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26 minutes ago, NebraskaSatellite said:

Here's a graph of the Vista's speed over the past 24 hours, showing a drop to less than 2 knots around 0140 UTC (8:40 pm CDT).

 

image.png.f079c49274d7bd440ddc085c6ab77eb9.png

Makes sense, she looked pretty dead in the water from the videos that were posted.  

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People who are onboard at the moment were pasting our our FB site that all is well, no one was suffering, yes AC & Lights were out for a bit in the front half of the ship, but there was no mass panic or anger boiling over at Guest Services as some had reported... They also said that the power in the front of the ship was out in total for about an hour- the aft never lost power.

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17 hours ago, jbethel11 said:

It has nothing to do with the shipyards. ABB, the azipod manufacture gave Carnival free azipod units when the QM2 had azipod malfunctions so that Carnival would remain a customer. 

 

In retrospect, do you think Carnival is pleased with their decision to remain a customer? 

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11 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Ship was built in Italy, not sure what that has to do with it.....  

 

It could be argued that Fincantieri has built the majority of the ships that have given Carnival the most grief, over time. 

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16 minutes ago, Thorncroft said:

 

It could be argued that Fincantieri has built the majority of the ships that have given Carnival the most grief, over time. 

 

i guess that might be why Carnival stopped using them and is using a different shipyard for the Mardi Gras

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1 hour ago, Thorncroft said:

 

It could be argued that Fincantieri has built the majority of the ships that have given Carnival the most grief, over time. 

Since they have made the vast majority of Carnival ships, you could say that.  You could also say that they had zero to do with it, as appears to be the case here.

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1 hour ago, shof515 said:

 

i guess that might be why Carnival stopped using them and is using a different shipyard for the Mardi Gras

I would love to have been a fly on the wall as to what the reason they moved away from Fincantieri

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1 hour ago, Thorncroft said:

 

In retrospect, do you think Carnival is pleased with their decision to remain a customer? 

Interesting question, and I am sure there are issues there. One of the problems though, is that there are not that many manufacturers of azipods that I am aware of. I only know of six, Fischer Panda, Rolls-Royce, ABB, Schottel, Reintjes and Thrustmaster. And I would doubt that at least three of them, maybe four, have the capacity that CCL would need. I'm thinking that they are pretty much limited to two, ABB and Rolls-Royce. And I believe they both have had their share of 'issues'. Without knowing the specifics of the issue we are just guessing; not only about the issue, but the best resolution as well.

 

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3 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Since they have made the vast majority of Carnival ships, you could say that.  You could also say that they had zero to do with it, as appears to be the case here.

 

I'm not sure that we can definitively say that Fincantieri had zero to do with this. There's a history of electrical problems with their Fincantieri ships, no? They also made a spectacle of the Sunshine conversion, as choronicled by Dry Dock Dave, back at that time. I, personally, am pleased to see them moving away from Fincantieri with their future ships. 

 

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1 minute ago, Thorncroft said:

 

I'm not sure that we can definitively say that Fincantieri had zero to do with this. There's a history of electrical problems with their Fincantieri ships, no? They also made a spectacle of the Sunshine conversion, as choronicled by Dry Dock Dave, back at that time. I, personally, am pleased to see them moving away from Fincantieri with their future ships. 

 

I am not sure we will ever know for sure.  There certainly were issues.  I cannot say I am displeased to see the Mardi Gras being built elsewhere.  I could google it but to lazy, but I think Fincantieri might be the largest ship builder on the world.... If I am wrong I am sure I will be corrected.  Vista is currently our fav Carnival ship (even with the problem).

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When did Carnival indicate that the Vista power problems were due to construction issues?

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1 minute ago, jimbo5544 said:

I am not sure we will ever know for sure.  There certainly were issues.  I cannot say I am displeased to see the Mardi Gras being built elsewhere.  I could google it but to lazy, but I think Fincantieri might be the largest ship builder on the world.... If I am wrong I am sure I will be corrected.  Vista is currently our fav Carnival ship (even with the problem).

 

I know that Fincantieri has a presence nearly everywhere.  They own the Marinette Marine shipyard in Wisconsin who builds the Freedom class LCS for the US Navy.  Those ships have been fraught with problems from the first ship in the series, with one breaking down on it's maiden voyage and having to be towed to Newport News.  I'm not impressed with them. 

