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Zuiderdam prevented from leaving port by protesters

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I think it's kinda odd that some think it's okay to hang from the lines of the ship.  Truly, these guys may have been "nonviolent," but somebody else may not be.  What happened to just picketing with signs? 🤔 

 

I'm very uncomfortable that these people were allowed to get that close to the ship.  Maybe they could climb the lines and throw something ugly onboard?  I don't know, and, frankly, I don't think I should have to think about it.  Security isn't my responsibility as a cruise passenger.

 

Anyhow, Note to Self about cruise ports in Germany.  They don't want us there?  Well, okay....

 

 

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37 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

Anyhow, Note to Self about cruise ports in Germany.  They don't want us there?  Well, okay....

 

Germany was under consideration for an upcoming trip to Europe in the Fall.  This thread was helpful in eliminating it from the list for so many reasons.   Just like the protestors... it’s nothing personal.

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3 minutes ago, *Miss G* said:

 

Germany was under consideration for an upcoming trip to Europe in the Fall.  This thread was helpful in eliminating it from the list for so many reasons.   Just like the protestors... it’s nothing personal.

I wouldn't dismiss an entire country because of a few protesters.  I did a wonderful cruise down the Rhine last year without incident. 

 

Roz 

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18 minutes ago, Roz said:

I wouldn't dismiss an entire country because of a few protesters.  I did a wonderful cruise down the Rhine last year without incident. 

 

Roz 

 

Thank you Roz.  It will always be a consideration for the future.  Just not the immediate future.  There are so many places to go in Europe.  When you start with all things being equal, this thread was helpful in narrowing down the list.  That is all.

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I do not agree with everyting the Green party want´s - say´s or is doing- but calling  them ill- or whatever is a bit to much! I am glad they are around since more than 30 years-   they acted as eye opener for many people-  and not just Germans.

Our current goverment is on it´s last legs- with the election not too far away.

I would really like to see the Green party with a bit influence- even in colation to built a new goverment!

A litte bit of a " Green" influcene would be beneficial for many a state I could name..!

That flag with the scull to eliminate cruising alltogether they used in sundays protests  is nonsense- they should have done their homework a bit better- there are options for cruise lines to minimize the dirt they blow out into the sky´s ! They should just use them.

If those activists will help to push the cruise lines out of their confort zone and force them to act - all the better!

For those who mentioned they should have  stopped a German ship- well for that matter- i guess the Zuiderdam was just in the wrong place at the wrong time! Either ship would have served their purpose!

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Posted (edited)

Yesterday we returned home from a 24-day cruise on the Zuiderdam and we were onboard in Kiel when this protest happened.

 

 I thought the Captain and staff did a great job in handling the whole incident. While the protest was going on the Captain made several announcements keeping everyone informed as to what was happening, plus emphasising it was a peaceful protest and that the local authorities were the ones handling the problem.

 

They even opened the bow deck up so that passengers could observe what was going on.

 

Several people I talked with found it to be annoying, but at the same time entertaining - with one person noting the protesters antics were more entertaining then some of the ship’s Mainstage shows!

 

I think most people who were disembarking in Copenhagen the following morning likely became more concerned about the situation when the Captain announced at about 9pm that we would have had to have departed Kiel by 8:30pm in order to in Copenhagen for the scheduled 7am arrival time.

 

Shortly after we departed Kiel at 10pm the Captain made a more detailed announcement (followed by a printed copy delivered to each cabin). In it he noted our arrival time in Copenhagen was expected to be around 9am and, as such, it was unlikely anyone would be able to make international flights departing Copenhagen before 1pm. They also suggested if a person’s flight was departing close to 1pm that it was recommended they keep their luggage and proceed with an expedited debark in the morning.

 

Complimentary phone access and Wi-Fi access in the Atrium was provided to assist people in contacting family and/or revising travel plans.

 

Our cabin was overlooking the terminal and we noticed a steady stream of people getting off with their luggage as soon as the gangway was installed – even before the announcement the gangway was open. They also had a second gangway opened fairly quickly.

 

I felt the ship was very efficient in getting people off the ship quickly, with lots of staff available both on the ship and in the terminal to assist people. We had a 2:30pm flight and had booked an airport transfer with the ship. Before everything got changed because to the late arrival, our original debark time was to be in the 9:30–10:00am time period. Our actual debark time was 10:30, so not all that bad considering everything!

