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PapaSquatch

Cruisers and terrorism

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5 minutes ago, Aplmac said:

.

Geez, they definitely knew what they were doing, huh??

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Sea Diamond sinks in the Aegean.jpg

While I have nothing but scorn for Schettino, at least he didn't take those passengers into Arctic waters without proper training, repeatedly, and put it on a television series.

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1 hour ago, sfaaa said:

Never mess with a dude with AK47 and finger on the trigger.

 

It's not on the trigger.  His finger is right where its supposed to be; along the frame.

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Anyone remember the pirate attack on the Seabourn Spirit?

 

image.thumb.png.9e9663232e8d9bf028491f587c036be7.png

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1 minute ago, Aquahound said:

Anyone remember the pirate attack on the Seabourn Spirit?

 

image.thumb.png.9e9663232e8d9bf028491f587c036be7.png

Yep, and the other RPG bounced off the stern without detonating.

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1 hour ago, SteveH2508 said:

Quite a few ex-Gurkhas work as security for NCL. I spotted their crossed kukri badges - they spotted my UK veterans badge - thumbs up of mutual recognition.

 

I was always VERY glad that they were on our side!

There are two types of Gurkhas. The ones from Her Majesty's Armed Forces - 100% professional and switched-on. The ones from Indian Army - not as much.

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7 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

There are two types of Gurkhas. The ones from Her Majesty's Armed Forces - 100% professional and switched-on. The ones from Indian Army - not as much.

These guys were definitely ex British Army. They knew the 'Squaddie slang'; training areas; units; kit - the works. I can suss out a Walt pretty quickly - these guys were the real deal.

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18 hours ago, SteveH2508 said:

Quite a few ex-Gurkhas work as security for NCL. I spotted their crossed kukri badges - they spotted my UK veterans badge - thumbs up of mutual recognition.

 

I was always VERY glad that they were on our side!

 

OH YES.

 

I have worked with some working private security.  Very nice people, but I would NOT want them mad at me. 😄

 

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I really appreciated your question, it was definitely something I’ve thought about, it’s nice to get all that information puts my mind at ease!

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I was a passenger on a HAL ship in 2010 when a male passenger in his 50's punched a woman in her 80's in the face because he felt she was not walking fast enough when we were disembarking.All of a sudden about 30 armed officers appeared and took the guy down.

I would think that all cruise ships have security officers.

 

Several years ago there was a movie about the hijacking of a cruise ship by both officers of the ship as well as passengers.I always believed that this could be a possibility.

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Well, I guess that anything is possible -- the real question: is it probable? All I know is that I feel safer on a cruise ship than I do in any airport -- and most public buildings, these days!

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1 hour ago, lenquixote66 said:

I was a passenger on a HAL ship in 2010 when a male passenger in his 50's punched a woman in her 80's in the face because he felt she was not walking fast enough when we were disembarking.All of a sudden about 30 armed officers appeared and took the guy down.

I would think that all cruise ships have security officers.

 

Several years ago there was a movie about the hijacking of a cruise ship by both officers of the ship as well as passengers.I always believed that this could be a possibility.

I would suspect that the armed personnel were from shore, since as a Dutch flag vessel, HAL ships have not had permission to carry arms on their vessels until just last year.

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30 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

I was a passenger on a HAL ship in 2010 when a male passenger in his 50's punched a woman in her 80's in the face because he felt she was not walking fast enough when we were disembarking.All of a sudden about 30 armed officers appeared and took the guy down.

 

I would think that all cruise ships have security officers.

 

I suggest that all mainstream cruise lines have Security Officers providing law enforcement, but every ship is required to have a Ship Security Officer (SSO). The International Ship and Port Facility Security Code (ISPS) requires every ship to have a Ship Security Manual, which requires a SSO. The SSO is accountable to the Master for ensuring compliance with the provisions included in the security manual.

 

The ISPS Code outlines the roles and experience requirements for the SSO. The experience requirements are fairly broad and generally can be met by Armed Forces, Law Enforcement or Deck Officers. On most mainstream cruise lines, the SSO role is most likely performed by the Security Officer (SECO), with most of them having a Armed Forces and/or Law Enforcement background.