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3 minutes ago, broberts said:

When did Carnival indicate that the Vista power problems were due to construction issues?

I haven't seen that they ever did. Could be strictly with the pods, could include power wiring, or power distribution control issues caused by alarm activation or some other fail safe devise.

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7 minutes ago, broberts said:

When did Carnival indicate that the Vista power problems were due to construction issues?

 

I doubt that Carnival will ever tell us anything that we don't absolutely need to know. 

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2 hours ago, Thorncroft said:

 

In retrospect, do you think Carnival is pleased with their decision to remain a customer? 

I don't think Carnival is pleased with ABB, but I don't know of any other azipod manufacturer!

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4 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I would love to have been a fly on the wall as to what the reason they moved away from Fincantieri

I was told by a senior CCL official that even though CCL prevented Fincantieri from going bankrupt during hard times, Fincantieri shows no appreciation.  He said that Fincantieri is giving preference to MSC and has become quite difficult for CCL to work with.

 

I was happy to see CCL go to Finland for the XL class.  The workmanship on the Spirit class ships built in Finland is so much better than those built by Fincantieri.

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On 7/2/2019 at 10:18 PM, Organized Chaos said:

 

You won't ever see me praise or defend JH because I think...well, I won't say what I think because it upsets some people. With that said, if any given passenger reports a "total blackout," I'd take it with a huge grain of salt. It could easily be exaggerated since no one passenger knows everything that's happening across a 1,000+ ft. long ship from where they're standing.

 

First the Azipods, now this. That ship can't seem to catch a break.

 

 

Exactly . . . One person's observation is very limited

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On 7/3/2019 at 4:29 AM, jbethel11 said:

It has nothing to do with the shipyards. ABB, the azipod manufacture gave Carnival free azipod units when the QM2 had azipod malfunctions so that Carnival would remain a customer. 

Not quite correct.  The QM2 uses Rolls-Royce Mermaid pods, not ABB azipods.  The RR model has been more problematic than ABB units, which is why ABB dominates the market.

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Really wasn't going to weigh in here, due to the wild speculation and finger pointing, but I got sucked in.

 

Each main fire zone on the ship has a separate power distribution panel, for all types of power: outlets, lights, ventilation, any galley or restaurant power, etc.  The ship's generators are divided so that half supply power to one main power bus, and half supply a second power bus.  These two buses are normally joined at a "tie" breaker, so that the generators share the entire load.  Each of the fire zone power distribution panels can be fed from each of the two main power buses, so that if there is a problem with one bus, they can switch to feeding the power from the other.  This incident sounds like they were running all the generators on one bus (she has 5 generators, so I don't know how they are split, and don't know the power demand (speed) at the time), and the "tie" breaker failed, and the forward part of the ship was being fed from the bus that had no generators on it.  It then took time to start a generator on the dead bus, and reconnect all the tripped power to that part of the ship.  This system also produces the redundancy in the propulsion, as half of the power for each azipod comes from each of the main buses.

 

The picture of the smoke.  Was this a long term smoking, or just a minute or so?  You will always get this when starting a diesel engine, particularly when burning residual fuel.  The comment about emergency generator running, I doubt, as the emergency generator only supplies about 1/4 of normal lighting, very little hotel function, and mostly only the power needed to evacuate the ship.

 

As for the AIS indication of NUC, it would be normal for the engineers to reduce remaining power to the azipods before trying to reclose the "tie" breaker, as this would create an instantaneous huge power draw as the half power to the pods was restored, unless you slowed down to reduce this load.  I can't remember if the AIS defaults to NUC when at sea and drifting, or whether the bridge officer may have input this into the system.  There is no power interruption to navigational equipment during power losses, as the battery banks are always connected and charging.

 

As for repeated power "outages", again, were these total power outages, or only some areas, and only some services?  This can be normal, when restoring power to a dead bus, as you never know what damage was caused when the power failed, and some things you try to close a breaker, and something on that circuit is wrong, and it pops again.

 

Now to blame on the shipyard.  Folks need to realize that the shipyard is merely an assembly plant, and 100% of the machinery and electrical equipment is not manufactured there, it is bought from specialty manufacturers, and so very likely both ships built at Fincantieri or Meyer Werft will use the same electrical equipment manufacturer, especially for a single client to make Carnival's spare parts procurement easier by only having one supplier.  Decisions as to what supplier to use for major equipment is made by both the shipyard and the owner.

