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Azamara Toiletry Campaign

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4 hours ago, Werangels said:

nd I don't hate the environment, I am ready to make different sacrifices but don't really want to start with those darling little bottles.

I know I’m going to get burned here but I feel very strongly about this final sentence on your post

You may be aware o the following fact but if not here goes

Different kinds of plastic can degrade at different times, but the average time for a plastic bottle to completely degrade is at least 450 years. It can even take some bottles 1000 years to biodegrade! That's a long time for even the smallest bottle

 

So I’m afraid your darling little bottles are going to be around and causing future generations massive environmental problems long after you and I are long gone

I do not want this to sound like a personal attack’s but want to raise awareness that we can still enjoy our luxury products but it won’t literally cost the earth

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, gymfreak said:

I know I’m going to get burned here but I feel very strongly about this final sentence on your post

You may be aware o the following fact but if not here goes

Different kinds of plastic can degrade at different times, but the average time for a plastic bottle to completely degrade is at least 450 years. It can even take some bottles 1000 years to biodegrade! That's a long time for even the smallest bottle

 

So I’m afraid your darling little bottles are going to be around and causing future generations massive environmental problems long after you and I are long gone

I do not want this to sound like a personal attack’s but want to raise awareness that we can still enjoy our luxury products but it won’t literally cost the earth.

Thanks for writing this. 

 

I have to say I'm appalled by the attitude that something isn't "luxury" so it's not good enough for someone.  It's time people got their heads around the environmental crises we're facing and stopped whining how they won't be able to give their little bottles of "luxury" stuff --that costs them nothing--to charities.  Give 'em money to buy shampoo, instead.  

 

I'm so sick of reading about dead marine life--whales, sea birds, etc.--washing up on shore with stomachs full of plastic.  The selfishness of some here amazes.

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I was well aware that what I posted would not sit well with some, and I am well informed on what you are saying. I never suggested that it should be thrown into the ocean or garbage. Many types of plastics are recyclable and do not have to end up in the landfill. They can buy from companies that use recycled plastic in their packaging too.   I know how to check which plastics are recyclable before I buy it and how to sort everything. Still, I think the customer-facing side of MANY businesses try to portray environmental stewardship by taking away the bottles, suggesting they don’t wash the towels etc (which also saves them money), but in the back of the house, they don’t recycle and pollute on many levels because it’s inconvenient and expensive to do otherwise. I’m not pointing fingers at Azamara, I have no idea what they do on their ships. 

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13 minutes ago, marinaro44 said:

 

I'm so sick of reading about dead marine life--whales, sea birds, etc.--washing up on shore with stomachs full of plastic.  The selfishness of some here amazes.

And the rudeness of others amazes me. Considering the environmental impacts of cruise travel as an industry, I don’t think anyone on here should be preaching about this topic at all as it’s very hypocritical. An environmental  high-horse is easy to fall from.  

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2 hours ago, gymfreak said:

I know I’m going to get burned here but I feel very strongly about this final sentence on your post

You may be aware o the following fact but if not here goes

Different kinds of plastic can degrade at different times, but the average time for a plastic bottle to completely degrade is at least 450 years. It can even take some bottles 1000 years to biodegrade! That's a long time for even the smallest bottle

 

So I’m afraid your darling little bottles are going to be around and causing future generations massive environmental problems long after you and I are long gone

I do not want this to sound like a personal attack’s but want to raise awareness that we can still enjoy our luxury products but it won’t literally cost the earth

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gymfreak you have quoted this in your reply and somehow cut and pasted it and managed to make it look as though it was my post which it wasn’t.

 

 

F72ED375-9476-4E82-B198-6B8B9A079561.png

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55 minutes ago, marinaro44 said:

Thanks for writing this. 

 

I have to say I'm appalled by the attitude that something isn't "luxury" so it's not good enough for someone.  It's time people got their heads around the environmental crises we're facing and stopped whining how they won't be able to give their little bottles of "luxury" stuff --that costs them nothing--to charities.  Give 'em money to buy shampoo, instead.  

 

I'm so sick of reading about dead marine life--whales, sea birds, etc.--washing up on shore with stomachs full of plastic.  The selfishness of some here amazes.

  

Marinaro, if you are referring to my comment about women’s refuges I suggest you go back and read it properly.  Forgive me if I am wrong but from what you have wrote it looks to me like you haven’t fully read what I wrote.  Apologies if that is not the case but I cannot see any other post referring to giving ‘stuff’ to charities.

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4 minutes ago, Werangels said:

 

Gymfreak you have quoted this in your reply and somehow cut and pasted it and managed to make it look as though it was my post which it wasn’t.