 

In addition to conducting law enforcement with pax & crew they also accountable to the Master for performing all the other roles required by the SSO. On smaller cruise ships, ferries and cargo ships the SSO role can be assigned to the Chief Deck Officer.

 

Therefore, while most Security Officers manage a staff that provide law enforcement services, they are also responsible for implementing the Ship Security Manual. This is a secure document that resides with the Master and the contents are on a need to know basis. In addition to on-board resources, the security manual may require hiring external resources in some parts of the world to ensure the safety of the ship. 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/17/2019 at 10:15 PM, PapaSquatch said:

Maybe this has been discussed but I missed it. If so, I apologize up front.

 

I wanted to be in security/law enforcement up till my 20's. I'm 53 now. God had other plans, so I am not in that field. But, it's still a big passion of mine. Now that I've put that out there, on with my questions. I'm positive the questions will make some nervous from "never thought of that" to I have an "alternative" reason for asking. I also know, for security reasons, any answers to the questions could be very generic because the real answer does not need to be in the public eye. I'm not seeking specific information, but I would like enough information to calm the mind.

 

My Queen and I have cruised once on Disney and twice on Royal Caribbean. We are looking at different cruiselines for this year. I have never seen any official security aboard the ships. I know they are there, and I'm sure they have special training and weapons needed for a violent onboard incident. Am I correct? Or is security simply there for the occasional disruptive guest or crime?

This next question is what concerns me most. When at port, whether on day one or at the various destinations, the ships are relatively safe. But what about when at sea? Cruising the Caribbean, Cuba, Bahamas, etc, ships are close enough to land masses for smaller sea going vessels to come up to the ships. Small aircraft especially could reach a ship.

Have the cruiselines taking any recourses to thwart an at sea attack? Are cruise ships prepared for a physical attack from sea or air, and are they prepared for a potential "boarding"? By sea, a potential threat could be identified early, hopefully early enough. The height of the ships side would make boarding difficult, but not impossible. Aircraft gives a whole other threat level though. Cruiseship cannot defend agaist that unless there are deck guns under the waterslides.

 

I hope I am not asking a potentially unanswerable question, but for security reasons I understand.

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

Wow, I haven't given a moment's thought to any of this.

And I still don't.

Life is too short to spend time worrying  and obsessing about EXTREME low probability events.  If you have to find something to worry and obsess about, there are many many better alternatives.  Traffic accidents, getting cancer, botched medical procedure, hometown crime, to name a few.

Or, you could just recognize that we are all going to die someday, and an instant after it happens, how it happened won't matter - so just live your life and enjoy it while you can.


Your life is far more likely to be shortened by the stress of worrying about terrorist attacks than it is to be shortened by an actual terrorist attack.

Edited by Toofarfromthesea

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On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 10:38 PM, Aquahound said:

Cruise ships might seem like soft targets but they're really not.  You mentioned you were concerned about them while at sea cruising the Caribbean, etc.  First, like chengkp75 said, it is almost impossible to board a cruise ship at speed.  Two, it would be extremely difficult to plan for an attack at sea on a cruise ship without intelligence agencies picking up on it.  

 

As for on board security...you won't see specific security plans online, but I assure you they are pretty well prepared.  In my line of work, I've had the privilege of getting to know several on on-board security staff.  Many have very interesting backgrounds like Special Forces, etc.  

Not to mention the multitude of people needed to round up and then contain all the passengers if they managed to board.

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9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I would suspect that the armed personnel were from shore, since as a Dutch flag vessel, HAL ships have not had permission to carry arms on their vessels until just last year.

They were HAL employees . This was on the Zweiderdam cruise from Anchorage to Vancouver .

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Let me start by saying I have been a very active world traveler for over fifty years.  Even now (in my 70s) both DW and I consider ourselves adventurous travelers/cruisers and generally go off on our own in most places around the world.  And the real "horror" is we live in Mexico for part of the year....where we feel far safer then just about anywhere in the USA (go figure).

