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G.M.T.

Boats Collide in Budapest - 7 Dead

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34 minutes ago, steamboats said:

odysee, it´s a bit more complicated.

 

Yes, the larger vessel has the right of way - usually - if it´s a large commercial vessel like a passenger cruise ship or freigh ship as it can´t stop in an instance. In this situation media is talking about that the Viking Sigyn wasn´t allowed to pass because the bridge was too close (no passing at a bridge). So say the Viking Sigyn might have been to fast.

 

It´s a difficult situation and we have to wait what the authorities come up with.

 

steamboats

Larger vessels do not have the right of way!  The circumstances under which two vessels meet, cross or overtake may allow for some communication and agreement between them regarding each other’s intentions and who may make allowances (or not) on what they will do.  Although nothing, really, has come out on this specific incident (other than a very brief video clip) there has been no suggestion that anything special or unusual was agreed upon prior to the incident.  Just because the two ships were approaching the bridge at nearly the same time means little other than suggesting the Viking ship ought to have slowed down substantially to permit the sightseeing ship to make its transit safely.

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The basics is indeed right of way for the larger vessel, but as you have said, steamboats, this being at a bridge complicates matters. In an interesting article of Süddeutsche Zeitung a shipowner is interviewed, giving his view, the title is "nicht fahrlässig, aber stur". This indicates that the larger vessel has right of way but should not rely on it. He also says that risky manouevres have been experienced in Budapest by excursion boats. He also gathers from the footage that the Sigyn was fast.

 

I hope you can read it with translation software, it is an interesting read (adblocker was getting in my way a bit, hopefully you have more luck): https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/unglueck-donau-budapest-schiff-1.4469315

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

The basics is indeed right of way for the larger vessel, but as you have said, steamboats, this being at a bridge complicates matters. In an interesting article of Süddeutsche Zeitung a shipowner is interviewed, giving his view, the title is "nicht fahrlässig, aber stur". This indicates that the larger vessel has right of way but should not rely on it. He also says that risky manouevres have been experienced in Budapest by excursion boats. He also gathers from the footage that the Sigyn was fast.

 

I hope you can read it with translation software, it is an interesting read (adblocker was getting in my way a bit, hopefully you have more luck): https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/unglueck-donau-budapest-schiff-1.4469315

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

All very nice what a ship owner’s point of view may be but I’m thinking the authorities are more likely to consider Article 6 of the CEVNI European Code for Inland Waterways when it comes time to report on the contributing factors to the incident.

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Such a sad and tragic story.

Sank in a few seconds and so many dead or missing including a young child.

Budapest is a wonderful city and these night cruises are a highlight for many.

Hopefully something positive will change in terms of safety on the river.

 

 

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A new video popped up from upriver the bridge. It might confirm the theory the Austrian newspaper has. It looks like the Viking Sigyn has touched the excursion vessel which made it spin right in front of the bow of the Viking Sigyn.

 

steamboats

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In newspaper here today : ex staff are accusing Viking of not sticking to contractual and legal working conditions.  Crew incl officers and captain are expected to work a lot more in addition to their regular working shift : additionally an average of 5-6 hours up to 8 additional hours per day. 

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Another accident now in Venice.  MSC Opera (an ocean cruise ship) has crashed into a tourist boat at a dock.  5 injured.  Sorry,  can't post a link as on my tablet, but another overcrowded waterway.

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3 minutes ago, Daisi said:

Another accident now in Venice.  MSC Opera (an ocean cruise ship) has crashed into a tourist boat at a dock.  5 injured.  Sorry,  can't post a link as on my tablet, but another overcrowded waterway.

The other boat was the River Countess:

 

https://news.sky.com/story/cruise-ship-crashes-into-dock-and-tourist-boat-in-venice-11733440

 

Ocean ships now have upto 6000 passengers, river boots are restricted in size by the locks b ut their numbers have increased dramatically.

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51 minutes ago, G.M.T. said:

The other boat was the River Countess:

 

https://news.sky.com/story/cruise-ship-crashes-into-dock-and-tourist-boat-in-venice-11733440

 

Ocean ships now have upto 6000 passengers, river boots are restricted in size by the locks b ut their numbers have increased dramatically.

That video is terrifying and it seems amazing that 'only' a handful of people were injured.

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4 hours ago, odysee said:

In newspaper here today : ex staff are accusing Viking of not sticking to contractual and legal working conditions.  Crew incl officers and captain are expected to work a lot more in addition to their regular working shift : additionally an average of 5-6 hours up to 8 additional hours per day. 

This is very interesting. I would be interested in knowing how much experience the Capt had on the Danube especially doing the night tour. Also what was the speed of the Viking ship. I’m trying to comprehend because on our nighttime cruise with AMA, we traveled very slow. It was a photo op excursion. Something was not done to protocol for such a senseless tragedy to occur. 

