Impact of pricing drops on upgrade bids

[hiccups]

18 minutes ago, uktog said:

Hi

No it was the 10 night from Rome to Barcelona

Thanks!  The OV pricing for that cruise is okay, but anything above that, no way!  So maybe it was a mistake in your email.

Also, I judge "okay" by whether I'd be willing to pay that price, and I'm cheap  🙂

[tgg]

1 hour ago, uktog said:

Hi

No it was the 10 night from Rome to Barcelona

The interline rate for a balcony cabin on this cruise is $1,500 plus taxes and fees - so I think it's possible that the excess inventory is being dumped with a consolidator for a bargain price.

[uktog]

10 minutes ago, tgg said:

The interline rate for a balcony cabin on this cruise is $1,500 plus taxes and fees - so I think it's possible that the excess inventory is being dumped with a consolidator for a bargain price.

Wow that is a dump price as you say 

Hiccups - the price was actually gathered from azamara website booking process i.e. the web page not the email itself.  Anyway its been removed and probably given as tgg has found to others to reduce any guest kick back.

[hiccups]

26 minutes ago, tgg said:

The interline rate for a balcony cabin on this cruise is $1,500 plus taxes and fees - so I think it's possible that the excess inventory is being dumped with a consolidator for a bargain price.

 

I've never heard of a interline rate, so I looked online.  To verify, it's a rate for cruise/airline/resort employees?

 

I know we can't talk about consolidators or any other TAs here, but boy, when some of you talk about the package pricing you've seen, I wish we could!  Guess I need to do more googling.

[marinaro44]

2 hours ago, tgg said:

The interline rate for a balcony cabin on this cruise is $1,500 plus taxes and fees - so I think it's possible that the excess inventory is being dumped with a consolidator for a bargain price.

I'll be expecting an email from America's great northwest.

[Mackdogmolly]

I’m never booking really early again either, although for European cruises I then run the risk of pricier flights. I booked my upcoming Alaska cruise at a decent price, but when it was reduced I wasn’t allowed to rebook. Now with the new “sale”, it is actually much pricier! It’s all a crap shoot.

[uktog]

Pricing is crazy, our cruise has now dropped to £2498 for 2 in a guaranteed verandah on Azamara’s website 😡😡

[Lottie A]

1 hour ago, uktog said:

Pricing is crazy, our cruise has now dropped to £2498 for 2 in a guaranteed verandah on Azamara’s website 😡😡

What on earth is going on? Makes me even more determined to wait for late deals now. That can't be a good business plan for Azamara if a significant amount of people do that. 

[procter]

Well,

Just checked on nd if you want to book a specific balcony cabin on website it  is £7214  to £7490 but take a chance and it is as Ann says it is £2498???!!!

As a shareholder good luck but no sensible customer will ever book again early if they see this more than once.

 

Bonnie Just what is going on ?

Book with a UK agent and get 2 nights Rome 4 star hotel  /flights / 3 transfers airport hotel, hotel azamara,  azamara barcelona airport.and Grand Prix ticket included. for £2999 and price match if it gets any crazier!!!

Edited April 14, 2019 by procter
additional info

[Riocca]

It’s difficult to know what is the best booking strategy, used to be booking early but now it’s a lottery.

As an example last March we booked a CC suite on Quest for October this year using an Cruise later booking to get the LCV discount. As our usual favourite location was already booked we chose one nearby that we already had a booking for in September last year. Come September we decided we didn’t like the location of that suite so thought about moving but there was nothing suitable then I noticed that a CW suite was £1100 (including LCV discounts) more than we were already paying which was less than Azamara were offering upgrades for on the old system. Plus we would get $900 OBC so it seemed worth losing the £150 Cruise Later deposit to move, so we did, as it happens we were unaware of the rule change earlier in 2018 regarding the Cruise Later deposit which did cause problems that were resolved amicably by our travel agent with Azamara, one good reason for using a travel agent.

Anyway as we have a best price guarantee for booking onboard I have monitored this cruise, under the last BOGOHO offer the price for a CW was £6000 more than we are paying and even a CC was £700 more. Under the current offer it’s still over a £1000 more.

This isn’t just an Azamara problem we have encountered it with various cruise lines, I can remember P&O selling Owners Suites on Adonia for less than we were paying for a Balcony cabin after final payment and being totally intransigent about being able to upgrade.

[uktog]

Yes it is all a confusion.  The trouble is when we asked about using the best price guarantee late last year we were advised we lost all our onboard booking advantages which is another perk that works against the most loyal guests as we have most to lose. Obviously a drop of 10% it does still work, however the big drops are all timed to happen after the guarantee runs out so for us its not really a guarantee we feel we can rely on.  Our loyalty has so few benefits now whereas a year ago we would have said oh well, there is still value in being loyal, we are moving on to our new strategy.

