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I think travel and trying new foods are pretty closely linked for many people. This probably a accounts for some ordering multiple entrees, to sample new foods. I mean, in my daily life I rarely have guinea fowl, duck, or veal and I may not want a whole entree, just a bite or two. Maybe HAL should offer tasting portions as an option for those that would simply like to try different items. They offer half portions already in the MDR and have the smaller quick lunch options too.

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I wonder if some people's opinions on what is "right" for other people would be acceptable if it was something they preferred.

1. No cruising, as it wastes fossil fuels

2. Only flush once a day to conserve water

3. Only 10-15 minutes in the sun all day to reduce cancer risks

4. Music must be played at below 85 decibels to avoid hearing loss

It is my hard-earned vacation and I expect to do/try things that I can't/don't do at home...

Like tasting different foods. Like eating a second entree. Like having a dessert at an odd hour. Like sitting on a balcony. Like having a glass of wine before 6pm. Like visiting different locations. Like talking to people I haven't met before. Like listening to live music of different genres. Like having salmon/lox at breakfast. Like having a burger and fries because they smell or look good. This is vacation, not everyday/routine time.

As long as I'm not interfering with others (e.g. being loud, obnoxious, smelly, blocking the view), why would anyone care what I do?

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4 minutes ago, killsport said:

I wonder if some people's opinions on what is "right" for other people would be acceptable if it was something they preferred.

The nice thing about public boards is that everyone is entitled to express a personal opinion. Or post it twice! :classic_rolleyes: 

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26 minutes ago, killsport said:

I wonder if some people's opinions on what is "right" for other people would be acceptable if it was something they preferred.

1. No cruising, as it wastes fossil fuels

2. Only flush once a day to conserve water

3. Only 10-15 minutes in the sun all day to reduce cancer risks

4. Music must be played at below 85 decibels to avoid hearing loss

It is my hard-earned vacation and I expect to do/try things that I can't/don't do at home...

Like tasting different foods. Like eating a second entree. Like having a dessert at an odd hour. Like sitting on a balcony. Like having a glass of wine before 6pm. Like visiting different locations. Like talking to people I haven't met before. Like listening to live music of different genres. Like having salmon/lox at breakfast. Like having a burger and fries because they smell or look good. This is vacation, not everyday/routine time.

As long as I'm not interfering with others (e.g. being loud, obnoxious, smelly, blocking the view), why would anyone care what I do?

It's good we all have choices and that most of us never notice what others eat, unless it looks really yummy, or wear, unless they look really good, or anything else. Like you say, we are on vacation and using our own money to do it. Enjoy. 🍹

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Wonder if this was a Culinary Afficianados Cruise since the food quality/menu is probably a step up from normal MDR dinner fare?

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Let's get back to the OP's original topic.   This is supposed to be about another "cash grab' tactic that some moron in Seattle thought would be another way to squeeze more money out of passengers.  They can't raise the basic cruise price because that would turn people away, so they find other ways to nickle and dime you for "extras" that used to be included.

The ability to sample different menu items, or order multiple menu items has been traditional in the cruise industry for decades.   Seattle must have a small group of bean counters who sit in a conference room and brain-storm ideas on how to squeeze more cash from passengers.  This is the result of that group.

But instead of blasting HAL for trying to charge for another traditional feature of cruising that used to be included, this thread has drifted to people who say they would never order a 2nd entree, other people who tell us that we should be totaling our caloric intake when we are cruising, and others who are "fat-shaming" people who are on vacation and who may have a different appetite.  Some people eat like birds, others like a horse.   Why is it anyone's business to ridicule other people on what they eat ?

CC members have said that they are sure that key people in Seattle read these posts and react to them.   So, get this thread back on track, and blast HAL for slowly picking away at items and services that were included in the basic cabin fare, and now they charge for. 

What's next ?? 

Charging for in-room breakfast delivery, 

"oh... that dessert is an up-charge", 

"you want to reserve a table in anytime dining, that will cost you", 

"sorry those particular chairs in the main stage are premium seating and will cost you extra to sit there". 

"that Dive-In burger that is free in the Lido will cost you if you want it delivered to your cabin.... oops, I forgot, they already slipped that one by us".   

