One Main Course

[cruzin4us]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Using your numbers, I come to a different conclusion. $1000/day times 365 days = $365,000 additional pure profit for HAL for each ship every year.

 

$365,000 x 15 ships = $5,475,000.   Well, that answers the question....trial my ass

[terrydtx]

8 hours ago, Peckishpixie said:

My son is going on his first cruise and that man eats 8000 calories a day because he is an athlete. That is a whole lot of appetizers he'd have to eat.

Your son can also go up to the Lido after the MDR meal for more food if he is still hungry, no extra charge there yet. 

[terrydtx]

12 hours ago, cruzin4us said:

I got to thinking about this (again...).   I decided to do some math and my estimates may be off, but I thought this would be a good start anyway.   Let's say 100 people order an extra entree in one night.   That's 100 x $10 = $1,000.   So, on a seven day cruise that would be $1,000 x 7 = $7,000.   Ok, that sounds like a lot of money so let's take this one step farther.   There are 1052 rooms on Eurodam, so let's take that $7,000 and divide it by 1052 which equates to $6.65 per cabin. 

 

To think this has an impact on cruise prices doesn't make sense.  Even if I was way off on my estimate of how many people would order an extra entree it still doesn't pencil out on keeping cabin prices any less expensive.    Even if 500 people ordered an extra entree it would be 500 x $10 =$5,000 per day.  $5,000 x 7 = $40,000.   Making that $38.02 per cabin.   

 

As far as the food waste.   I think as long as people cruise unfortunately there will be food wastage.  Whether it is in the Lido, the MDR, the Dive, or any of the Specialty Dining rooms.....Maybe a few reminders in fine print stating something like "Please consider before you order as HAL is making a concerted effort to reduce waste thus helping the environment....yada yada".    Sometimes people just need to be educated (and some will never be educated).    Kind of the same technique like the signs in your bathroom regarding using your towels more than once.

 

 

100 extra entrees per day seems like a low number. However  on all of our cruises other than sending back an entrée because it didn't taste right or was over cooked, the only time I remember seeing more entrees ordered was on lobster nights. My observation is not scientific so it would be interesting to see actual numbers on the 4 test ships.

 

Also judging from the responses on this thread from some very loyal HAL customers, HAL should forget about making the test permanent. The vast majority of us, while not always wanting a second entrée, think this is a big mistake. I am curious why CCL corporate chose HAL to test this, with the older demographics of HAL who do not as a rule eat as much as much younger demographics like on Carnival.

Edited March 19, 2019 by terrydtx

[Peckishpixie]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

a) I agree that nobody will prefer the charge.

b) Very few who pay it will probably complain, thus making the trial period a success.

c) On most cruises, a significant percentage of passengers are new to cruising or new to HAL. They would think the charge is normal and thus have no reason to complain.

I think you missed the part where she said that already, based on passenger response, they womt likely continue the charge. That means people have complained so much that half way through the trial they have already decided it was a dumb idea.

[LMaxwell]

14 hours ago, richstowe said:

I agree with you . I think this $10 fee is foolish and harms their own brand .  My slight quibble is your use of the word luxury . HAL is mass market . Perhaps a touch above NCL and Carnival but on par with Princess, RC and Celebrity . It is not luxury, certainly not anytime in the recent past . 

Any mass market cruise is still a luxury and HAL absolutely advertises itself on refinement, being a cut above, etc.  Maybe it is not a high end, boutique, ultra expensive luxury experience, but it is still a luxury.  This is not like flying Spirit Air because you NEED to get to somewhere.  

A Lexus is a luxury vehicle.  It may be a fraction of the cost of a Rolls Royce, not be anywhere near as exclusive or difficult to obtain, but both are well above basic transportation.   

[Bostonjetset]

6 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

Any mass market cruise is still a luxury and HAL absolutely advertises itself on refinement, being a cut above, etc.  Maybe it is not a high end, boutique, ultra expensive luxury experience, but it is still a luxury.  This is not like flying Spirit Air because you NEED to get to somewhere.  

A Lexus is a luxury vehicle.  It may be a fraction of the cost of a Rolls Royce, not be anywhere near as exclusive or difficult to obtain, but both are well above basic transportation.   

Well said. I think this is often glossed over here. Traveling by ship (with the exception of some line voyages on the QM2) is more than a way to get from point A to point B. Comparing cruises to airline flights is silly IMO as they have very little in common except that they transport people. Your Lexus vs Rolls Royce comparison is spot on as well. 

 

A rule I’ve always tried to live by in my professional life is to under promise and over deliver. HAL is doing exactly the opposite with this move.  The advertising shows a glamorous ocean voyage on a refined ship and the onboard experience of charging $10 for an extra lamb chop or whatever does not fit with that.  Of course ads are meant to offer an idealized view and most people get that. However, over promising and under delivering for too long is a fast way to make people look elsewhere. 

[Hawaiidan]

13 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Using your numbers, I come to a different conclusion. $1000/day times 365 days = $365,000 additional pure profit for HAL for each ship every year.