 

We have checked Procters offer and it is even more galling as we have paid for our flights and GP tickets.  Anyway without a doubt no Europe bookings has a change in approach whereas up to now, we were 100% loyal to Azamara.  Now for next year we will start looking about two months before cruising and will look at all premium small ship cruise lines not just Azamara.  So its not a farewell Azamara but they have opened the doors to others.

[Lottie A]

I normally go for what I think is a reasonable price when I book any cruise and then don't cause myself any angst by looking further at price drops once I have paid the final balance.  However this current Azamara price differential is getting to me big time. I have just looked on the well known British website referred to by Procter and UKtog and there are some great late deals on Pursuit.  They are at P&O prices ...,or even better. 

 

They range from £1199 for a 9 nighter in an OV in May on Pursuit and £1349 for a Balcony with many prices in between. The 9 night May 14th cruise on Pursuit seems particularly good value. Strangely the 3 nighter on June 7th has gone up in price at £1099 pp for an OV. Not many CC suites available though so presumably people have bid for upgrades and now the lower level cabins they had booked are being sold off at a bargain price. Solo prices don't seem to have dropped much... if at all. 

 

So it seems that Azamara has indeed got its pricing structure wrong for these standard Med cruises. My own cruise on May 28th has dropped in price as well. I only booked it a couple of weeks ago and I thought I had a good deal then. It's much better now. As UKtog says....lessons have been learnt. I am retiring in June and will then be able to do very late bookings....which is what I intend to do for Med cruises in the future, as I can fly from any London or Midlands airport now. I won't be doing any onboard bookings for Med cruises now I don't have to book my annual leave in advance. The downgrading of loyalty benefits and this new bidding upgrade system have seen to that. 

 

Good Luck to any UK pax who can take advantage of these late deals. I'm sure the US T/A's will have them as well. 

 

 

[tgg]

1 hour ago, Lottie A said:

 

 

Good Luck to any UK pax who can take advantage of these late deals. I'm sure the US T/A's will have them as well. 

 

 

 

The challenge for those of us who live in the US lies in the airfare.  If the TA puts a package together, the air connections can include multiple stops with very long layovers. If you book your own flights, you may eat up any savings on the cruise because you're booking flights late in the game. The winners in all this are those who have lots of airline miles that they can use at the last minute. (Not me unfortunately.)

[BBMacLaird]

My best guess is there are a few close-in departures with some space to fill.

It is industry standard to selectively discount the last few cabins, most often in a local market where airfare will either not be necessary or not be priced at a premium.

The first cruise line I worked for was American Hawaii Cruises. We marketed our last minute space under the label Kama’aina Fares. Locals never knew if there’d be space on a sailing, if so what category. Point being, this practice goes back since the beginning because owners/shareholders rate a line’s success by both bottom line AND occupancy.

It is still best to book early and lock in the cabin you want, assuming of course it is at a price you can afford. All the rest is a gamble.

[uktog]

1 hour ago, tgg said:

 

The challenge for those of us who live in the US lies in the airfare.  If the TA puts a package together, the air connections can include multiple stops with very long layovers. If you book your own flights, you may eat up any savings on the cruise because you're booking flights late in the game. The winners in all this are those who have lots of airline miles that they can use at the last minute. (Not me unfortunately.)

Yes that’s why the Alaska bargains don’t work for the Brits. Last minute is only good if you have access to the right flight options at a good price. 

 

I appreciate a later booking is a gamble, but I am prepared to take it now I have more flexibility and having recognised the limited value in being loyal. In Europe I’m not after a set itinerary so given the increasing level of capacity in the premium market it’s not a big risk. I’d rather do that than pay hugely over the odds for a cruise. I appreciate that might not be the perspective from the cruise line but it is how we currently feel. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by uktog

[Lottie A]

Just checked the inventory still available on just one of the discounted cruises Bonnie. 

 

At a rough count there are still more than 70 cabins available. I don't consider that "some space to fill". I consider that a "lot of space to fill" for a cruise departing quite soon. Hence the comments about the wrong pricing to start with and now the deep discounting. I suppose the unsold cabins will be given to a US cruise consolidater very soon. 

 

I wish I was retiring in May instead of June as I would book one of them! 

 

Like UKtog I am willing to take a gamble on a standard Med itinerary and book very late now, rather than pay hugely over the odds for a cruise. It would be different if it's an itinerary that's very unusual or rare of course. 

[Riocca]

I always understood that occupancy rates were important to cruise lines as if they sold off cabins cheaply they would potentially recoup revenue from the onboard spend of those passengers. However I fail to see how this applies to all inclusive or more inclusive lines, if cabins are sold at below break even levels and those passengers have zero onboard spend then it would have been better for those cabins to remain unsold.

Maybe the criteria applied to RCI & Celebrity is being applied to Azamara without thinking about this point.

