Family's statement on toddler's cruise death

[NLH Arizona]

3 hours ago, newmexicoNita said:

and we all know, regardless of what happened the family will end up winning a case against Royal Caribbean. This whole thing is just too sad for words. 

Not so sure about this Nita.  I think the only way the family wins is if Royal Caribbean comes to an out of court settlement, something I hope they don't do.  

[Son of a son of a ...]

3 minutes ago, ZandZ said:

Great point!!!!  

 

this brought back a memory.  When my now teen was a baby/toddler, my MIL sat him on a balcony railing (second floor).  I saw this, i remember that feeling, when the bottom drops under you...  I had a complete meltdown.  She complied with my wishes (at least when I was around lol), but never understood what my issue was as she "was holding him tight".  She was a wonderful woman, may she RIP,  a caregiver for my kids and I consider them to be very lucky to have known her.  She was one of the most interesting, caring and compassionate human beings I have ever met.  Who made some bad judgement calls, clearly.  

 

And, I would pick you as a juror.  

 

The questions are whether it is reasonably foreseeable that someone would put their child on the rail and whether it was reasonably foreseeable that items, including children, fall from the rail through an open window.

 

There might have been signage warning about the railing, but its effectiveness is arguable is not in the grandfather's language or not depicted by symbol given that the grandfather may have sight or comprehension issues.  

 

Let the lawyers fight about it.

 

[ZandZ]

1 minute ago, Son of a son of a ... said:

 

And, I would pick you as a juror.  

 

The questions are whether it is reasonably foreseeable that someone would put their child on the rail and whether it was reasonably foreseeable that items, including children, fall from the rail through an open window.

 

There might have been signage warning about the railing, but its effectiveness is arguable is not in the grandfather's language or not depicted by symbol given that the grandfather may have sight or comprehension issues.  

 

Let the lawyers fight about it.

 

my hope here is that the family is not being victimized further by the attorney(s).  Yes, this might have started out as a fear of criminal/negligent charges but it will quickly escalate into a lawsuit - even if for the simple reason of a family's need to make sense of this tragedy and put blame outside their loved ones.  A horrible situation all around and on many levels.

 

 

As a side note, the world LOVES to sensationalize anything  cruise related.  I wonder how many times kids fall from balconies while on land vacations.  Is it talked about so much? Unless, ya know, it happens in DR (<-- sarcasm).

[TNcruising02]

I've been on RCL and have seen the open windows.  I do not think a person could mistake an open window for a closed one.  Not only is it different in appearance, you definitely feel the open breeze.  It sounds like the family decided to blame the cruise line in order to defend the grandfather.  The grandfather probably lifted the child knowingly to the open window so that the child could see out and accidentally dropped the child.  It was definitely very poor judgement, but also a tragic accident.  Prayers to the family.  They will never get over this.

When I was young, I found out one of my relatives, who was three at the time, drowned in an above ground pool.  Very sad and the family never got over it.  

[GeezerCouple]

31 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is the part that really gets to me, from the lawyer.  Yes, a child standing on the floor banging on glass at a hockey rink is normal, and safe.  Placing a child on a 39" high 4" wide wood railing to bang on the glass is not the smartest thing to do.  Obviously, letting go of the child, while balanced on the railing, even if the window was closed, is even dumber.  For the lawyer to say that it isn't safe to have opening windows in an area where children play would be correct, if the windows were at floor height.  Vision issues, or issues of impairment aside, why would you let go of a child balancing on a railing over 3 feet above a hard deck surface?

 

Unfortunately, a photo online seems to show that same toddler (?), apparently a bit younger/smaller, banging on hockey windows, but she has quite obviously been lifted, as the lower part of the barrier wall is solid.

 

But to me, IF the child is "used to banging/leaning on windows", then the burden is even MORE heavy on caregivers to make sure the wee one doesn't do it in unsafe places.

 

And I'd question the wisdom of doing it the 'regular way' they did it, but that's a different issue.

 

A tragedy, no matter how it happened.

 

GC

[Quencups]

Listen, even if there were NO open windows, would u sit your toddler on a railing and allow her to “bang on the glass” 11 decks up?  Blaming RCCL is ridiculous. as tragic as it is, and I cannot even imagine what this family is going through, unfortunately, IMO the grandfather is the one who put the baby in a dangerous position. 😢. Very, very sad. 

[mjkacmom]

38 minutes ago, ZandZ said:

my hope here is that the family is not being victimized further by the attorney(s).  Yes, this might have started out as a fear of criminal/negligent charges but it will quickly escalate into a lawsuit - even if for the simple reason of a family's need to make sense of this tragedy and put blame outside their loved ones.  A horrible situation all around and on many levels.

 

 

As a side note, the world LOVES to sensationalize anything  cruise related.  I wonder how many times kids fall from balconies while on land vacations.  Is it talked about so much? Unless, ya know, it happens in DR (<-- sarcasm).

