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Family's statement on toddler's cruise death

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, esm54687 said:

I think a huge majority have shown compassion to the grandfather and family..... the main bullet in this thread revolves around the immediate lawyering up and putting blame elsewhere.

 

Although reading @maya1234 posts and the lawyering up makes complete sense as a defense strategy

After such a devastating tragedy, yes one better lawyer up and deflect/put blame elsewhere otherwise Grandpa might just end up in jail, obviously making the situation even worse.  Rarely are there few things worse than death but this  Grandpa made one of those mistakes, just trying to put my place in his shoes, how could I ever face my family, friends again.  I want to vomit just by the thought.  Prayers for this family. RIP little one

Edited by Newleno

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54 minutes ago, Newleno said:

After such a devastating tragedy, yes one better lawyer up and deflect/put blame elsewhere otherwise Grandpa might just end up in jail, obviously making the situation even worse.  Rarely are there few things worse than death but this  Grandpa made one of those mistakes, just trying to put my place in his shoes, how could I ever face my family, friends again.  I want to vomit just by the thought.  Prayers for this family. RIP little one

 

-->IF<-- grandpa belongs in jail over this that is where he should be.

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My only grandchild is 15, almost 16.  Ever since she was a tiny baby being responsible for her by myself was scary.  If anything, I would become hyper-vigilant.  Having her even get injured much less dead would have been a horrible thing.  I feel so bad for the grandfather.  He will go to his grave with this on his conscience.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Newleno said:

After such a devastating tragedy, yes one better lawyer up and deflect/put blame elsewhere otherwise Grandpa might just end up in jail, obviously making the situation even worse.  

Maybe I was just raised differently, but rather than blame an innocent party, I take responsibility for my mistakes.  

Edited by NLH Arizona

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18 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

Maybe I was just raised differently, but rather than blame an innocent party, I take responsibility for my mistakes.  

 

While I agree with you, taking responsibility for manslaughter, ensuring you are in jail for the rest of your life is a little different than taking responsibility for leaving the  refrigerator door open and letting all the food go bad 

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1 minute ago, Kingkonig said:

 

While I agree with you, taking responsibility for manslaughter, ensuring you are in jail for the rest of your life is a little different than taking responsibility for leaving the  refrigerator door open and letting all the food go bad 

No different and pretty sad you would feel that way. If the grandfather actually was negligent in the situation, then he and his family need to man up and admit what happened and take responsibility.  This is what is wrong with our society; folks want to blame an innocent party so they don't have to admit to their wrong doings, go to jail, pay restitutions, etc. and then they have the nerve to sue that innocent party.  What a great way to show our children how not to take responsibility and to always point a finger at someone else for your doings and then profit off it.  BTW, it would not be manslaughter, it would probably be at most child endangerment.

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The use of the word "accident" or "fell off" to describe someone departing over the side of a cruise ship is plain wrong.

 

In the UK, we used to have "Road Traffic Accidents"on our roads - not any more.  After years of investigations by police, it turned out that most of them had a cause and were actually "On Purpose" because they could be attributed to some positve action - wrong, but positive by someone.  As a result we now have "Road Traffic Collisions".

 

Having cruised many times now, I can confirm that in my opinion it is impossible to just accidently fall from a cruise ship.  You can go overboard because of some action by yourself or someone else, like being pushed or dropped or doing something silly, or climbing over to go to do yourself serious damage or death, but never just fall for no reason. The outer decks on cruise ships always have rails or  supports at a height that makes it impossible to just go over "accidently"  I wish the media would stop saying "fell off" as though it just happens without something else causing the departure - it can't.

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34 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

No different and pretty sad you would feel that way. If the grandfather actually was negligent in the situation, then he and his family need to man up and admit what happened and take responsibility.  This is what is wrong with our society; folks want to blame an innocent party so they don't have to admit to their wrong doings, go to jail, pay restitutions, etc. and then they have the nerve to sue that innocent party.  What a great way to show our children how not to take responsibility and to always point a finger at someone else for your doings and then profit off it.  BTW, it would not be manslaughter, it would probably be at most child endangerment.