 

Even the staff at the airport were helping passengers. With it being the end of a holiday long weekend, the airport was extremely busy. While using one the self check-in kiosks, I was approached by a staff member inquiring if I was from the Holland America ship and if I was in need of any assistance in making my flight. Definitely service above what is normally expected.

 

Overall, we did not find what happened (and the response by HAL) to be all that much different from our cruise on the Zuiderdam last fall. On that cruise we missed one port (which upset a lot of people) because the ship had been directed to assist in the search of a person who had gone overboard from another ship. In addition, because a cruise ship had damaged the berth where the Zuiderdam was schedule to dock in New York, the ship ended up having to go to a different terminal – which caused headaches for people debarking.

 

Any seasoned traveller will recognize they have to have some time flexibility built-in to their travel plans. You run the same risks booking a flight within 6 hours after a scheduled debark time, as you do in planning on flying in on departure day.

 

While at breakfast I heard one person mention they were now booked on a flight which was departing 5 hours later then their original flight. He acknowledged he should have known having a flight just 3 hours after the scheduled debark time was risky! 

 

I expect most people will now be going on with their life and this incident will be quickly forgotten.

Edited by GeorgeCharlie

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Thank you for your " first hand report"! Great know that those schenanigans did not intrude to much on everyones cruise experience! There is a lot of discusion going on, both here at cruise critic and ther German cruise page!

Some heated statements beeing made, some harsh, some even rude!

Anyhow- in the German papers the incident is all but forgotten already- as usual with such happenings! I do hope if those so called activists plan on trying again to keep a ship from departing they choose a German ship! We have enough of those! LOL!

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4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

There are not really any "innovative" propulsion systems, but ships are being built to utilize cleaner fuels.  

Viking is reported to be working on a hydrogen powered ship?    Could an existing ship be retrofitted for hydrogen power?  

 

I remember hydrogen was all the rage for cars in concept some years back but there was no filling station network.  

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

It's legal in Germany to block a ship from getting underway, hang from its mooring lines and stand on its bulbous bow while in port?  Wow, your laws are pretty lax out there.   

Some laws are lax but our gun laws are very tight, how about yours?

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6 hours ago, ew101 said:

Viking is reported to be working on a hydrogen powered ship?    Could an existing ship be retrofitted for hydrogen power?  

 

I remember hydrogen was all the rage for cars in concept some years back but there was no filling station network.  

 

 

 

 

I think you are referring to "fuel cells" that use liquid hydrogen and air to create electricity.  To the best of my knowledge, the Viking plan is to only provide hotel load via hydrogen fuel cells, and the remaining power to be petroleum fueled.  RCI, as I've said, is supposed to be running small scale fuel cell tests, but using LNG as the fuel, not hydrogen.  There is no way that an existing ship could be retrofitted for fuel cells to provide all the power needed in a cruise ship.

 

Whether hydrogen or LNG fueled fuel cells, both fuels require cryogenic storage (-260*F for LNG, -423*F for hydrogen), so tankage is completely different from conventional liquid fuels.  Conventional fuel tanks are merely parts of the hull, while the LNG and hydrogen tanks will need to be insulated, with void space around the tank to allow for leak detection, and these fuels have a lower specific heat than conventional fuels (less energy per ton or cubic meter), so lots more space will be needed just for fuel storage (and the tanks cannot be along the side of the ship, where conventional fuel tanks are, for safety reasons, or the infrastructure to refuel the ships more frequently, in more ports would need to be implemented.  Then there is the equipment needed to "inert" the fuel tanks (replacing the atmosphere above the liquid with a non-combustible atmosphere, typically nitrogen or carbon dioxide), and the reliquifaction equipment needed to deal with the inevitable "boil off" of the liquid fuel (remember the vapor streaming down the side of the NASA rockets?), and you've got a whole lot of space taken up, before you get to anything that generates power from this fuel.  Hydrogen is far more expensive than LNG as well.  I would say that fuel cells capable of powering the hotel load of a cruise ship may be 4-5 years away (again the infrastructure problem hasn't been solved), and a totally fuel cell powered ship is likely a couple of decades away.

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6 hours ago, GeorgeCharlie said:

Yesterday we returned home from a 24-day cruise on the Zuiderdam and we were onboard in Kiel when this protest happened.

