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dcruiser50

Class cruising has returned

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20 minutes ago, Quencups said:

Just curious.....and we sail all types of cabins.....when did it become a crime to work hard all year and splurge to be pampered on your vacation in the Haven?....The idea that everyone in the Haven is a pompous snob is just unfair....I have seen a lot of pompous snobs on cruises and they were not in the Haven.....LOL....some were tho…. 😉

 

I think there is a strict distinction between splurging and being rewarded vs. having stuff taken away from you.

 

We choose to cruise 2 times a year vs 1 cruise in Haven.  I do not begrudge the people who do cruise in Haven.  And for the prices they are paying, they do deserve more, I get it.  My problem is why does giving the Haven more mean taking away more from the non-Haven people?  They are not connected.

 

You want to give the Haven more open space, do it.

 

You want to increase the Vibe area so you can sell more tickets and make more money, do it.

 

But why do those have to come at the cost of taking from the people who don't fall into either of those categories?  Why do you take the open pool deck and divide it by 3 when there are way more people who are Not Haven or Not Vibe?  Why do all 3 classes get equal real estate?  

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3 minutes ago, MrMike45 said:

 

Hey thanks for the sage, insightful, and utterly stupid response.  We have 17 NCL cruises under our belt.  We are platinum plus.  This is a forum to discuss cruises.  

 

Once again, it's pretty simple, if you have nothing useful to say...STFU  

Your the one crying Mikey about the changes. And it is that simple. Their are plenty of other cruise line you can do business with. 

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3 minutes ago, MrMike45 said:

You want to increase the Vibe area so you can sell more tickets and make more money, do it.

 

But why do those have to come at the cost of taking from the people who don't fall into either of those categories? 

 

In the case of the Getaway (which I don't agree with) increasing the size of VIBE had to come at the expense of "open to all" deck space. The Haven sundeck on Getaway is already small so VIBE couldn't/wouldn't be expanded in that direction. 

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5 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

In the case of the Getaway (which I don't agree with) increasing the size of VIBE had to come at the expense of "open to all" deck space. The Haven sundeck on Getaway is already small so VIBE couldn't/wouldn't be expanded in that direction. 

There is only one solution:

Image result for aircraft carrier covered in beach chairs

Think of how many deck chairs could you get on that thing!

And you could use Officers Country as the Haven.

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18 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

Your the one crying Mikey about the changes. And it is that simple. Their are plenty of other cruise line you can do business with. 

 

I don't remember shedding a single tear.  I am agreeing with the OP about the class system being more and more prevalent with NCL and their changes/new ships.  And I don't know how that is even an arguable point anymore.

 

Escape is going into dry dock and will be under going the same changes of the Getaway.

 

Escape holds 4500 passengers.

 

The pool deck is being divided into 3 sections, Haven/Vibe/Regular folks

 

There are not 1500 Haven/1500 Vibe/1500 Regular folks.

 

The Haven you have to spend more granted.  Vibe, you have to spend more AND get to the pier extra early AND win a rat race to secure tickets.  So now, not only segregating based on how much you spend on the cruise, doing so based on how early you board and how fast you can run.  It's stupid, sorry.  

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I don’t think NCL (or really any of the other big lines) are returning to “class” cruising.  Sure you get more perks when you spend more money, but that’s how things work everywhere else in life too.

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9 minutes ago, MrMike45 said:

Escape is going into dry dock and will be under going the same changes of the Getaway.

 

Have the changes been officially announced?

 

I ask because the hot-tub locations on Escape would give VIBE 3 hot-tubs if VIBE is expanded to the port side and forward. I guess that they could wall off the further aft port hot-tub to leave that for the general public. If the Haven is given the entire forward-facing sundeck, that would give the Haven 4 hot-tubs. 

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What is this nonsense. 

I always book Inside Sailaway and upgrade to Balcony.

I don't care about the location of the ship. I don't drink or gamble. I don't care about WiFi, Excursion discount, Airfare discount.

The only thing I would buy separately is the specialty dining.

 

So you call it steerage, I call it feature pricing. I am okay with base model.

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5 hours ago, Lupush said:

Class cruising never left in my opinion.  It's always been there, just more cleverly marketed.

I disagree.