I think the family is being victimized by the greedy attorney trying to profit on this tragedy. There is no way in this short amount of time they thought to lawyer up, I doubt they’ve eaten or bathed. I do not think the cruise line has any responsibility, and it’s a shame their lives are going to be made anymore difficult if they file a lawsuit.

[LrgPizza]

What does this specifically have to do with NCL?

[GA Dave]

2 minutes ago, LrgPizza said:

What does this specifically have to do with NCL?

Maybe the fact that things like this can happen on any ship.  There are many hazards on NCL ships for people of all sizes that some education and a little common sense will eliminate. 

[LrgPizza]

Just now, GA Dave said:

Maybe the fact that things like this can happen on any ship.  There are many hazards on NCL ships for people of all sizes that some education and a little common sense will eliminate. 

 

Of course they can, and there are general forums for that. It's being discussed elsewhere, so I was just curious what it specifically has to do with NCL that it would also need discussed in a forum all about NCL? 

[GA Dave]

1 minute ago, LrgPizza said:

 

Of course they can, and there are general forums for that. It's being discussed elsewhere, so I was just curious what it specifically has to do with NCL that it would also need discussed in a forum all about NCL? 

Because a lot of people like me are naturally lazy and only come to the NCL forum.  😀

[kren250]

8 minutes ago, GA Dave said:

Because a lot of people like me are naturally lazy and only come to the NCL forum.  😀

 

Not to mention, any thread started on the Royal Caribbean forum gets deleted.

[DZcreature]

14 minutes ago, LrgPizza said:

 

Of course they can, and there are general forums for that. It's being discussed elsewhere, so I was just curious what it specifically has to do with NCL that it would also need discussed in a forum all about NCL? 

Where can I find the general forum that is discussing this? There is no thread on the RCCL forum. I am glad there is a thread here at least. It is a reminder to all that even if you have a good grip on a small child, they can slip and accidents happen.The baby may have been more slippery due to sun screen, since they were in the children's splash area. 

 

 I have been on Freedom of the Seas, and definitely think that it is obvious to see where the open windows are. I hope that the cruise lines do not start locking these windows due to one tragic accident. This serves as a wake up call to anyone who would consider holding a child near an opening several stories high.

 

 

[jenf22]

My guess is the baby asked grandpa to pick her up, he picked her up to look out the window, she went to bang on the glass that wasn't there, and she slipped out of his hands.  I'm pretty sure he knew the window was open but probably didn't know she would lunge for the window not knowing there was no glass there.  Littles move quick and sometimes they do very unexpected things.  I know I almost dropped my son once or twice because he lunged for something while I was holding him.  I imagine it's the lawyer who is telling the family what "happened".  The family has to be so numb they're willing to grasp on to anything that makes it less than a tragic accident.

 

I am so saddened by this whole story.  The poor parents, the grandpa, everyone.  Their whole family dynamic is forever changed.  RIP little one.

Edited July 10, 2019 by jenf22

[DZcreature]

12 minutes ago, jenf22 said:

My guess is the baby asked grandpa to pick her up, he picked her up to look out the window, she went to bang on the glass that wasn't there, and she slipped out of his hands.  I'm pretty sure he knew the window was open but probably didn't know she would lunge for the window not knowing there was no glass there.  Littles move quick and sometimes they do very unexpected things.  I know I almost dropped my son once or twice because he lunged for something while I was holding him.  I imagine it's the lawyer who is telling the family what "happened".  The family has to be so numb they're willing to grasp on to anything that makes it less than a tragic accident.

 

I am so saddened by this whole story.  The poor parents, the grandpa, everyone.  Their whole family dynamic is forever changed.  RIP little one.

I think you are probably correct. It is very sad. I hope the family can find comfort in hoping this story helps others. My thought and prayers go out to Grandpa who is surely devastated by this accident.

[IrieBajan54]

Nowadays, it is routine to blame someone else instead of taking personal responsibility. The grandpa lifted the child and put her on the rail. No common sense!

 

Even if he isn't prosecuted, he will not be invited to anymore Thanksgiving dinners.

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, mjkacmom said:

I think the family is being victimized by the greedy attorney trying to profit on this tragedy. There is no way in this short amount of time they thought to lawyer up, I doubt they’ve eaten or bathed. I do not think the cruise line has any responsibility, and it’s a shame their lives are going to be made anymore difficult if they file a lawsuit.

Greedy lawyer?  Not sure I can make that jump.  Frankly, the family had to agree to the lawyer’s representation.  

 

Again....so very tragic.  But, sounds (and looks) to me like a very poor decision by the Grandfather that’s allegedly being mitigated by stating “....child did it before at a hockey rink (really?  You don’t know the difference between a hockey rink and a cruise ship?).  Grandpa didn’t know the glass was open?  Trying to wrap my mind around that one, too.  What if it was Grandpa who opened the glass to sit the infant on the ledge?  Hope that’s not the case, but the video will clear up a lot of this.