 

 

F72ED375-9476-4E82-B198-6B8B9A079561.png

Sorry I realise it was not your post 

I aplologise for the error

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15 minutes ago, gymfreak said:

Sorry I realise it was not your post 

I aplologise for the error

 

Thank you for the apology.  It is appreciated.

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Back to the plastics/dispenser issue - I think we all agree that it’s time to start doing something, anything to help with the myriad of environmental issues that exist. Often people feel overwhelmed by there being so many problems and we feel too small to do anything.  All the problems raised from cruise travel itself, to laundry, to food wrap and plastic bottles (all of which barely skim the surface) need to be addressed, but we can’t fix it all at once. If each of us does our part, pick the issue that gets you in the gut the most, and act on it, headway will be made.  Azamara seems to be picking up on dispensers instead of small bottles - kudos for a first step.  Something is better than nothing.  Let’s get this one underway and then identify another issue and move on it.  I think it would be pretty cool if we felt a part of this initiative rather than inhibit it.  

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We tested the new products.  Both container contents were the same size however we noted that the Malin product did not go nearly as far as the Elemis.  More interesting, the containers that the items were in, the Elemis could be accepted in our recycling collection box, the Malin could not.

I would be happy with a free standing larger container of each product that lasted 7 days, something screwed to the wall, sorry no.  The free standing container could be refillable.  Any container they use will have to be able to be taken out and sanitised or disposed of regularly.  

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Quest has dispensers in the spa showers. Not sure what brand products are in the dispensers.  Just hope that there are still bars of solid soap. I hate washing with liquid soap. 

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4 hours ago, Redtravel said:

Quest has dispensers in the spa showers. Not sure what brand products are in the dispensers.  Just hope that there are still bars of solid soap. I hate washing with liquid soap. 

 

As does Pursuit.  They smell like Elemis on Pursuit.  

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I don’t care how I get the products, it’s the quality of the products that’s important to me, so I applaud efforts to give me a good product in a way that helps the environment.

Next can we persuade Azamara to provide cotton buds with a cardboard stick, rather that the current ones with the plastic sticks. These are a real danger to marine life.

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13 minutes ago, Host Grandma Cruising said:

I don’t care how I get the products, it’s the quality of the products that’s important to me, so I applaud efforts to give me a good product in a way that helps the environment.

Next can we persuade Azamara to provide cotton buds with a cardboard stick, rather that the current ones with the plastic sticks. These are a real danger to marine life.

I’d rather they did away with cotton buds altogether not really needed 

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Are they saving the waves or just saving money?  Each time that I have sailed on Azamara, there are differences. Toiletries have changed at least 3 times. Hotels change toiletries too. I always bring my own toiletries. If I happen to like what I get in a hotel or cruise, it’s great. If I don’t like the included toiletries, I use my own.  Keeps me happy. Why not just eliminate all toiletries and tell guests to bring their own. That would probably make many guests angry.  Dispensers on the wall? How many guests will get angry? 

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I am amazed to learn here that tiny bottles of toiletries are luxurious somehow.  I have had the pleasure of staying at two lovely Kimpton hotels in the past few months and both had large bottles of shampoo, conditioner, and body wash mounted on the wall in the shower(really great products by Atelier Bloem that smelled amazing).  I thought it was wonderful.  I was excited to not have to worry about running out of conditioner.  And also excited to not be creating waste that will still be here in 400 years just to wash my hair.  Is some plastic recyclable?  Yes.  Does putting plastic in your recycling bin mean that it gets recycled?  No.  Reducing plastic use is much more effective than continuing to use single use plastics and thinking it's all good because you put it in the recycling bin.  91% of plastic is never recycled.  https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/plastic-produced-recycling-waste-ocean-trash-debris-environment/ Now that China is refusing to accept plastic recycling, you can bet a lot of what you put in your recycling bin is going to the landfill.   https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/china-has-stopped-accepting-our-trash/584131/

 

I am delighted that Azamara is hopefully going to do away with the tiny bottles and go to dispensers.  

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34 minutes ago, aimee0715 said:

I am amazed to learn here that tiny bottles of toiletries are luxurious somehow.  I have had the pleasure of staying at two lovely Kimpton hotels in the past few months and both had large bottles of shampoo, conditioner, and body wash mounted on the wall in the shower(really great products by Atelier Bloem that smelled amazing).  I thought it was wonderful.  I was excited to not have to worry about running out of conditioner.  And also excited to not be creating waste that will still be here in 400 years just to wash my hair.  Is some plastic recyclable?  Yes.  Does putting plastic in your recycling bin mean that it gets recycled?  No.  Reducing plastic use is much more effective than continuing to use single use plastics and thinking it's all good because you put it in the recycling bin.  91% of plastic is never recycled.  https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/plastic-produced-recycling-waste-ocean-trash-debris-environment/ Now that China is refusing to accept plastic recycling, you can bet a lot of what you put in your recycling bin is going to the landfill.   https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/china-has-stopped-accepting-our-trash/584131/

 

I am delighted that Azamara is hopefully going to do away with the tiny bottles and go to dispensers.  