I understand your argument, I guess my point is if this truly is an incredibly negligent accident, what would be best for the family?  Would it best serve the family by having Grandpa in Jail or would it make the situation worse?  We dont know what type of charges may be filed.  Bottom line is Grandpa's negligent act resulted in a death.  Could that not be some type of manslaughter?  This grandpa needed a lawyer not to sue nor profit but to help keep him out of jail.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2019 at 7:32 PM, NLH Arizona said:

What I don't understand is while they are grieving the death of their child, the first thing they do, probably before they bury her, is to call an attorney. Just shows what our society has come to:  blame someone else and try to make money.  Sad.

 

May the little girl RIP.

 

 

well Puerto Rico has pretty strict laws about negligent manslaughter in which the grandfather could be charged for so they absolutely 5000% need a lawyer immediately...

 

not everything is about money...

Edited by CarnivalCruiser32

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2 minutes ago, Newleno said:

I understand your argument, I guess my point is if this truly is an incredibly negligent accident, what would be best for the family?  Would it best serve the family by having Grandpa in Jail or would it make the situation worse?  We dont know what type of charges may be filed.  Bottom line is Grandpa's negligent act resulted in a death.  Could that not be some type of manslaughter?  This grandpa needed a lawyer not to sue nor profit but to help keep him out of jail.

So you are saying, if someone shoots another person and it would be bad for them and their family if he goes to jail, they should lie and blame an innocent party, because it would basically be the same scenario.  If the Grandpa was negligent and that resulted in the death of the child, he should take his punishment.  Sorry, but what your way of thinking is a great way to teach children not to be responsible for their doings.

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2 minutes ago, CarnivalCruiser32 said:

well Puerto Rico has pretty strict laws about negligent manslaughter in which the grandfather could be charged for so they absolutely 5000% need a lawyer immediately...

 

not everything is about money...

I don't disagree that he needs an attorney, I disagree with the posters who say they should blame Royal Caribbean, so he doesn't have to pay any consequences, because that would be best for the family.

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On 7/9/2019 at 8:12 PM, rcclmiami said:

There are windows that open on the older ships. But all the glass is tinted blue. You can tell the difference between an open and closed window. And a 1 year old cannot climb up to the window level. SOMEONE put her either on the ledge or hand rail. It is sad that the family is trying to buy away their grief and refuse to accept responsibility. I guess RCCL has to get rid of all the balconies???

Based on the videos and pics from the other thread on this I don't think it was obvious at all that it wasn't glass actually. It was their first day on the ship and it seems like a BUNCH of the windows are always open so it kind of just looks like a pattern of some blue windows and some clear windows. I know if it was my first day on the ship and I wasn't the type of person to look this stuff up beforehand -  I wouldn't just expect that some of those would actually be open and not just clear windows.

 

The family isn't trying to buy away their grief or accept responsibility at all. They're facing actual legal charges from the Puerto Rican authorities they 1000% needed a lawyer yall are so messed up that YOU have to toss blame and accusations around at the people who are enduring the tragedy.

 

The way folks are so callous on these boards when something tragic could happen to ANYONE is just on another level...

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5 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I don't disagree that he needs an attorney, I disagree with the posters who say they should blame Royal Caribbean, so he doesn't have to pay any consequences, because that would be best for the family.

 

I don’t think all of us are saying that this is the ideal situation, but that from a legal perspective it is the right one.  Assuming he also has a criminal defense attorney, this move makes the most sense in keeping him out of jail.

 

And everyone has the right to legal representation, whether or not they are guilty 

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On 7/10/2019 at 9:37 AM, GA Dave said:

In all our trips to themeparks over the years, it amazed me how many people still put their children up on their shoulders in a crowded park.  All it takes is one bump, or even just a parent's sweaty hands, for that child's head to become a watermelon hitting the sidewalk.  And there were a few cases of people suing Disney over the years for behavior like this.  Very sad situation.

tbh this is a very bad example because we were at Disney for two weeks over the Christmas holiday and the safest place for kids was on their parents shoulders. Really rude and NASTY people in every single park were pushing with no regard for who they were pushing. Older folks? Pushed. Children? Pushed. Pregnant women? PUSHED. Parents with babies literally in their arms? PUSHED to the ground. Yeah we actually saw someone elbow a woman with a baby in her arms so hard she fell to the floor - for no reason. Anyone's kids could've fallen and gotten trampled with the way grown adults behaved in Disney World just this past Christmas. It comes down to selfishness