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9 hours ago, steamboats said:

A new video popped up from upriver the bridge. It might confirm the theory the Austrian newspaper has. It looks like the Viking Sigyn has touched the excursion vessel which made it spin right in front of the bow of the Viking Sigyn.

 

steamboats

I don't see that.  The accident seems out of the range of the video.  Confused.  

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On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 9:27 PM, Moonlion said:

This is what is posted on the VRC website:

 

"The Viking river ship Sigyn was involved in a collision with another vessel – a Hungarian tourist ship – on the Danube River in Budapest yesterday evening (29th May). Sadly, there have been reports of fatalities and we offer our heartfelt condolences to those affected by this tragic accident. There were no injuries to Viking crew or Viking guests. The vessel has been cleared by the local authorities to sail on May 31 and the itinerary will finish as originally scheduled. We have been and continue to cooperate fully with the authorities while they undertake their investigations. There are no additional itinerary alterations anticipated at this time."

I can't find this on the VRC website.  Can you tell me where it is, or provide a link?

Many thanks..

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40 minutes ago, Andrew J. Cat said:

I can't find this on the VRC website.  Can you tell me where it is, or provide a link?

Many thanks..

 

Such notices are usually found under the MY TRIP tab/Updates on current sailings. These notices have a shelf-life but as of today, the notice of interest is still posted.

 

https://www.vikingrivercruises.com/my-trip/current-sailings/index.html

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2 hours ago, IWantToLiveOverTheSea said:

I don't see that.  The accident seems out of the range of the video.  Confused.  

 

It took me two times watching until I saw it. The excursion boat is pretty hard to make out.

 

steamboats

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7 hours ago, Daisi said:

Another accident now in Venice.  MSC Opera (an ocean cruise ship) has crashed into a tourist boat at a dock.  5 injured.  Sorry,  can't post a link as on my tablet, but another overcrowded waterway.

This one could have been way worse...Uniworld's guests were almost all off the boat since it was disembarkation day.

Here is another link and Uniworld posted a statement if you read on...…..it should have said 130 guests...(not 13).

https://www.cruisehive.com/cruise-ship-crashes-into-river-vessel-and-dock/32146

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Yes, that could have been a lot worse.  When I saw it last night, I didn't realise what type of boat was hit.  When you watch the video, and see people getting off the Uniworld ship, so glad there were only injuries (and hopefully ones that aren't serious) and nothing worse.  I hope those injured recover well.  I know everyone says you have to expect the unexpected when cruising on the rivers due to water levels etc, but the past two incidents really make you think again.  Hopefully they will be able to get something going for Uniworld for the upcoming cruises.

 

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This is unfortunate for Viking, which suffered the Viking Sky incident a few months ago. I read that the captain of the Sky was 'relieved,' and now the captain of the Viking Sigyn has been detained. I hope these are isolated incidents and not symptomatic of something more widespread that Viking needs to address.

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57 minutes ago, OceanPatter said:

This is unfortunate for Viking, which suffered the Viking Sky incident a few months ago. I read that the captain of the Sky was 'relieved,' and now the captain of the Viking Sigyn has been detained. I hope these are isolated incidents and not symptomatic of something more widespread that Viking needs to address.

 

And I have read elsewhere on these boards, that the captain of the Sky is on vacation and soon to return to duty. I would expect that he would have been 'relieved' so that he could give his full attention to the ensuing investigations but that does not mean that he has lost job as you have implied.

 

As for the captain of the Sigyn, he is one of the key figures in the incident. Detaining him sounds like standard operating procedure in the aftermath of an incident involving loss of life.

 

Please, can we stick to facts and not spreading rumors and idle speculation.

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10 minutes ago, Peregrina651 said:

 

And I have read elsewhere on these boards, that the captain of the Sky is on vacation and soon to return to duty. I would expect that he would have been 'relieved' so that he could give his full attention to the ensuing investigations but that does not mean that he has lost job as you have implied.

 

As for the captain of the Sigyn, he is one of the key figures in the incident. Detaining him sounds like standard operating procedure in the aftermath of an incident involving loss of life.

 

Please, can we stick to facts and not spreading rumors and idle speculation.

The “elsewhere” you referenced was a pax on the Sky stating what was told to those pax on the Sky during that very serious incident. Sort of like hearsay. Unless you can provide an official statement from Viking Corporate you are speculating as much as anyone. 

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32 minutes ago, Got2Cruise said:

The “elsewhere” you referenced was a pax on the Sky stating what was told to those pax on the Sky during that very serious incident. Sort of like hearsay. Unless you can provide an official statement from Viking Corporate you are speculating as much as anyone. 