 

Life is full of risk and we gamble every time we walk up or down steps (one could fall, hit their head, and die) or go out of the house.  One takes a risk driving a car, crossing the street, eating food, etc, etc.  Most folks handle day to day activities without being overly concerned about security and it is the same for many travelers.  For those that choose (or obsess) on their personal security...there is nothing any of us can say or do to ease their anxiety.  If you choose to live your life by always worrying about "what can happen" or if you have that type of uncontrollable obsession, then you have put yourself into a prison of your own making.  Like most who are in prison, you make your own bed and must live in it!  

 

So let us be very honest.  Risk is part of life and most of us handle it without a lot of thought.  Others have personal issues which can go to the extreme such as folks who suffer with agoraphobia!   We have actually met a few folks (on our cruises) who ask us for advice on how to do ports DIY and then tell us that they are afraid to leave the ship unless they are part of a cruise line excursion.   They explain that although they would like to do things on their own, they just cannot deal with all the anxiety of doing their own thing, making their own decisions, and constantly worrying about missing the ship.  And our quick response to those folks is "take cruise line excursions"  (while I am thinking...please do not waste my time asking for DIY advice).

 

Are cruise ships at risk of a terrorist incident?  Yes, just like just about anything these days.  The reality is that your risk is greater in ports and just getting from home to ship (and vice versa).  Although this sounds somewhat "insensitive" (a too popular word these days) you either learn to live with your personal insecurities or suffer the consequences.  We have a few friends that are truly afraid to travel (they could probably write a book about all their fears) so they just stay at home (or near home).  

 

On a lighter note, DW one bought me a T-Shirt that had written on it, in Italian, " Schettino, get back on your ship"  The actual words are not appropriate for a T-shirt so that is watered down (pun intended).

 

When it comes to terrorists, when we let them dictate how we live our lives they have won!

 

Hank

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My wife and I travel for safety sake, we once read a report that over 90% of accidents happen in the home.😁

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A few years back, we boarded a cruise ship and noticed security personnel were actually former military personnel from Israel, my husband speaks Hebrew, lived in Israel for 12 years and was in the army before immigrating to the USA.  He noticed them right off and spoke to them in Hebrew.  We later invited them to our cabin for a social hour during their off duty time.  We learn the cruise line hired  them because of their training.  Part of their responsibilities included using scuba gear to check out the ship below the water line when in ports.  I am sure there are a lot of security issues considered by cruise lines.  I mention this one because it something not obvious. 

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2 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

My wife and I travel for safety sake, we once read a report that over 90% of accidents happen in the home.😁

 

Yep, and most traffic accidents happen near home.  Both true stats.  Of course the exposure is greater in or near home because that is where folks spend most of their time.  

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When I first read this question I thought this sounds a little paranoid but😕 reading the answers it is actually quite interesting and enlightening👍about the behind the scenes of ship life. However in terms of terrorism I feel the more likelihood would be someone planting a bomb or hiding an arsenal to go on a shooting spree rather than hostage taking or hijacking. I would assume some sort of check is done to make sure there is no tampering of a ship. I doubt such information would ever be made public but I do wonder if anything has ever been discovered on a cruise ship🤔

 

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1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

Yep, and most traffic accidents happen near home.  Both true stats.  Of course the exposure is greater in or near home because that is where folks spend most of their time.  

Another reason not to hang around my neighbourhood.

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20 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Life is too short to spend time worrying  and obsessing about EXTREME low probability events.  If you have to find something to worry and obsess about, there are many many better alternatives.  Traffic accidents, getting cancer, botched medical procedure, hometown crime, to name a few.

 

Yeap, people worry about hijacking or terrorism or mass shooting event, when in the US alone, 100 people day EVERY DAY in traffic mishaps.

 

And the deaths from medical errors are 2 times up to 10 time, depending on the study.

 

So just cars and doctors kill 300 or more people per day.

 

The problem is, these happen day in and day out.  So people don't worry about them.  They are more worried about events that happen once a year to 20 people.

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10 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

My wife and I travel for safety sake, we once read a report that over 90% of accidents happen in the home.😁

 

And for the same reason of safety, If my car expires I leave it in the fast lane because statistically almost all accidents involving broken-down vehicles happen on the safety shoulder.

 

We both think logically, yet others thing we're stupid. :classic_rolleyes: :classic_biggrin:

 

JB :classic_smile:

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6 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

Another reason not to hang around my neighbourhood.

 

😃😃😃

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