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Elevator usage by ADA persons

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7 minutes ago, Reader0108598 said:

That is discrimination my disability is no less than anothers. Maybe I am wheezing need to get to my nebulizer quick ,maybe my legs are about to give out due to my back pain! See you cannot say one person deserves more acomadation than another.

 

Sure one can and should apply reasonable accommodations where there is obvious need. Your "examples" are red herrings. The fact is a wheelchair or scooter bound person has very real issues using elevators at busy times. Someone needing to get somewhere more quickly at times does not have the same limitations.

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As a few of us have mentioned, can you envision the Indianapolis 500 scooter/wheelchair race to that one elevator during peak times! Additionally, there would need to be disability police stationed to sort out arguments over who has right to “board” such as we are encountering just in this discussion!

 

I am reminded of the “emotional support dog” attempt to compassionately accomadate certain passengers. Soon that “compassion” to one set of passengers encouraged abuse and created a whole new set of disgruntled passengers.

 

Courtesy and kindness and patience on ALL sides is one answer.  The other would be to assess if the wait times disturb you enough... choose a smaller ship, a different line, or a different type of vacation. When you can’t change a business model or the action of others, you can always change your own choice of vacation venue. Like I said before, if you can’t climb the hills in Positano, go to flat but beautiful Bermuda...don’t expect the Italians to install motorized walkways.

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2 minutes ago, broberts said:

That is discrimination my disability is no less than anothers. Maybe I am wheezing need to get to my nebulizer quick ,maybe my legs are about to give out due to my back pain! See you cannot say one person deserves more acomadation than another.

 

If the case mentioned is that serious then the doctot should be called

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, peterhof said:

If the case mentioned is that serious then the doctot should be called

Why I just need to get back to my room where I have extra meds.I may be waiting for my third elevator also.

 

Edited by Reader0108598

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5 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Sure one can and should apply reasonable accommodations where there is obvious need. Your "examples" are red herrings. The fact is a wheelchair or scooter bound person has very real issues using elevators at busy times. Someone needing to get somewhere more quickly at times does not have the same limitations.

Don't agree but you have your right to your opinion I have mine 🙂

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, peterhof said:

If the case mentioned is that serious then the doctot should be called

 

I don't know how it happened, but this is my post

Somehow you quoted me but the text was replaced with that of the post I was quoting:

 

Edited by broberts

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2 minutes ago, hazence said:

As a few of us have mentioned, can you envision the Indianapolis 500 scooter/wheelchair race to that one elevator during peak times! Additionally, there would need to be disability police stationed to sort out arguments over who has right to “board” such as we are encountering just in this discussion!

 

I am reminded of the “emotional support dog” attempt to compassionately accomadate certain passengers. Soon that “compassion” to one set of passengers encouraged abuse and created a whole new set of disgruntled passengers.

 

Courtesy and kindness and patience on ALL sides is one answer.  The other would be to assess if the wait times disturb you enough... choose a smaller ship, a different line, or a different type of vacation. When you can’t change a business model or the action of others, you can always change your own choice of vacation venue. Like I said before, if you can’t climb the hills in Positano, go to flat but beautiful Bermuda...don’t expect the Italians to install motorized walkways.

 

How rude of you to suggest that we the disabled are somehow second rate citizens and must not go on the same holidays as the fit and able. I must remind you that there are international laws surrounding disabled people and in fact whilst sailing in EU waters there are some very strict extra laws that forbid anybody offering accomodation from excluding and not providing for the disabled.

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Just now, broberts said:

 

I don't know how you did it but this is my post

Somehow you quoted me but the text was replaced with that of the post I was quoting:

 

My apologies I am going to quit while I am behind...lol

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All that is really needed is for people to take their face off their phones for 5 seconds and look around, also wait for others to EXIT the elevator before attempting to enter.  I constantly let those with ambulatory issues go ahead of me.  I can wait for the next one.  Even when we have our child in a stroller we will give up the spot.  Too many people just aren’t paying attention or flat don’t care about others. 

 

I would like to see a dedicated elevator used after muster drill for those in wheelchairs, scooters, strollers for 15 - 20 minutes.  That would be helpful.  The rest of the time I don’t see it as practical 

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1 minute ago, Reader0108598 said:

My apologies I am going to quit while I am behind...lol

 

Yep - good idea - this is a very dark place to go for some people and best not to open that can of worms any further.