 

I have been cruising since 1981 (first cruise was NCL's Sunward II), then cruises in the 80's were on Carnival (who in my opinion introduced the the modern version of the cruise industry).  Through the 80's, 90's and into the 2000's, except for Cunard there wasn't a class based system, where certain areas were off limits.  High end cabins might get a few perks, but nothing big.

 

In recent years, that has changed. However I don't begrudge the cruise lines offering Haven type places.  I look at the people that book cabins that allow them to partake of these features are subsidizing my cruise price.

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On the deck plans for the Escape on NCL's website, you can see plans for before October 11, 2020 and afterwards. Is that when the drydock work is scheduled? 

 

Currently the post 10/11/20 plans show same Vibe/Haven/Public layout as now, and of course we all know it's NOT at all like NCL to make unannounced changes at the last minute. 

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1 hour ago, thetaro said:

What is this nonsense. 

I always book Inside Sailaway and upgrade to Balcony.

I don't care about the location of the ship. I don't drink or gamble. I don't care about WiFi, Excursion discount, Airfare discount.

The only thing I would buy separately is the specialty dining.

 

So you call it steerage, I call it feature pricing. I am okay with base model.

100% agree.  This is a ridiculous post in my opinion.  The level of nonsense was proven by the original post itself, why are balconies 2nd class? Literally the only difference is the balcony itself.  Also you could have an inside passenger who saves on the room but spends extra money on vibe, the spa, LE bistro and Cagneys every night and a mini suite passenger who eats in the buffet or MDR for every meal.  

    Personally we like the suites because we have a child and like a big room but because of said child we eat in the Buffet and don’t spend tons on extras. It’s a little strange to arbitrarily decide there are now 3 classes and make that declaration as the original post did. 

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My DH and I have been joking for years that we are steerage class, but honestly it never bothered me. 

 

We did get Vibe passes to have some quiet deck space and a hot tub. I hate the idea that they are taking away deck space for the Vibe. They could just up the number of passes they sell to the Vibe instead of taking space away from the rest of the ship. That place was a ghost town the few times I used it. 

 

Also the hours were limited for the Vibe as it didn’t open until 9 AM and then closed at 9 PM. That’s a lot of wasted time and space.

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7 hours ago, dcruiser50 said:

As I predicted awhile back class cruising has returned, 

Heaven = first class

Balcony or above = 2nd class

Lower than balcony and GTY. Sail away, = steerage 

It will not be long before areas of the ships block off areas for each, 

I am not complaining you get what you pay for just my observation 

 

IMO not that bad so far.

There are two classes on select NCL ships: Haven and non-Haven.

A mummy of the class system returned in 2008 (MSC Fantasia - "Yacht Club").

Only three cruise lines has adopted class division since then: NCL , Dream Cruises, and Celebrity (Celebrity Edge).

 

Expanding suite guest perks and charging for amenities that are supposed to be included is more and more visible industry-wide.

Is it a trend? 

No.

It's only a tip of the iceberg.

Gradual deterioration of product quality - that is the trend.

 

Happy cruising!

 

Edited by ronbe65

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3 hours ago, MrMike45 said:

 

I think there is a strict distinction between splurging and being rewarded vs. having stuff taken away from you.

 

We choose to cruise 2 times a year vs 1 cruise in Haven.  I do not begrudge the people who do cruise in Haven.  And for the prices they are paying, they do deserve more, I get it.  My problem is why does giving the Haven more mean taking away more from the non-Haven people?  They are not connected.

 

You want to give the Haven more open space, do it.

 

You want to increase the Vibe area so you can sell more tickets and make more money, do it.

 

But why do those have to come at the cost of taking from the people who don't fall into either of those categories?  Why do you take the open pool deck and divide it by 3 when there are way more people who are Not Haven or Not Vibe?  Why do all 3 classes get equal real estate?  

I agree with what you are saying. I just think the Haven is more lucrative than they even imagined. Therefore they want to make it bigger and bigger at the expense of others 😕

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I have been reading and reading and reading all these posts about class distinction and steerage ( thank you for posting the Wikipedia definition). And quite frankly it makes me sad that anyone feels like class separation exists amongst cruise ship passengers. Aren’t we all excited to be cruising? Don’t we look forward to meeting new people and sharing our experiences? 

I feel awkward because after 30 cruises we are finally splurging on a Haven cabin. 