 

I'll stand by what I said. The pax in question is currently on the Sky and that is when the conversation with the staff member took place, in other words, days ago, not months ago. The passenger is reporting a conversation of which he was a participant.  I can't imagine that if a staff member commented at all that he was telling lies or making things up.

 

 

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On 5/30/2019 at 2:07 PM, capriccio said:

My brother and sister-in-law (plus her mom, two brothers and their spouses) boarded a Uniworld ship (SS. Beatrice) yesterday afternoon for a cruise leaving today to Bucharest.  After seeing this thread I sent them a note this morning and my sister-in-law responded with

 

"We knew there were people in the water.  We saw lots and lots of emergency boats and vehicles on the shore.  For our evening cruise (to see the lights of the city - she didn't say if that started before or after the accident), we had to go real slowly.  We didn't realize what really happened until this morning.  What a tragedy!  Not much going on here today, so we assume most of the search is down stream.  The water is high and strong.  We are heading that way now (this was sent around 6 pm Budapest time).  Croatia tomorrow."

 

My sister-in-law sent me an update this morning:

 

"Our captain told us that the Viking captain had alcohol in his system and has been arrested.  Also that many smaller tour boats in the area took off rather than stay to help those in the water, probably because they were drinking too.  I trust Uniworld (they are on their 5th cruise with them) but its scary to think there are drunk boaters out here with us!"

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2 hours ago, capriccio said:

 

My sister-in-law sent me an update this morning:

 

"Our captain told us that the Viking captain had alcohol in his system and has been arrested.  Also that many smaller tour boats in the area took off rather than stay to help those in the water, probably because they were drinking too.  I trust Uniworld (they are on their 5th cruise with them) but its scary to think there are drunk boaters out here with us!"

 

Hmm, strong statements to be treated with caution at this point. Testing for blood alcohol is standard practice. "Alcohol in blood" is a wide range (apart from the fact that minute amounts of alcohol are produced by humans themselves - I do not mean the medical condition, just natural production). We should not assume the rivers of Europe are "lawless" places where captains get away with being "drunk" or other irregularities... Random checks by the authorities are carried out, to what extend I do not know.

 

A bit more info on the arrest is given by Deutsche Welle: https://www.dw.com/en/hungary-orders-arrest-of-danube-cruise-captain-after-crash/a-49001959

A German news report suggests that authorities thought the captain had much knowledge of the area and there was the idea of him potentially trying to leave the country - i.e. preventing him to be able to do so, not suggesting he would, they just did not want to take chances.

 

As regards the river being busy in Budapest, travelweekly has this to say, with interesting statistics by CCNR (explained in article): https://www.travelweekly.com/River-Cruising/Salvage-efforts-resume-in-Budapest-at-site-of-sunken-tour-boat

 

You might have read the news by now that several bodies have been discovered between 30 and 100km downstream from Budapest. Their identities have not been confirmed (6pm European time).

 

 

Sorry to mix the topics, but the connection is in "random checks" that I mentioned above:

On 6/2/2019 at 9:44 AM, odysee said:

In newspaper here today : ex staff are accusing Viking of not sticking to contractual and legal working conditions.  Crew incl officers and captain are expected to work a lot more in addition to their regular working shift : additionally an average of 5-6 hours up to 8 additional hours per day. 

 

Police, those that patrol the rivers, carry out random checks, also on river cruises. It involves checking the digitally recorded hours at the wheel (just like with lorry drivers), work permits, etc. Such a check was reported on by BR24 (in German) last year (video still available perhaps online). On that particular ship they found minor irregularities. Yes, the policeman was standing in front of a Viking ship, but I did not see which one.

 

For what it's worth, speaking of former crew members. A Viking captain complained about payment arrangements, something to do with euros and Swiss francs, lost his job and then went public, it had turned into a court case in the meantime. If memory serves me right, this was about four years ago.

 

Still, these are all one-off's unless we hear of more cases. Ship accidents happen with other companies. Exploitation of workforce or irregularities with work permits have been reported (without giving names) from ocean cruise ships as well. The German press has addressed the subject a bit more since more and more Asians have been recruited on ships in the last few years due to shortage of European staff.

 

notamermaid

 

 

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4 hours ago, capriccio said:

 

My sister-in-law sent me an update this morning:

 

"Our captain told us that the Viking captain had alcohol in his system and has been arrested.  Also that many smaller tour boats in the area took off rather than stay to help those in the water, probably because they were drinking too.  I trust Uniworld (they are on their 5th cruise with them) but its scary to think there are drunk boaters out here with us!"

I’m more concerned about the small boats taking off than the possible drinking. Maybe they could have saved someone. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Got2Cruise said:

I’m more concerned about the small boats taking off than the possible drinking. Maybe they could have saved someone. 

 

I gather that was his concern too.  Some were too afraid of possible consequences to themselves and didn't help those in distress.

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