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Nice empathy in this thread I see. Let's recap:

 

- Reasonable suggestion for an elevator dedicated to wheelchair/scooter access during certain peak hours

 

Response?

- INVISIBLE DISABILITIES MATTER

-SCREW YOU NANNY STATE, WAIT YOUR TURN

-EMOTIONAL SUPPORT SCOOTERS KILLED MY PARENTS

 

Reality check people, I'm blessed to be able to walk up and down more than 3-4 flights of stairs at a time. I can also wait more than 5-10 minutes. I encourage others who can't to go ahead of me. No, I don't ask questions about what happened or why they are in a chair or scooter. Why?

 

Because we're on vacation, and vacations are fun. Ease up and get the drink package y'all.

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It’s not rude to be realistic about our own limitations, my own included. I can certainly legally book any vacation I want...but I must also take personal responsibility in those choices. The cruise line has provided elevators, rooms etc that accommodate wheelchairs in accordance with all legalities But if you choose a mega ship with thousands of people, you may need to deal with the problems described here in this thread.

 

While you cannot choose to take the stairs, you can choose to take a smaller ship or land based vacation. Courtesy and compassion cannot be controlled by RCCL. 

 

Do you really believe that a designated elevator would not present its own issues? 

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While I have empathy for those with mobility issues, and part of my duties when I was with NCL was to ensure ADA compliance when we reflagged to US, I still don't see a dedicated disabled elevator as a viable solution.  You say you can police this by using a specially flagged S&S card to call the elevator, but when it arrives, do the able bodied family members of the pax in a scooter get to board the elevator, or do they have to use a non-disabled elevator?  What is to stop anyone who is able bodied from entering the elevator once a special card has brought it to the deck and the person in a scooter has boarded?

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If there was a way to enforce it, this would be a feasible issue. As it stands now, the people who truly physically needed the assistance would be outweighed (literally and figuratively) by the people who 1) feel entitled to something whether or not they need it and 2) the people who are too lazy to walk and use a scooter to move from one food venue to another. 

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3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While I have empathy for those with mobility issues, and part of my duties when I was with NCL was to ensure ADA compliance when we reflagged to US, I still don't see a dedicated disabled elevator as a viable solution.  You say you can police this by using a specially flagged S&S card to call the elevator, but when it arrives, do the able bodied family members of the pax in a scooter get to board the elevator, or do they have to use a non-disabled elevator?  What is to stop anyone who is able bodied from entering the elevator once a special card has brought it to the deck and the person in a scooter has boarded?

 

NCL seems to have no issue closing off elevators at peak debarkation times for the suites. I imagine similar practices with attendants would be fine. And yes, you could have people in the same room as the wheelchair/scooter person so with them, your card would be registered to that ADA room.

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If my wife and I are within four decks of our destination we use the stairs. I think if able bodied people would use the stairs for one or two flights I think the crowding would be greatly alleviated. The crowding after muster or after shows is hard to avoid able bodied or not. I don't think a person with a disability would be able to get through the crowd to a certain elevator during those times. If people were more courteous to others around this would not be as much of an issue. Just my feeling.   

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5 minutes ago, Paelos said:

 

NCL seems to have no issue closing off elevators at peak debarkation times for the suites. I imagine similar practices with attendants would be fine. And yes, you could have people in the same room as the wheelchair/scooter person so with them, your card would be registered to that ADA room.

 But should they ALL go with them, while other disabled wait...when they can take the stairs? These are debates that will arise.

in my own family, we are dealing with issues that frustrate our ability to do certain previous “favorite” things. We just have created new favorite things and feel blessed to do them. There’s plenty of wonderful choices out there...and we CAN choose those things. If we insist on doing things that now involve frustration or increased difficulty, we keep a personal awareness that we MADE that choice, knowing those drawbacks.

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50% of the replies here amount to: "Whatever we do, there will be problems. So let's not do anything."

 

Now there is the type of problem-solving mindset that defines ingenuity.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, peterhof said:

Getting to the muster call is ok, as all the elevators are available only to the disabled - however, when the muster drill is over, the whole ship wants either to get back to their cabin or somewhere else than where they are at the moment. Consequencly wheelchair/scooter users have to wait litterally an hour sometimes to get in an elevator. This annoys me as 90% of the passengers could easily walk down the stairs - I cannot in any way.

Please can you enlighten me on what ship do you have to wait an hour for a lift? The worst we have waited is approximately 15- 20 minutes after muster drill, with my son's wheelchair.  