 

Aimee I completely agree however I do think it is better not tied to a wall!  Just put a card in the bathroom to say if they find their way into your luggage, you will be charged and if you would prefer shiny new ones; there are prices in the folder on the desk and they are available in the shop!

 

Interestingly, re: China.  We spend a lot of time on Corfu, one of the Greek Islands and the villages have a recycling initiative and are selling their recycling including all the plastic to private companies outside Greece to be recycled.  I know it is one small island but there must be other uses? I don’t know much about this though!

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On 6/26/2019 at 5:27 PM, Riocca said:

Applaud the effort to reduce plastic use onboard, however filling personal water bottles from the current water dispensers does present a hygiene risk and is the quickest way to spread things like norovirus. Some lines have banned refilling personal water bottles from these dispensers and fountains.

What it would require is the addition of water bottle filling machines where there is no chance of the bottles coming into contact with the dispense head. If we are refilling a bottle we do it from the taps in the cabin adding ice if required not a public dispenser.

Good point. The last thing we need is  Norovirus. 

Which brings me to the point of people using the hand sanitiser before going into the restaurants. A must do even though you may have washed your hands. 

 

I take all my my own toiletries in my own plastic bottles that I can reuse time and time again. 

Edited by DRJVH

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Couldn’t disagree more. The bathroom, and storage space available in it, is small enough without having larger bottles cluttering the place up. Dispensers on the wall would mean more storage space available - no spares on shelves etc, no large bottles on the small shelves in the shower.

 

Edited by Host Grandma Cruising

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2 minutes ago, Host Grandma Cruising said:

Couldn’t disagree more. The bathroom, and storage space available in it, is small enough without having larger bottles cluttering the place up. Dispensers on the wall would mean more storage space available - no spares on shelves etc, no large bottles on the small shelves in the shower.

 

 

Fair point.

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17 minutes ago, Host Grandma Cruising said:

Couldn’t disagree more. The bathroom, and storage space available in it, is small enough without having larger bottles cluttering the place up. Dispensers on the wall would mean more storage space available - no spares on shelves etc, no large bottles on the small shelves in the shower.

 

But what height do they put them at? This will be an issue.  If we assume the body lotion is placed by the sink, that’s still a holder to insert for three larger dispensers - where in the tiny showers will they do that?  I’m ok with the showers as they are, need the shower caddy in the corner for when I use my own products and would want that to remain.  

There is a risk people will knock into and even hurt themselves on a wall mounting.

Another risk is the floor, unless the caps are extremely well designed the products might at times drip and create a slip hazard. 

Whilst I have seen wall mounted products in some mid range hotels I’ve never seen them in a space as small as an Azamara shower and whilst they might be ok in RC and X showers the layout of the Azamara showers do not lend themselves to wall mounted products.

The Elemis product we tested was in a more substantial recyclable small size bottle, the other products were not recyclable.  That would be progress if that product was adopted with the addition of selecting a larger size bottle but please please not wall mounted. Not everyone will have the reach or agility to manage them in an Azamara verandah shower. 

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2 hours ago, uktog said:

But what height do they put them at? This will be an issue.  If we assume the body lotion is placed by the sink, that’s still a holder to insert for three larger dispensers - where in the tiny showers will they do that?  I’m ok with the showers as they are, need the shower caddy in the corner for when I use my own products and would want that to remain.  

There is a risk people will knock into and even hurt themselves on a wall mounting.

Another risk is the floor, unless the caps are extremely well designed the products might at times drip and create a slip hazard. 

Whilst I have seen wall mounted products in some mid range hotels I’ve never seen them in a space as small as an Azamara shower and whilst they might be ok in RC and X showers the layout of the Azamara showers do not lend themselves to wall mounted products.

The Elemis product we tested was in a more substantial recyclable small size bottle, the other products were not recyclable.  That would be progress if that product was adopted with the addition of selecting a larger size bottle but please please not wall mounted. Not everyone will have the reach or agility to manage them in an Azamara verandah shower. 

 

Good points that need to be seriously considered.

 

Unfortunately, in our jurisdiction “recyclable plastic” is a bit of an oxymoron.

 

Perhaps the staff in the ship environment can be more diligent at separating the types of plastic than we, as a wider society, manage to be.

 

I’m not certain how optimistic I am about that.

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