 

It doesn't matter if you would never order a 2nd entree, you're missing the point, it's the basic idea that slowly, little things that used to be included in your basic fare are now up-charges.    

Edited by TAD2005

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2 minutes ago, TAD2005 said:

But instead of blasting HAL for trying to charge for another traditional feature of cruising that used to be included, this thread has drifted to people who say they would never order a 2nd entree, other people who tell us that we should be totaling are caloric intake when we are cruising, and others who are "fat-shaming" people who are on vacation and who may have a different appetite.  Some people eat like birds, others like a horse.   Why is it anyone's business to ridicule other people on what they eat ?

 

Thank you!  That absolutely needed to be said.  And you said it much more politely than I could have managed 👍

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7 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

Hence order a salad,  some  soup bases on legumes can  be excellent for fiber too  I side of veg is a possibility if you crave it  and a potato of some form with meat.     Thats  if your eating  for total nutrition long term.    BUT  on a cruise its  for most 7 to 10 days and sedentary or nor real active  so I'd rather cut the amount I eat in all categories.   After the cruise all you want to have is memories not 3 more inches on the waist.     I sail or try to sail 21+ days  and need to pace the experience..   No Gimmie that, more

 

Be sure to tack on the "empty calories" provided by alcohol, that add heavily to the daily calorie consumption when cruising.

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27 minutes ago, TAD2005 said:

Let's get back to the OP's original topic.   This is supposed to be about another "cash grab' tactic that some moron in Seattle thought would be another way to squeeze more money out of passengers.  They can't raise the basic cruise price because that would turn people away, so they find other ways to nickle and dime you for "extras" that used to be included............

 

 

You made your own argument for Seattle  (see bolding) ...... and for many of the rest of us us who would rather take the lower cruise prices, than subsidize over-consumption or wasteful consumption,  even if it is a  "traditional" part of cruising.

 

One reason we also stay away from "all inclusive" cruise pricing - we don't drink. How much has the new requirement to support so many special demand diets of late also cut into the bottom line, since those extra service menus don't carry a surcharge but take a lot more staff and preparation time and special facilities, along with huge liability issues for the cruise line,  if not followed precisely. 

 

You are right, we really don't know what the Seattle bean counters are doing but they do always have to be sensitive to that illusive sweet spot between pricing and customer demand.

Edited by OlsSalt

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We were on the Nieuw Amsterdam last week, Feb 17-24 on a Western Caribbean cruise.  We ate in the MDR six of the seven nights and the $10 charge was at the bottom of the entree page every single night.  

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I'm OK with Seattle setting an additional charge, be it $5 or $25 for an additional Main Course.  Keep the base price of a cruise within reason.  If someone wants extra, let them pay.  Maybe a "package"  - for an additional $25/day, you may eat all you want in the MDR.  Like the beverage packages - you want more/better, you pay extra over the base price of the cruise.  Makes sense to me.

 

Oh, I forgot - Honolulu - Pig and The Lady.  Popup at the Farmers market at KCC - they now have a restaurant, too.   

Edited by slidergirl

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44 minutes ago, TAD2005 said:

Let's get back to the OP's original topic.   This is supposed to be about another "cash grab' tactic that some moron in Seattle thought would be another way to squeeze more money out of passengers. 

I suspect that the average reader of this thread is less upset by the $10 charge than by the way it was introduced. Or, more accurately, the manner in which it wasn't introduced to the HAL community. As others have correctly pointed out, HAL must continue to generate new or increased revenue streams if they are to offer competitive booking prices for their cruises. I've no idea how many passengers order a second entrée, or will continue to order one if they have to pay for it, but I personally think that the potential revenue is minimal at best and not worth the annoyance for passengers. 

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1 hour ago, TAD2005 said:

Let's get back to the OP's original topic.   This is supposed to be about another "cash grab' tactic that some moron in Seattle thought would be another way to squeeze more money out of passengers.  They can't raise the basic cruise price because that would turn people away, so they find other ways to nickle and dime you for "extras" that used to be included.

The ability to sample different menu items, or order multiple menu items has been traditional in the cruise industry for decades.   Seattle must have a small group of bean counters who sit in a conference room and brain-storm ideas on how to squeeze more cash from passengers.  This is the result of that group.

 

Quote

It doesn't matter if you would never order a 2nd entree, you're missing the point, it's the basic idea that slowly, little things that used to be included in your basic fare are now up-charges.    