Thats is assuming, Labor , Insurance, Food , Fuel ,Oil , Maintenance, repair,  etc  all remain the same....   $365 K  for an annual margin does not sound very large....  Thats me.

[sail7seas]

On 3/9/2019 at 5:27 PM, VennDiagram said:

 

Exactly.  The ridiculous way this is being tested really makes me wonder if the decision has already been made, and the "testing" is just window dressing.

 It is laugha ble  anyone would seriously complain about being  permitted only one entree  each evening...    FEAR not,,,    no one is likely to go hungry on any HAL ship/ cruise.  

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

Edited March 20, 2019 by sail7seas

[kevingastreich]

I bet it is just a way to make up for all the extra lobster they give out on Gala Nights. They charge for it in the PG so now they will do the same in the MDR. Lido will be next. 

[BCCRUSINGCOUPLE]

 
Sorry but I don’t swallow that corporate line for a 2nd.
 
Not one iota of it and I feel for passengers that are on cruises (including a very pricey one) that have been hit this by surprise.
 
What’s next?  A $10 surcharge for my additional order of escargot?
 
I am not a big eater but I will sometime forfeit my filet (we at in the PG) and get an extra lobster tail IF they are good.  Last couple of cruises they were but $10 when it’s the only time I want something extra other than escargots?  
 
I pay plenty on my cruise and don’t begrudge a dime - but this I do begrudge and frankly, it will leave a very bad taste in my mouth if it does.  JMVHO
 
 

I agree totally glad you see what is going on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OlsSalt]

16 hours ago, terrydtx said:

.........think this is a big mistake. I am curious why CCL corporate chose HAL to test this, with the older demographics of HAL who do not as a rule eat as much as much younger demographics like on Carnival.

 

HAL is a aggressively going after a younger demographic now and trying to move Carnival passenger up to higher priced cruise lines in the family.

 

Quite frankly, we older, high Mariner cruisers are growing revenue loss for HAL due to our loyalty that can still pack some of their cruises, and numbers of discounts they are now obligated to honor for us - they might not mind losing some of us along the way - if this $10 charge offends so many even when they never would have ordered a second serving in the first place..  

 

However, count me among those who this is a minor impact change and have no problem with it or changing the prior "culture" of unlimited food on passenger demand. That feature never figured into our own cruise selection equation, so for us this is no loss of either immediate impact or cruise culture.

 

Put "unlimited food" in cruise ship MDRs into the same hoary category as MDR "formal nights". Times have changed. No penalties for those who do dress up for any meal in any setting; and equally no penalties at this time for ordering as much food as one wants for no charge .... but just not in the MDR  setting. Anywhere else, have at it.  

 

And one can wear a tux to breakfast in the Pinnacle or CO, if this is what one wants to do. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by OlsSalt

[kennicott]

2 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

Put "unlimited food" in cruise ship MDRs into the same hoary category as MDR "formal nights". Times have changed. No penalties for those who do dress up for any meal in any setting; and equally no penalties at this time for ordering as much food as one wants for no charge .... but just not in the MDR  setting. Anywhere else, have at it.  

 

And one can wear a tux to breakfast in the Pinnacle or CO, if this is what one wants to do.  

I agree with all the above in your post. Except for your opinion of the formal nights. Which is one of the reasons we dumped HAL about 5 years ago after 200 days on the high seas with them. From your posts, sounds like we made the correct decision. Happy Hal sailings in the future for you, we have had hundreds of days, since, on Princess which still believes in formal.     

Edited March 20, 2019 by kennicott

[caribill]

10 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

Thats is assuming, Labor , Insurance, Food , Fuel ,Oil , Maintenance, repair,  etc  all remain the same....   $365 K  for an annual margin does not sound very large....  Thats me.

 

Labor, insurance, food, fuel, oil, etc. price increases exist whether or not there is a charge for a second entree and will result in higher cruise fares. They would not eat into the new profit they would have from chargeing $10 for 2nd entrees.

[*Miss G*]

8 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

HAL is a aggressively going after a younger demographic now and trying to move Carnival passenger up to higher priced cruise lines in the family.

 

I think they are fine right where they are.  

[OlsSalt]

10 hours ago, kennicott said:

I agree with all the above in your post. Except for your opinion of the formal nights. Which is one of the reasons we dumped HAL about 5 years ago after 200 days on the high seas with them. From your posts, sounds like we made the correct decision. Happy Hal sailings in the future for you, we have had hundreds of days, since, on Princess which still believes in formal.     

 

We probably agree about the loss of formal nights; just got tired trying to sweep back the sea on this topic. Glad I knew it when. Nice memories and DH and I will continue to dress up as long as HAL continues with the pretense of a "Gala Night" - plus we even throw in a few of our own to celebrate our own special occasions and particularly the end of another very good cruise. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by OlsSalt

[J4NEC]

I don’t understand why there is all this indignation.  Who would dream of ordering two main courses? 