I’ll share with you why. Last year we did a TA (balcony). My husband and I were on the Epic Sun Deck and met a lady that was sailing in a OS in the Haven. She said they chose that room because her husband was dying and she wanted his last cruise to be the best they could have. She took us to her cabin and we met her husband. I was glad to spend some time sharing our day and lives with them.

When we left my husband said “I’ll be 75 next year do you think we can do a Haven someday before it’s too late for us to enjoy it”  One year later and 3 heart operations, 2 knee replacements, and numerous health issues we are booked on a 19 day TA in the Haven in Oct 2019.

I certainly don’t feel privileged because we can do this, I feel blessed because my husband gets to experience a Haven cabin before he can no longer enjoy it.

Enjoy the journey and treasure every cruising day you have, it’s a privilege many never get to have.

I hope to meet many more fellow cruisers and would love to listen.

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1 hour ago, realtorgranny said:

I have been reading and reading and reading all these posts about class distinction and steerage ( thank you for posting the Wikipedia definition). And quite frankly it makes me sad that anyone feels like class separation exists amongst cruise ship passengers. Aren’t we all excited to be cruising? Don’t we look forward to meeting new people and sharing our experiences? 

I feel awkward because after 30 cruises we are finally splurging on a Haven cabin. 

 

Let me say... here on the boards, there is a HUGE misunderstanding related to the problem of class separation on cruise ships.

"Class" - it's not about people, not about cruisers. 

It's all about the product quality. Entirely. Absolutely.

Everyone is entitled to enjoy whatever he/she wants: any class, any cabin, any cruise, and no one should feel guilty, or look for an excuse.

Any personalization of the problem makes no sense and is totally out of scope.

Cruising passengers (you and me) are just payload in this case. We don't create the product. We only consume it.

The real issue is: a cruise line is reducing product quality (affecting 95% of the ship's capacity), without appropriate price adjustment, in order to "save" a part of available resources (space, personnel, supply) and sell it for a much higher price.

A standard product becomes substandard.

The matter of discussion is cruise line product. Not clients.

This is marketing.

Is it possible to create a separate "privileged" zone on a ship, and maintain standards for "the rest of the ship"?

Absolutely. But it depends on the cruise line.

Please take a look at this post where I tried to illustrate different "ways to havens".

Please note that NCL Getaway was used as a perfect example of a civilized approach to class division on a modern cruise ship.

Shall we feel proud of ourselves?

No. It's not you or me who did that. It's the cruise line.

Unfortunately the Getaway is not a perfect example any more.

As you might know,  things have changed: there is no public access to the forward sun deck after recent "upgrade".

Shall we blame ourselves for that?

Shall we blame the cruise line?

Well, the ship belongs to the cruise line. They can do what they want to do.

And what about us?

We only can take notes, make our own decisions, ... and never confuse human society matters with cruise lines marketing.

The product (Getaway) has lost a part of it's quality and value (lost a part of it's class if you wish). Future cruisers should take this into consideration.

Realtorgranny, enjoy every moment of your cruise. You don't have to feel awkward.

 

Happy cruising!

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, rgd1213 said:

I tend to agree with the OP....and I don't think he was calling anyone 'steerage' but just stressing a point.  My wife and I play a little game when cruising NCL...how long will it take for a person we meet to say "we are in the Haven".  Usually does not take too long (it's been as short as an elevator ride!), and my wife and I just look at each other, then our watches, and smile. :classic_biggrin:

 

 

 

 

And my family sails in the Haven. We play a little game where we see how long it takes people to notice the Haven room card around our neck or notice when we push the Haven floor in the elevator and make a rude and snarky comment. Usually doesn’t take too long. 🙄

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All of this because of an expanded Vibe?  There is no class system but there is a giant fee system.  People all over the ship including inside cabins routinely shell out money for eating, some entertainment, spa, and other excursions.  The irony is even if you book a Deluxe Owners Suite (notice wheels I used the word deluxe) at $20,000 you still must pay for the same upcharges including the spa.  For $20,000 you should be able to dine and shower with the captain IMHO.  All cruise lines are doing this but NCL really has taken it to a new level.  Many things are not even worth the upcharge.  Last time on Getaway the magic show was basic and would be included in the cheapest cruise line entertainment.  The mind readers are cool but have existed on cheap cruise lines since the 1970s.  NCL charged for admission to the show and gave a very MDR meal that actually made MDR meals look and taste like specialty dining.  10 years ago if you booked a specialty dining restaurant on NCL the cost was low because you got credit for your daily meals.  Yes now they have go carts, galaxy pavilion, and an adults only sundeck which all require fees.