 

 I thought the Captain and staff did a great job in handling the whole incident. While the protest was going on the Captain made several announcements keeping everyone informed as to what was happening, plus emphasising it was a peaceful protest and that the local authorities were the ones handling the problem.

 

They even opened the bow deck up so that passengers could observe what was going on.

 

Several people I talked with found it to be annoying, but at the same time entertaining - with one person noting the protesters antics were more entertaining then some of the ship’s Mainstage shows!

 

I think most people who were disembarking in Copenhagen the following morning likely became more concerned about the situation when the Captain announced at about 9pm that we would have had to have departed Kiel by 8:30pm in order to in Copenhagen for the scheduled 7am arrival time.

 

Shortly after we departed Kiel at 10pm the Captain made a more detailed announcement (followed by a printed copy delivered to each cabin). In it he noted our arrival time in Copenhagen was expected to be around 9am and, as such, it was unlikely anyone would be able to make international flights departing Copenhagen before 1pm. They also suggested if a person’s flight was departing close to 1pm that it was recommended they keep their luggage and proceed with an expedited debark in the morning.

 

Complimentary phone access and Wi-Fi access in the Atrium was provided to assist people in contacting family and/or revising travel plans.

 

Our cabin was overlooking the terminal and we noticed a steady stream of people getting off with their luggage as soon as the gangway was installed – even before the announcement the gangway was open. They also had a second gangway opened fairly quickly.

 

I felt the ship was very efficient in getting people off the ship quickly, with lots of staff available both on the ship and in the terminal to assist people. We had a 2:30pm flight and had booked an airport transfer with the ship. Before everything got changed because to the late arrival, our original debark time was to be in the 9:30–10:00am time period. Our actual debark time was 10:30, so not all that bad considering everything!

 

Even the staff at the airport were helping passengers. With it being the end of a holiday long weekend, the airport was extremely busy. While using one the self check-in kiosks, I was approached by a staff member inquiring if I was from the Holland America ship and if I was in need of any assistance in making my flight. Definitely service above what is normally expected.

 

Overall, we did not find what happened (and the response by HAL) to be all that much different from our cruise on the Zuiderdam last fall. On that cruise we missed one port (which upset a lot of people) because the ship had been directed to assist in the search of a person who had gone overboard from another ship. In addition, because a cruise ship had damaged the berth where the Zuiderdam was schedule to dock in New York, the ship ended up having to go to a different terminal – which caused headaches for people debarking.

 

Any seasoned traveller will recognize they have to have some time flexibility built-in to their travel plans. You run the same risks booking a flight within 6 hours after a scheduled debark time, as you do in planning on flying in on departure day.

 

While at breakfast I heard one person mention they were now booked on a flight which was departing 5 hours later then their original flight. He acknowledged he should have known having a flight just 3 hours after the scheduled debark time was risky! 

 

I expect most people will now be going on with their life and this incident will be quickly forgotten.

Thank you for your up date, it sounds like a lot of people made a mountain out of a mole hill. I think it would make a very interesting post cruise memories over drinks.  

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39 minutes ago, puppycanducruise said:

Thank you for the first hand report GeorgeCharlie.

You certainly had an interesting cruise.

Yes it was an interesting cruise, but not at the same "interesting" level as our Zuiderdam cruise last fall.🙂

 

Hopefully, I can start a post-cruise photo review of the cruise on this site fairly soon.

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Some people asked why it happened to HAL and no german ship. Sunday was pentecost and the activists took advantage of that because they knew that there are not much policemen working on that day. I am sure it would hit every other ship on Sunday.

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4 hours ago, G.M.T. said:

Some laws are lax but our gun laws are very tight, how about yours?

 

Oh, I see.  You can't admit you were wrong so you change the subject.  Typical. :classic_rolleyes:

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Oh, I see.  You can't admit you were wrong so you change the subject.  Typical. :classic_rolleyes:

Why are you being so evasive. Just answer the question.

 

So how can I be wrong, I made a statement and asked for comparison which was not forth coming. SO just answer the question.

Edited by G.M.T.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, G.M.T. said:

Why are you being so evasive. Just answer the question.

 

So how can I be wrong, I made a statement and asked for comparison which was not forth coming. SO just answer the question.