 

The major issues with Fincantieri were caused by labor disputes and sabotage by workers, not by any general "shoddiness" of the construction.

 

Vista has 5 main engines (3 9.6Mw diesels, and 2 16.8Mw diesels), and an emergency generator (the engine mentioned as "being up high").  The main diesels generate 10,000 volt power for the large consumers like azipods and AC (and step it down for smaller users to 480/220/120 volt), while the emergency generator only produces 480 and lower power, so it cannot be used for propulsion or AC, and has a limited capacity of about 2-3Mw.

 

I'm going to leave it here for now.

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1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Really wasn't going to weigh in here, due to the wild speculation and finger pointing, but I got sucked in.

 

Each main fire zone on the ship has a separate power distribution panel, for all types of power: outlets, lights, ventilation, any galley or restaurant power, etc.  The ship's generators are divided so that half supply power to one main power bus, and half supply a second power bus.  These two buses are normally joined at a "tie" breaker, so that the generators share the entire load.  Each of the fire zone power distribution panels can be fed from each of the two main power buses, so that if there is a problem with one bus, they can switch to feeding the power from the other.  This incident sounds like they were running all the generators on one bus (she has 5 generators, so I don't know how they are split, and don't know the power demand (speed) at the time), and the "tie" breaker failed, and the forward part of the ship was being fed from the bus that had no generators on it.  It then took time to start a generator on the dead bus, and reconnect all the tripped power to that part of the ship.  This system also produces the redundancy in the propulsion, as half of the power for each azipod comes from each of the main buses.

 

The picture of the smoke.  Was this a long term smoking, or just a minute or so?  You will always get this when starting a diesel engine, particularly when burning residual fuel.  The comment about emergency generator running, I doubt, as the emergency generator only supplies about 1/4 of normal lighting, very little hotel function, and mostly only the power needed to evacuate the ship.

 

As for the AIS indication of NUC, it would be normal for the engineers to reduce remaining power to the azipods before trying to reclose the "tie" breaker, as this would create an instantaneous huge power draw as the half power to the pods was restored, unless you slowed down to reduce this load.  I can't remember if the AIS defaults to NUC when at sea and drifting, or whether the bridge officer may have input this into the system.  There is no power interruption to navigational equipment during power losses, as the battery banks are always connected and charging.

 

As for repeated power "outages", again, were these total power outages, or only some areas, and only some services?  This can be normal, when restoring power to a dead bus, as you never know what damage was caused when the power failed, and some things you try to close a breaker, and something on that circuit is wrong, and it pops again.

 

Now to blame on the shipyard.  Folks need to realize that the shipyard is merely an assembly plant, and 100% of the machinery and electrical equipment is not manufactured there, it is bought from specialty manufacturers, and so very likely both ships built at Fincantieri or Meyer Werft will use the same electrical equipment manufacturer, especially for a single client to make Carnival's spare parts procurement easier by only having one supplier.  Decisions as to what supplier to use for major equipment is made by both the shipyard and the owner.

 

The major issues with Fincantieri were caused by labor disputes and sabotage by workers, not by any general "shoddiness" of the construction.

 

Vista has 5 main engines (3 9.6Mw diesels, and 2 16.8Mw diesels), and an emergency generator (the engine mentioned as "being up high").  The main diesels generate 10,000 volt power for the large consumers like azipods and AC (and step it down for smaller users to 480/220/120 volt), while the emergency generator only produces 480 and lower power, so it cannot be used for propulsion or AC, and has a limited capacity of about 2-3Mw.

 

I'm going to leave it here for now.

You at times maze me....thanks

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Ship is now going to be diverted to Cozumel for a quick stop due to a medical emergency onboard with a passenger. Hope the passenger will be OK. 

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5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Not quite correct.  The QM2 uses Rolls-Royce Mermaid pods, not ABB azipods.  The RR model has been more problematic than ABB units, which is why ABB dominates the market.

Oh, that's weird! I was informed that ABB gave free azipods way to Carnival as a commiseration. Instagram was mistaken, lol. Funny to find that Altsom makes the azipod too. Perhaps if Siemens were the manufacturer, it would encounter fewer problems. 