 

Well said!

 

Your post finally crystallized for me what bothers me about this change. It's the erosion of the feeling of graciousness that one always used to have on a cruise. Yes, I know we are paying guests and yes, it is a bit of an illusion, but one of the enjoyable things about being on a cruise versus being in a big hotel somewhere is the feeling of warmth, of graciousness, of "nothing is too much trouble" that I have always experienced on cruises.  

 

Nothing says gracious like "You wanna try another entree bub?  Better pony up another ten bucks."

 

This is just another nail in the coffin.

 

 

Edited by cruisemom42

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The cruise tradition of generous hospitality really is something very, very special, and it is definitely an eroding tradition. But...in all fairness, there is a two-way relationship between the cruise operator and the "guest."

People really do consume a lot more than in times past, and it would be hard for a business operator to keep up.  So when I really think about it realistically, it has to be acceptable to charge for "overconsumption."  So I guess I agree with those who say keep the cruise fares at a fair level and let people pick and choose what they want to pay extra for.  Will I pay for an extra entree?  Naw.  But some people will.  I do, though, wonder how many customers will be driven away by this nickel/dime line item.  If HAL pins its hopes on bookings by skinny people who smoke....well, good luck on that.

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The reasoning  of why they are doing this is that I was told it was to "keep offering premium food without increasing prices" and to "reduce waste". 

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2 hours ago, TAD2005 said:

Let's get back to the OP's original topic.   This is supposed to be about another "cash grab' tactic that some moron in Seattle thought would be another way to squeeze more money out of passengers.  They can't raise the basic cruise price because that would turn people away, so they find other ways to nickle and dime you for "extras" that used to be included.

The ability to sample different menu items, or order multiple menu items has been traditional in the cruise industry for decades.   Seattle must have a small group of bean counters who sit in a conference room and brain-storm ideas on how to squeeze more cash from passengers.  This is the result of that group.

But instead of blasting HAL for trying to charge for another traditional feature of cruising that used to be included, this thread has drifted to people who say they would never order a 2nd entree, other people who tell us that we should be totaling our caloric intake when we are cruising, and others who are "fat-shaming" people who are on vacation and who may have a different appetite.  Some people eat like birds, others like a horse.   Why is it anyone's business to ridicule other people on what they eat ?

CC members have said that they are sure that key people in Seattle read these posts and react to them.   So, get this thread back on track, and blast HAL for slowly picking away at items and services that were included in the basic cabin fare, and now they charge for. 

What's next ?? 

Charging for in-room breakfast delivery, 

"oh... that dessert is an up-charge", 

"you want to reserve a table in anytime dining, that will cost you", 

"sorry those particular chairs in the main stage are premium seating and will cost you extra to sit there". 

"that Dive-In burger that is free in the Lido will cost you if you want it delivered to your cabin.... oops, I forgot, they already slipped that one by us".   

 

It doesn't matter if you would never order a 2nd entree, you're missing the point, it's the basic idea that slowly, little things that used to be included in your basic fare are now up-charges.    

Thank you for your post. I experienced/was the recipient of this attitude of others shaming others while on the cruise...my first cruise with HAL so maybe this is the norm? I see it on this forum and in real life too. Not my style for sure. 

 

Another thing that needs to be pointed out is that some of the entrees in the MDR are free on the Lido. IDK if this was the usual as this is my first (and last) HAL cruise. I wanted to try different things on the MDR menu, so I had to trot upstairs to avoid the 10 fee. 

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32 minutes ago, DrSea said:

Thank you for your post. I experienced/was the recipient of this attitude of others shaming others while on the cruise...my first cruise with HAL so maybe this is the norm? I see it on this forum and in real life too. Not my style for sure. 

 

Another thing that needs to be pointed out is that some of the entrees in the MDR are free on the Lido. IDK if this was the usual as this is my first (and last) HAL cruise. I wanted to try different things on the MDR menu, so I had to trot upstairs to avoid the 10 fee. 

Wow. I am so sorry you were ill treated onboard. That is simply inexcusable. I hope wherever you cruise in the future, it is a good one.

