act accordingly. 

 

Each has their own threshold ..  Library, nickel dime, Art auctions, specialty restaurant charges ,  food quality, faux elite classes, Kids,  ship size, passenger demographic and manners..... on and on.        As I have said prior... there are other lines  in the Premium/luxury class that provide all that which was formerly available on HAL and other similar tier lines.     Objectively, you can not really complain about what was in the past and paying  low fares that could not sustain those features/extras.       You can complain if you feel better by doing it  but your not wanting to pay for it......

You can very easily regain the quality and amenities  you so dearly miss but its going to come at a higher price that you have to pay. and on a different line    To be blunt.  HAL can simply not provide any longer what you want or used to have... Not possible.  Their ships wont be able to provide , any longer, those services, even if they wanted to.    No matter how you decorate a Motel 6  it will never offer what a room at the Ritz Carlton can.

 I do not understand how or why a rational person would not understand that what they want is available but no longer from the source they are familiar with.

Edited by Hawaiidan
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23 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

You missed it. There were multiple threats. Just some today.  But I don't recommend re-reading them to find them. Why slog.

 

We find the lack of the old formal libraries to be our own HAL deal breaker and did cancel a Westerdam cruise for that specific reason. So we all have our own limits and act accordingly. 

La c k of libraries and charge for extra entree at dinner are  quite different 'issues'.   

    I don't care if they cut portion sizes,  since  they gave up on  having cast members in library, I gave up on it.  I will take far more than that to make me a 'landlubber.'    I'll  go for my first cruise alone  (since losing my dh, I sailed with friends aboard in their own cabins.  )   This time it will be just me.     Hope it goes well.     I t will take far more than a  disappointing library  to wreck my cruise.  I'll  bring my own reading material.  Easy enough to do these days.

sail.noordam@gmail.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

I'll  go for my first cruise alone  (since losing my dh, I sailed with friends aboard in their own cabins.  )   This time it will be just me.     Hope it goes well.    

 

Good for you, Sail!  Glad to hear this.

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15 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

   I'll  go for my first cruise alone  (since losing my dh, I sailed with friends aboard in their own cabins.  )   This time it will be just me.     Hope it goes well.    


 

 

 

 

I think it will. Going with friends was a good way to get back into cruising. That's what I did, and later when I did my first true "solo" it was surprisingly easy to do. The ocean is good for the soul. I hope it's like that for you, too. 

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We can all thank our wasteful selves for this.  Gone are the midnight buffets because people would mound their plates high and waste most of the food.  Others would go to be lookieloos at the beautiful displays but not eat that late so that food went to waste.  I've seen on other cruises before people order for example a second prime rib and eat 1/4 of the second one and it go to waste.  I am waiting for the buffet to go to cafeteria style so they control to portions because of this same waste.

I truly don’t believe believe there is some waste however it’s all about the bottom line and must say I am glad to see some
Other lines starting up and they
Are offering more so I am sure in time these lines will need to follow


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1 hour ago, sail7seas said:

La c k of libraries and charge for extra entree at dinner are  quite different 'issues'.   

    I don't care if they cut portion sizes,  since  they gave up on  having cast members in library, I gave up on it.  I will take far more than that to make me a 'landlubber.'    I'll  go for my first cruise alone  (since losing my dh, I sailed with friends aboard in their own cabins.  )   This time it will be just me.     Hope it goes well.     I t will take far more than a  disappointing library  to wreck my cruise.  I'll  bring my own reading material.  Easy enough to do these days.

sail.noordam@gmail.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have a great time and enjoy, S7S! :classic_smile:

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2 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

 I do not understand how or why a rational person would not understand that what they want is available but no longer from the source they are familiar with.

 

Perhaps it is you who are not rational, since others here seem to keep answering you, yet you keep making the same statement.

 

Life is not a binary game. We have choices, we do not only have to choose between A and B. 

 

You seem to think that you are the only one who has sailed on more upscale lines. Here is some news for you: others have as well and while we enjoy them, we also enjoy sailing with HAL. HAL has provided a pleasant, moderately upscale cruise experience with excellent itineraries -- which, by the way, one cannot find on Oceania.  So I would like to continue sailing with HAL periodically, along with having other choices. 

 

Also, why do you keep ignoring the fact that cruise lines HAVE walked back bad decisions in the past?

Edited by cruisemom42
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4 hours ago, ScottC4746 said:

We can all thank our wasteful selves for this.  Gone are the midnight buffets because people would mound their plates high and waste most of the food.  Others would go to be lookieloos at the beautiful displays but not eat that late so that food went to waste.  I've seen on other cruises before people order for example a second prime rib and eat 1/4 of the second one and it go to waste.  I am waiting for the buffet to go to cafeteria style so they control to portions because of this same waste.

 

I'm not sure I agree with "our wasteful selves", especially for the Chocolate Extravaganza (or whatever it was called).  It was HAL's decision to put that on, at heaven knows what manpower costs, and it was HAL's decision to make the items look far, far better than any of them tasted.  So we, the passengers, can't be called "wasteful" though much of the Extravaganza did go to waste. 

 

The buffet does not have many items remaining that are self-serve.  In my estimate, about 90% of the food is now served by crew.

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3 hours ago, killsport said:

What would get me angered / frustrated was if I was on one of those test ships without notice (prior to cancellation penalties). Although not in the contract, past performance does set a reasonable expectation. Had HAL said (and notified booked passengers) that in 90 days they were going to either make this change or run this test, that would have allowed passengers who felt they would be impacted to make a line change or accept the modifications. At that point, the passenger knows what they are purchasing.

 

Exactly.  The ridiculous way this is being tested really makes me wonder if the decision has already been made, and the "testing" is just window dressing.

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