 

And, not sure why this isn’t in the Royal forums, too.  It really makes no sense being over here.

[JMB1969]

I think everyone is being too judgemental of all involved.  It sounds like a tragic accident.  Good people sometimes make bad decisions.  This was a decision that had tragic consequences.  I CAN NOT imagine the grief the family, and in particular, the grandfather is experiencing.  I will not judge them too harshly for looking to find external factors to blame.  Can you imagine living with the grief that goes with being responsible for your granddaughter's death?  I can't.  

 

I have been on the sister ship of Freedom and have seen the open windows.  I do not believe Royal has any culpable responsibility here, but I will not judge the family too harshly, because what they are going through is unspeakable.  It is understandable they are looking for ANYTHING to help mitigate their guilt.  Anybody would in their situation.  

 

Such a tragedy all around.  

[HNI]

12 hours ago, bbnjcruiser said:

Indeed HNI cruise critic would do well with a full graphic, tabloid style section of sensational cruise deaths, murders, and fascinating crimes at sea accompanied by full screen gruesome photos

Since I am cruising with my granddaughter I need to know as much information on this issue. I am glad others posted details about this ship and the location of the incident. Just because you do not want to hear about it does not mean other potential passengers do not. You are hiding your head in the sand. Or are you a shill for the cruise line?

[Newleno]

16 hours ago, cruise52 said:

Seriously?  No one knows if the grandfather has vision issues.  Maybe he couldn't easily discern that it was an open window or see it as well as you or me.  Maybe they were all so excited and distracted getting on the cruise that he wasn't as attentive as he should have been.  Maybe an attorney was hired because grandpa was worried he could be prosecuted for dropping his grand daughter to her death.  I don't believe the cruise line was negligent, but I also don't believe this family is making up a story or that they are now trying to profit from this tragedy.  Accidents happen and We all make mistakes from time to time.  I truly feel for this family, but I'm shocked at how cold and judgmental people are that have no idea what actually occurred.  Who knows what details were first provided or by whom and if they were just plain wrong.  

no one knows what happened, it is a strange world, nothing i mean nothing would surprise me,  but probably just an older guy that could not figure out it was not a window, the older guy chose not to hold the child, something a person with a good working brain would not do, sometimes that is what happens to your brain when you get old.  

Edited July 10, 2019 by Newleno

[marazad16]

The child's mother is a lawyer. She also used to be the deputy prosecutor for St Joseph County. It always saddens me when you hear stories of the family suing long before the family has even grieved their loss. 

[graphicguy]

29 minutes ago, jenf22 said:

Posts show up briefly in the Royal forum but then get deleted.  There was one on the accident and one on windows in general and both posts were closed and then deleted.

Maybe because of Royal Cruise Corporate protest?

[GeezerCouple]

4 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Maybe because of Royal Cruise Corporate protest?

 

I'm surprised it didn't show up on the Cruise News section.

 

GC

[UFMOM]

2 hours ago, jenf22 said:

My guess is the baby asked grandpa to pick her up, he picked her up to look out the window, she went to bang on the glass that wasn't there, and she slipped out of his hands.  I'm pretty sure he knew the window was open but probably didn't know she would lunge for the window not knowing there was no glass there.  Littles move quick and sometimes they do very unexpected things.  I know I almost dropped my son once or twice because he lunged for something while I was holding him.  I imagine it's the lawyer who is telling the family what "happened".  The family has to be so numb they're willing to grasp on to anything that makes it less than a tragic accident.

 

I am so saddened by this whole story.  The poor parents, the grandpa, everyone.  Their whole family dynamic is forever changed.  RIP little one.

 

 

This.   I think this explanation makes the most sense. Grandpa lifts her up to see out so explains why he is at the one open window because the others are tinted and he wants her to be able to see out. So, of course, he knew the window was open. But he thinks he has a good grip on her. She’s a little heavy, so he braces her feet on the railing to take some of the weight, still holding on tight. Child not knowing there was no glass, lunges to try to bang on it, maybe even pushing off the railing with her feet. Takes grandpa by surprise, he loses his grip and out she goes. Toddlers can be very strong and if she had sunscreen on slippery .He thought he had a good grip.  Poor choices, but I could see it happening. Of course, the lawyer is twisting this to try to show neigliance because that is what they do. Btw DD and SIL are both lawyers.  A horrible tragic accident that can happen in an instant. Praying for the family.

 

 

 

Mary Ann

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by UFMOM

[CruisinRoxy]

1 hour ago, Newleno said:

no one knows what happened, it is a strange world, nothing i mean nothing would surprise me,  but probably just an older guy that could not figure out it was not a window, the older guy chose not to hold the child, something a person with a good working brain would not do, sometimes that is what happens to your brain when you get old.  

Really?  when your brain gets old?  How do you know how old he is?  He could be in his sixties, as a grandpa,  and I can assure you, as a member of that decade, I know the difference between glass and air.