[kazu]

3 minutes ago, J4NEC said:

I don’t understand why there is all this indignation.  Who would dream of ordering two main courses? 

 

Some people forego the surf when there are lobster tails and ask for a 2nd lobster tail instead.

 

Some want just a “taste” of something - not a full main course.

 

There’s all kinds of scenarios where this can come into play.

[OlsSalt]

7 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Some people forego the surf when there are lobster tails and ask for a 2nd lobster tail instead.

 

Some want just a “taste” of something - not a full main course.

 

There’s all kinds of scenarios where this can come into play.

 

Just like they are allowed to do in any land-based restaurant and not expect any additional charges?

 

In the US, they often add a "split plate" charge is you want to share one entree (main course) with your dining partner.   In that case you pay premium to only order one meal. So obviously they are charging for the seat and setting; not the food itself.  The economics of food service in various settings are arcane and varied.

Edited March 20, 2019 by OlsSalt

[cruisemom42]

15 minutes ago, J4NEC said:

I don’t understand why there is all this indignation.  Who would dream of ordering two main courses? 

 

Have a read through the entire thread. I recall some pretty good reasons have been given.

[killsport]

15 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Just like they are allowed to do in any land-based restaurant and not expect any additional charges? 

 Yes, just like they can do at many land resorts where food is included. In Mexico. In Bali. In Costa Rica. In the Dominican Republic.

Just like they can on competing cruise lines. On Celebrity. On Princess.

Edited March 20, 2019 by killsport
grammar

[cruzin4us]

33 minutes ago, J4NEC said:

I don’t understand why there is all this indignation.  Who would dream of ordering two main courses? 

 

My husband and will many times order an additional main course such as the pasta and we will split it along with whatever main dish we have ordered....this is not unreasonable IMO.  Another example is we may each order a steak and want to split a shrimp dish (or salad).   We do it all the time and don't waste the food.

[cruisemom42]

29 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Just like they are allowed to do in any land-based restaurant and not expect any additional charges?

 

The comparison isn't valid. The standard land-based restaurant charges you for every course you order and does not charge if you do not order. If I don't order a dessert, I don't pay for a dessert. Cruise ships operate differently. They charge me a fixed amount for food every day, regardless of whether or not I eat all my meals on board ship. (Plus I have never yet had a land-based restaurant charge me for a phantom table-mate's food costs if I am dining solo...)

 

Cruise ship MDRs have made some "assumptions" regarding how much each individual will order. Whether that be three courses or four per person, we don't know. But such an assumption has to be in place in order to allow them to operate efficiently and manage food costs and prep.

 

By instituting this charge for a second entree, they are opening up a can of worms, in my opinion. Just a few questions that one might ask:

 

-- If someone comes in and orders a single entree but does not order any appetizer, soup or dessert, does HAL then owe them a rebate for NOT ordering the assumed amount?

 

-- If someone orders a salad and two entrees, does that necessarily exceed the assumed amount? They may actually be SAVING the line money, as it seems that appetizers generally contain some of the higher quality ingredients used (albeit in small portions).

 

-- If someone eats one or several meals shoreside, are they eligible for some rebate?  (After all, they are reducing waste onboard!)

 

-- If someone comes in and orders multiples of every course except the entree, will HAL just pat them on the back and say "Have a nice evening!"?

 

 

As you can see, it can very quickly get out of hand -- but by instituting this charge, HAL is opening up the door for consideration of what is fair. And there can be many different interpretations on that score....

Edited March 20, 2019 by cruisemom42

[Fouremco]

3 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

As you can see, it can very quickly get out of hand -- but by instituting this charge, HAL is opening up the door for consideration of what is fair. And there can be many different interpretations on that score....

Unfortunately, HAL really isn't interested in varied interpretations of what is fair, only in what is good for their bottom line.

[RDC1]

11 hours ago, kennicott said:

I agree with all the above in your post. Except for your opinion of the formal nights. Which is one of the reasons we dumped HAL about 5 years ago after 200 days on the high seas with them. From your posts, sounds like we made the correct decision. Happy Hal sailings in the future for you, we have had hundreds of days, since, on Princess which still believes in formal.     

Actually the requirements for formal nights on Princess are very similar to that for HAL.  A pair of slacks and a collared shirt is all one needs on Princess these days.

[OlsSalt]

39 minutes ago, killsport said:

 Yes, just like they can do at many land resorts where food is included. In Mexico. In Bali. In Costa Rica. In the Dominican Republic.

Just like they can on competing cruise lines. On Celebrity. On Princess.

 

Celebrity and Princess can meet their own bottom line anyway they want. If those who continue to demand unlimited food, including unlimited food hours which both those ships offer, then they have found their favored cruise lines.

 

HAL does not need to compete with either of them and should not let their dining free for alls set the standard practices on their own ships. Time for HAL to get out of this spinning squirrel wheel  competition with either Princess or Celebrity - let HAL carve out its own niche for travellers who can and do survive, knowing it is reasonable to expect moderation in all things offered while onboard.