No class system since people from all category of cabins book these things.  I hate it too but its not a class system.  When FDR took over he stated he wanted to get another $50 from each passenger but it appears he has set his eyes on $500.

Edited by david_sobe

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13 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

All of this because of an expanded Vibe?  There is no class system but there is a giant fee system.  People all over the ship including inside cabins routinely shell out money for eating, some entertainment, spa, and other excursions.  The irony is even if you book a Deluxe Owners Suite (notice wheels I used the word deluxe) at 20,000 you still must pay for the same upcharges including the spa.  For $20,000 you should be able to dine and shower with the captain IMHO.  The most inexpensive suite however gives you access to the spa.  All cruise lines are doing this but NCL really has taken it to a new level.  Many things are not even worth the upcharge.  Last time on Getaway the magic show was basic and would be included in the cheapest cruise line entertainment.  The mind readers are cool but have existed on cheap cruise lines since the 1970s.  NCL charged for admission to the show and gave a very MDR meal that actually made MDR meals look and taste like specialty dining.  10 years ago if you booked a specialty dining restaurant on NCL the cost was low because you got credit for your daily meals.  Yes now they have go carts, galaxy pavilion, and an adults only sundeck which all require fees.

No class system since people from all category of cabins book these things.

You're right on David!!!

Edited by Laszlo

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31 minutes ago, FLcruisergrl said:

And my family sails in the Haven. We play a little game where we see how long it takes people to notice the Haven room card around our neck or notice when we push the Haven floor in the elevator and make a rude and snarky comment. Usually doesn’t take too long. 🙄

Same with us....and on the ships when u have to put your keycard in the elevator to reach that floor, forget it. Lol. 

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Hi

 

If someone wants to call it class cruising, they can, who cares. It just doesn't matter.

 

If I am satisfied with basic accommodations and don't want to pay for any extras, I can go on a very inexpensive trip. If someone wants more, they will have to pay more. Why should it bother me. People are willing to pay extra for anything and everything. Whether it is for an upgrade cabin, as well as  alcohol, gambling, photos, premium dining, whatever else any cruise line charges for. The reality is that they are subsidizing those that aren't willing/don't need to spend anything extra.

 

The cruise line wouldn't be making a profit if everyone on the ship were paying less than $500 for a week of cruising and wasn't spending extra. We all spend what we choose every day of our lives. If you want to spend $10000 for a car while someone else wants to spend $100000 for a different car, who cares. It's still going to get you to the same place. Just like the ship.

 

If someone wants to spend $5000 for their cruise and I choose to spend $500, again who cares. I can go on ten cruises for the same amount. Almost one a month... sounds pretty good to me. That's one of the great thing about having choices, and about the cruising industry. There is something for every budget. 

 

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21 hours ago, dcruiser50 said:

As I predicted awhile back class cruising has returned, 

Heaven = first class

Balcony or above = 2nd class

Lower than balcony and GTY. Sail away, = steerage 

It will not be long before areas of the ships block off areas for each, 

I am not complaining you get what you pay for just my observation 

 

 

Sounds like complaining to me...  No one I know has ever experienced anything close to what you describe.

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19 hours ago, Laszlo said:

Your the one crying Mikey about the changes. And it is that simple. Their are plenty of other cruise line you can do business with. 

You've an awful lot of posts to your name and a lot appear to be poking  the bear. I get the impression you like to see the bear react. I think you need to get outside more.

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Announcing the new NCL Steerage cabin class!  All the amenities in a single cabin!!  🤣

 

jail-cell.jpg

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When we were younger and not making much money, we sailed in inside cabins.  When our income and priorities changed, we started booking ocean view, then followed by balconies.  Now that we're in our 50's and have a much higher income, we now sail in Haven class.  Are we now wealthy?  Not by any stretch.  But my husband and I work damn hard throughout the year, so we intend to spend our time and money in a manner that suits us. We certainly won't apologize, and if the OP wants to view the various cabin levels as class levels, that's on him.

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