 

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1 hour ago, Paelos said:

Nice empathy in this thread I see. Let's recap:

 

- Reasonable suggestion for an elevator dedicated to wheelchair/scooter access during certain peak hours

 

Response?

- INVISIBLE DISABILITIES MATTER

-SCREW YOU NANNY STATE, WAIT YOUR TURN

-EMOTIONAL SUPPORT SCOOTERS KILLED MY PARENTS

 

Reality check people, I'm blessed to be able to walk up and down more than 3-4 flights of stairs at a time. I can also wait more than 5-10 minutes. I encourage others who can't to go ahead of me. No, I don't ask questions about what happened or why they are in a chair or scooter. Why?

 

Because we're on vacation, and vacations are fun. Ease up and get the drink package y'all.

Best response so far!

Congratulations on acting like a kind and decent human!

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I have NEVER waited an hour past muster.  It’s very easy to catch an elevator at peak times without waiting for a dozen of them to pass by first.  

 

Head to the opposite end end of the ship from where the crowd gathers

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2 hours ago, peterhof said:

 

Being disabled myself and having to use either a wheelchair or mobility scooter to get around a ship, I fully appreciate the frustration I embarassingly have to encounter whilst on vacation. For those that are 'able bodied' there is little comprehension of the difficulties that we encounter and I have even been patted on the head in a ship elevator more than once by a condecending fellow passenger and asked if I was having a nice down there!

 

 

Getting to the muster call is ok, as all the elevators are available only to the disabled - however, when the muster drill is over, the whole ship wants either to get back to their cabin or somewhere else than where they are at the moment. Consequencly wheelchair/scooter users have to wait litterally an hour sometimes to get in an elevator. This annoys me as 90% of the passengers could easily walk down the stairs - I cannot in any way.

 

I am very much looking forward to the two RCI cruises we are on this year, but not looking forward to the mayhem that some passengers inflict on me and others. I can understand how children don't give a 'monkeys', but to be insulted time and time again by their parents, who think only of themselves is appalling. These people themselves grow old and the fit and healthy amongst them still treat the less fit like something under their shoe. One holiday that no disabled person should go on is one organised by Saga, as the folk that do go on them think only of themselves and fight to be at the front of every queue (line) to be first in everything.

 

So yes, I think that a designated lift is urgently wanted.

 

 

Speaking of being condescending and entitled......

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12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

What most people don't realize with ship's crew, is that the total hours of labor for the entire crew, from dishwasher to Captain, is a finite quantity, defined by law. 

 

For dishwashers, OK. But there is no exception for the Captain? I mean, even while sleeping he's still being responsible for the safety of thousands of people. I guess the Captain at the Viking Sky during the recent incident worked more hours then permissable, or would he have let the Staff Captain be in control for a few hours while taking his required time of? 

 

A weird legal situation would be when then Captain says someone else must be in command for a few hours, and the second in command decides it's better for everyone to remain the new Captain. 😀

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1 hour ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

For dishwashers, OK. But there is no exception for the Captain? I mean, even while sleeping he's still being responsible for the safety of thousands of people. I guess the Captain at the Viking Sky during the recent incident worked more hours then permissable, or would he have let the Staff Captain be in control for a few hours while taking his required time of? 

 

A weird legal situation would be when then Captain says someone else must be in command for a few hours, and the second in command decides it's better for everyone to remain the new Captain. 😀

There are exemptions for all crew for emergency situations, and even drills, get serious.  However, I don't believe that being an elevator monitor would qualify as an "emergency duty".  But for normal circumstances, no, there is no exception for the Captain, because if the Captain is working too many hours, and not getting sufficient rest, his judgement can become impaired, which is why the work/rest hour limitations were instituted in the first place.

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On 4/29/2019 at 9:54 PM, Ourusualbeach said:

So you said one elevator, is that forward or aft? Or will it be both as surely you wouldn’t want someone to have to traverse the length of the ship to find the dedicated elevator. 

 

You also mentioned peak times.  How do you determine peak times? That could be different for every person so you might as well make it from 7am to midnight.

 

Just  a guess but I would bet that with only one elevator with the number of people on board with mobility issues you would actually wait longer for your dedicated elevator than you would by taking the next available elevator. 

 

Serenade has 3 elevators forward serving the theater.  6 midship, but 2 do not go to the DL/CL lounges.

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