 

Because it has ZERO to do with the subject of this thread.  It's like me asking you how 1945 went for you.  It has nothing to do with this protest.  C'mon.  Try to stay on subject here. 

 

PS...I see you still aren't admitting you were wrong by saying they did nothing illegal.  Oh well. 

Edited by Aquahound

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1 hour ago, Aquahound said:

 

Because it has ZERO to do with the subject of this thread.  It's like me asking you how 1945 went for you.  It has nothing to do with this protest.  C'mon.  Try to stay on subject here. 

 

PS...I see you still aren't admitting you were wrong by saying they did nothing illegal.  Oh well. 

Yeah, Paul.  While their right to protest isn't under debate, as far as I'm concerned, I believe they were in the port area illegally, from an ISPS standpoint.  In that context, yes, it is a little different than blocking a street where they have every right to be.  But, again, it is the German authorities who dropped the ball, but I understand about the national holiday slowing response time.

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I've lived in Northern Europe off and on. There really is a different culture of political activism in places like Denmark and Germany. It's not right or wrong, its just different. I thank GeorgeCharlie for his first hand perspective.

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5 hours ago, G.M.T. said:

Some laws are lax but our gun laws are very tight, how about yours?

The red herring are in season..

 

"Criminal charges filed include causing duress, obstruction and unlawful entry. Various campaigners were masked, in violation of German law.

The incident sparked widespread media coverage in northern Germany. There appeared to be little public support for the campaigners' action. Most users posting comments on the local NDR website were critical, some calling the protesters 'criminals' and comparing their action to piracy. "

http://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/news-headlines/police-break-environmental-campaigners-blockade-of-hal-ship-in-kiel.html

 

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1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Yeah, Paul.  While their right to protest isn't under debate, as far as I'm concerned, I believe they were in the port area illegally, from an ISPS standpoint.  In that context, yes, it is a little different than blocking a street where they have every right to be.  But, again, it is the German authorities who dropped the ball, but I understand about the national holiday slowing response time.

We  are not sure when the protesters arrived, but we first noticed them about 2:30pm on the starboard side. There were several police boats there . More police boats arrived  and S&R boats with water canons. S&R boats are not allowed to use their water canons and the police do not have any, per police officer on a zodiac boat talking with passengers below us.

Numerous times the police spoke with the protesters.  About 9:30pm the police surrounded the boat attached to the Zuiderdam. They moved the boat away from the ship. and one of the women plopped into the water and refused help getting into the boat. She looked pretty prepared with wetsuit, PFD and short fins. She was later plucked out of the water and in custody. 

3 more protesters swam past the ship and disappeared under the pier behind the Zuiderdam.

Police stayed on scene and some  escorted the Zuiderdam to safe and open water. This what happened on our side of the ship. 

 

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On a different note , we had a great day in Bergen . However , we are not allowed to leave Bergen without a Pilot boat and the pilot became sick and was admitted to the ship's infirmary . He was taken by an ambulance and a replacement pilot is suppose to have us leaving about an hour late at 1900 .

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16 minutes ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

On a different note , we had a great day in Bergen . However , we are not allowed to leave Bergen without a Pilot boat and the pilot became sick and was admitted to the ship's infirmary . He was taken by an ambulance and a replacement pilot is suppose to have us leaving about an hour late at 1900 .

 

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to the Bergen pilot

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30 minutes ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

We  are not sure when the protesters arrived, but we first noticed them about 2:30pm on the starboard side. There were several police boats there . More police boats arrived  and S&R boats with water canons. S&R boats are not allowed to use their water canons and the police do not have any, per police officer on a zodiac boat talking with passengers below us.

Numerous times the police spoke with the protesters.  About 9:30pm the police surrounded the boat attached to the Zuiderdam. They moved the boat away from the ship. and one of the women plopped into the water and refused help getting into the boat. She looked pretty prepared with wetsuit, PFD and short fins. She was later plucked out of the water and in custody. 

3 more protesters swam past the ship and disappeared under the pier behind the Zuiderdam.

Police stayed on scene and some  escorted the Zuiderdam to safe and open water. This what happened on our side of the ship. 

 

 

 

Wow!  Am glad tat you were able to get out of there.

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19 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to the Bergen pilot

 

Yes ! We have cast off lines and are under way .

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