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1 hour ago, jbethel11 said:

Oh, that's weird! I was informed that ABB gave free azipods way to Carnival as a commiseration. Instagram was mistaken, lol. Funny to find that Altsom makes the azipod too. Perhaps if Siemens were the manufacturer, it would encounter fewer problems. 

Just a technicality, but "azipod" is a trademarked term of ABB.  Rolls-Royce Altsom uses the name "podded propulsion system".  If the problem is in the bearings, then it would be an ABB problem.  The motor windings themselves, and the power converter system that controls the azipod could be made by Siemens, but ABB leads the industry in market share of "distributed control systems", with Siemens in third place.  ABB is the result of a merger of Brown Boveri, a Swiss electrical manufacturer, and Asea AB, a Swedish electrical manufacturer.

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25 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Just a technicality, but "azipod" is a trademarked term of ABB.  Rolls-Royce Altsom uses the name "podded propulsion system".  If the problem is in the bearings, then it would be an ABB problem.  The motor windings themselves, and the power converter system that controls the azipod could be made by Siemens, but ABB leads the industry in market share of "distributed control systems", with Siemens in third place.  ABB is the result of a merger of Brown Boveri, a Swiss electrical manufacturer, and Asea AB, a Swedish electrical manufacturer.

Just to be clear, if more than bearings, you think it will be hard to get done in the time frame allotted and back to Galveston?

 

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6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Really wasn't going to weigh in here, due to the wild speculation and finger pointing, but I got sucked in.

 

Each main fire zone on the ship has a separate power distribution panel, for all types of power: outlets, lights, ventilation, any galley or restaurant power, etc.  The ship's generators are divided so that half supply power to one main power bus, and half supply a second power bus.  These two buses are normally joined at a "tie" breaker, so that the generators share the entire load.  Each of the fire zone power distribution panels can be fed from each of the two main power buses, so that if there is a problem with one bus, they can switch to feeding the power from the other.  This incident sounds like they were running all the generators on one bus (she has 5 generators, so I don't know how they are split, and don't know the power demand (speed) at the time), and the "tie" breaker failed, and the forward part of the ship was being fed from the bus that had no generators on it.  It then took time to start a generator on the dead bus, and reconnect all the tripped power to that part of the ship.  This system also produces the redundancy in the propulsion, as half of the power for each azipod comes from each of the main buses.

 

The picture of the smoke.  Was this a long term smoking, or just a minute or so?  You will always get this when starting a diesel engine, particularly when burning residual fuel.  The comment about emergency generator running, I doubt, as the emergency generator only supplies about 1/4 of normal lighting, very little hotel function, and mostly only the power needed to evacuate the ship.

 

As for the AIS indication of NUC, it would be normal for the engineers to reduce remaining power to the azipods before trying to reclose the "tie" breaker, as this would create an instantaneous huge power draw as the half power to the pods was restored, unless you slowed down to reduce this load.  I can't remember if the AIS defaults to NUC when at sea and drifting, or whether the bridge officer may have input this into the system.  There is no power interruption to navigational equipment during power losses, as the battery banks are always connected and charging.

 

As for repeated power "outages", again, were these total power outages, or only some areas, and only some services?  This can be normal, when restoring power to a dead bus, as you never know what damage was caused when the power failed, and some things you try to close a breaker, and something on that circuit is wrong, and it pops again.

 

Now to blame on the shipyard.  Folks need to realize that the shipyard is merely an assembly plant, and 100% of the machinery and electrical equipment is not manufactured there, it is bought from specialty manufacturers, and so very likely both ships built at Fincantieri or Meyer Werft will use the same electrical equipment manufacturer, especially for a single client to make Carnival's spare parts procurement easier by only having one supplier.  Decisions as to what supplier to use for major equipment is made by both the shipyard and the owner.

 

The major issues with Fincantieri were caused by labor disputes and sabotage by workers, not by any general "shoddiness" of the construction.

 

Vista has 5 main engines (3 9.6Mw diesels, and 2 16.8Mw diesels), and an emergency generator (the engine mentioned as "being up high").  The main diesels generate 10,000 volt power for the large consumers like azipods and AC (and step it down for smaller users to 480/220/120 volt), while the emergency generator only produces 480 and lower power, so it cannot be used for propulsion or AC, and has a limited capacity of about 2-3Mw.

 

I'm going to leave it here for now.

It's always a pleasure seeing you post. Thanks for the information- I found it very informative.

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