Edited by fatcat04

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2 hours ago, AncientWanderer said:

The cruise tradition of generous hospitality really is something very, very special, and it is definitely an eroding tradition. But...in all fairness, there is a two-way relationship between the cruise operator and the "guest."

People really do consume a lot more than in times past, and it would be hard for a business operator to keep up.  So when I really think about it realistically, it has to be acceptable to charge for "overconsumption."  So I guess I agree with those who say keep the cruise fares at a fair level and let people pick and choose what they want to pay extra for.  Will I pay for an extra entree?  Naw.  But some people will.  I do, though, wonder how many customers will be driven away by this nickel/dime line item.  If HAL pins its hopes on bookings by skinny people who smoke....well, good luck on that.

I think they are also driving away familes, their future target democratic, 

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6 hours ago, killsport said:

I wonder if some people's opinions on what is "right" for other people would be acceptable if it was something they preferred.

1. No cruising, as it wastes fossil fuels

2. Only flush once a day to conserve water

3. Only 10-15 minutes in the sun all day to reduce cancer risks

4. Music must be played at below 85 decibels to avoid hearing loss

It is my hard-earned vacation and I expect to do/try things that I can't/don't do at home...

Like tasting different foods. Like eating a second entree. Like having a dessert at an odd hour. Like sitting on a balcony. Like having a glass of wine before 6pm. Like visiting different locations. Like talking to people I haven't met before. Like listening to live music of different genres. Like having salmon/lox at breakfast. Like having a burger and fries because they smell or look good. This is vacation, not everyday/routine time.

As long as I'm not interfering with others (e.g. being loud, obnoxious, smelly, blocking the view), why would anyone care what I do?

That is what I was thinking. Thank you for saying it! If someone wants to over eat, that is their business. 

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7 hours ago, DrSea said:

The reasoning  of why they are doing this is that I was told it was to "keep offering premium food without increasing prices" and to "reduce waste". 

 

Those are very sound and legitimate reasons.

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52 minutes ago, *Miss G* said:

 

Those are very sound and legitimate reasons.

Well, not really. The cost of food is minimal, and the savings in labor is minimal, if any. It is purely an opportunity for additional revenue (which, of course, is what a company aims to do).

Unfortunately, this is heading towards NCL, where everything is an add on except the absolute basics. That is certainly a valid business approach, but with so many choices in cruising, I would think that Carnival Corp (the parent company) would use other brands to attack that segment rather than alienate customers. Soon you'll see Spirit Air / HAL comparisons. Maybe a future partnership? I can see the advertising - "Lowest price! Join us for an amazing cruise*"

* breathing available for $2/hr; exclamations are extra

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So far, unless I have missed it, this new policy has only been reported on the NA, so it may be a trial, that hopefully will fail before it goes fleet wide. For me the only reason I would need a second entree would be if my first choice was not what I thought it was or over cooked. If I am served a steak or prime rib that was served well done when I ordered medium rare and sent back will I be charged the $10?  

 

The nickel and dimming by mainstream cruise lines will continue as long as they can get away with it. I remember when the airline industry started charging for checked baggage and how upset thier customers were, now it is one of the most profitable line items  for most airlines and is accepted as just part of the cost of air travel.

Edited by terrydtx

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According to Carnival Corp's latest annual report, food costs (which include cost for the crew and passengers) is only 7.65% of the cruise fare (or 5.65% of overall revenue). So if you are paying $1000 cruise fare (not including taxes, fees, additional purchases) for your week on HAL, your food cost (and your portion of crew that get fed for that week) is about $76.50.

So cost saving on that 2nd entree (which is freely available in the Lido) - for the 10-20% of people who want it - is pennies. However, additional revenue of $10 for those pennies is a great return. Let's be honest -- it's a money grab. I don't like it at all, and it changes my opinion of where HAL ranks in the cruise hierarchy. That said, it may be a sound financial decision for the company.

Source: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/815097/000081509719000004/a201810k.pdf

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At least the clique showed up to educate us on what and how much we should be eating.:classic_rolleyes:

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I find it intriguing that some you go around the ship calculating others caloric needs and comparing it to what they're consuming.

 

While you Puritans are eating your 3 oz. steamed lobster tail with a squeeze of lemon and drinking a glass of water, Roz is going to be on the Lido deck out by the pool enjoying her Dive-In Dog and a cold Amstel. 

 

Roz

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