 

[tgg]

5 minutes ago, Riocca said:

I always understood that occupancy rates were important to cruise lines as if they sold off cabins cheaply they would potentially recoup revenue from the onboard spend of those passengers. However I fail to see how this applies to all inclusive or more inclusive lines, if cabins are sold at below break even levels and those passengers have zero onboard spend then it would have been better for those cabins to remain unsold.

Maybe the criteria applied to RCI & Celebrity is being applied to Azamara without thinking about this point.

 

 

Even on the more inclusive lines, passengers book premium excursions, pay for spa services, buy upscale beverages, and spend money in casinos. And let's not forget the premium goods in the shops. Yes, it's possible to spend nothing extra. But I doubt many people have "zero onboard spend." If a cabin sails without a paying passenger in it, the revenue is $0. If someone pays to occupy that cabin, it's revenue - with the potential for more.

[uktog]

1 minute ago, tgg said:

 

Even on the more inclusive lines, passengers book premium excursions, pay for spa services, buy upscale beverages, and spend money in casinos. And let's not forget the premium goods in the shops. Yes, it's possible to spend nothing extra. But I doubt many people have "zero onboard spend." If a cabin sails without a paying passenger in it, the revenue is $0. If someone pays to occupy that cabin, it's revenue - with the potential for more.

Whilst I totally agree on that, if the discounting turns off booked guests who were regular repeat business that’s a short term gain only. 

Yes Lottie, i had done the cabins maths it’s not the first time we’ve seen these discounts in Europe late on.

[marinaro44]

6 hours ago, uktog said:

Our loyalty has so few benefits now whereas a year ago we would have said oh well, there is still value in being loyal, we are moving on to our new strategy.

This is the core of the issue. 

 

A laundry bag?  Minimal wifi minutes?  A 7 or 10% cruise discount that pales against the packaged deals from the consolidators?  And an edge, "if all else (the insulting bid is the "all else") is equal among two bids," in the new upgrade scheme?  To me, not worth 38 cruises and several hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

And just what does this mean about "set upgrade amounts" in the first FAQ?  Seems to contradict the bidding nonsense.

 

How is Azamara Upgrade an enhancement to LCV members if there are no set upgrade amounts anymore?

 

The original upgrade pricing will remain, starting from $200 up to $598 on select stateroom categories. The great news is that guests have the opportunity to make an offer on a higher category stateroom which was not previously allowed.

[hiccups]

6 hours ago, tgg said:

 

The challenge for those of us who live in the US lies in the airfare.  If the TA puts a package together, the air connections can include multiple stops with very long layovers. If you book your own flights, you may eat up any savings on the cruise because you're booking flights late in the game. The winners in all this are those who have lots of airline miles that they can use at the last minute. (Not me unfortunately.)

I never see TA's that put together packages with airfare in the U.S.  Apparently I need to spend more time Googling  🙂  But my DH doesn't want to fly coach for long haul, so that makes it even more difficult to find flights at a decent price if you're looking at a cruise only 6-12 weeks in the future.

[marinaro44]

22 minutes ago, hiccups said:

But my DH doesn't want to fly coach for long haul, so that makes it even more difficult to find flights at a decent price if you're looking at a cruise only 6-12 weeks in the future.

This may not always be the case but we just booked a Windstar cruise with a [the?] consolidator Azamara uses in the US and Canada and we were able to pay for a business class upgrade for our long haul flight to Reykjavik.  Given the consolidator's price for the package it was still a terrific deal, as are his Azamara packaged deals.

[LuAnn]

15 hours ago, uktog said:

Pricing is crazy, our cruise has now dropped to £2498 for 2 in a guaranteed verandah on Azamara’s website 😡😡

 

WOW...no wonder you posted the "angry face"!! I'd be really upset too!! LuAnn

[LuAnn]

8 hours ago, tgg said:

 

The challenge for those of us who live in the US lies in the airfare.  If the TA puts a package together, the air connections can include multiple stops with very long layovers. If you book your own flights, you may eat up any savings on the cruise because you're booking flights late in the game. The winners in all this are those who have lots of airline miles that they can use at the last minute. (Not me unfortunately.)

 

You are so right about trying to book a decent air fare at a late date...and even if you have airline miles/points most of those allocated seats are snapped up at the 330 day mark when they first become available..which is when we first start looking for mileage awards. I have always booked way far ahead...both to get the lowest price (true in the past) and grab award seats. And living on the west coast...we have even farther to fly to get to Europe!! LuAnn

 

 

[procter]

Bonnie,

It really looks like the pricing guys have rally sc...   ed the pooch with the pricing on what should be a premier cruise ie  Monaco and Grand Prix.

Can you imagine the conversations between loyal Azamaraists and the140 people on  £2498 per couple.

If these people are bargain hunters it is not likely they will be splashing out on spa services/excursions etc but will be no doubt taking advantage of the free alcohol similar to what we saw when 70+ cabins were released on our Seychelles  cruise a couple of years ago.

i believe they were about £50 per person per day and they got their moneys worth from 10.00am to midnight