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6 minutes ago, CarnivalCruiser32 said:

tbh this is a very bad example because we were at Disney for two weeks over the Christmas holiday and the safest place for kids was on their parents shoulders. Really rude and NASTY people in every single park were pushing with no regard for who they were pushing. Older folks? Pushed. Children? Pushed. Pregnant women? PUSHED. Parents with babies literally in their arms? PUSHED to the ground. Yeah we actually saw someone elbow a woman with a baby in her arms so hard she fell to the floor - for no reason. Anyone's kids could've fallen and gotten trampled with the way grown adults behaved in Disney World just this past Christmas. It comes down to selfishness

Actually kids are safest in strollers at WDW over Christmas, it can be dangerous with wall to wall people (I could never do it).

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22 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I don't disagree that he needs an attorney, I disagree with the posters who say they should blame Royal Caribbean, so he doesn't have to pay any consequences, because that would be best for the family.

I don’t know if I read that anyone blamed the cruise line, and thinks a lawsuit is a good idea.

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1 hour ago, NLH Arizona said:

No different and pretty sad you would feel that way. If the grandfather actually was negligent in the situation, then he and his family need to man up and admit what happened and take responsibility.  This is what is wrong with our society; folks want to blame an innocent party so they don't have to admit to their wrong doings, go to jail, pay restitutions, etc. and then they have the nerve to sue that innocent party.  What a great way to show our children how not to take responsibility and to always point a finger at someone else for your doings and then profit off it.  BTW, it would not be manslaughter, it would probably be at most child endangerment.

No according to Puerto Rican authorities he'd be charged with negligent MANSLAUGHTER. for a tragic accident. Yes people should take responsibility when they make mistakes however this very much seems like an accident not you know...murder... so no I do not think that her grandfather should be in PRISON wasting tax payer dollars over a tragic accident that he's going to torture himself over as long as he lives anyway

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, CarnivalCruiser32 said:

Based on the videos and pics from the other thread on this I don't think it was obvious at all that it wasn't glass actually. It was their first day on the ship and it seems like a BUNCH of the windows are always open so it kind of just looks like a pattern of some blue windows and some clear windows. I know if it was my first day on the ship and I wasn't the type of person to look this stuff up beforehand -  I wouldn't just expect that some of those would actually be open and not just clear windows.

You know, I was thinking this at first too.  But after looking at the pictures I'm wondering a couple of things - 1) How could he have put her up there so perfectly that an arm or leg didn't pass through the opening revealing there was no glass?  The ledge is only a couple of inches  and 2) the windows don't look very tall.  I know she was little, but wouldn't she have been taller than the opening?  Wouldn't he have hit her head if he stood her in the window?

 

So I really think it was just a horrible accident and the lawyer is trying to convince them it wasn't totally the grandpa's fault.  It's got to be a much easier "truth" for the family to handle right now.  So so sad.

Edited by jenf22

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29 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

So you are saying, if someone shoots another person and it would be bad for them and their family if he goes to jail, they should lie and blame an innocent party, because it would basically be the same scenario.  If the Grandpa was negligent and that resulted in the death of the child, he should take his punishment.  Sorry, but what your way of thinking is a great way to teach children not to be responsible for their doings.

sorry (not sorry) but your way of thinking is what keeps people in prison for minor infractions (just an example) for extended amounts of time wasting tax payer dollars and lets other very guilty people walk free bc our prisons are too overcrowded to keep them

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Actually kids are safest in strollers at WDW over Christmas, it can be dangerous with wall to wall people (I could never do it).

Normally I'd agree but what we saw this past year....folks were on another level to put it nicely. Routinely banging into our stroller, pushing it, stepping on it -- it was a mess. Don't even get me started on the ECV one of our family members had - but essentially it seems like people really hate disabled folks...they really do

 

Anyway, we'll never be back at that time of year again. We said "HAPPIEST PLACE ON EARTH" sarcastically for the entirety of the two weeks because everyone around us looked and acted completely miserable the entire time. Very rare to encounter folks who even held a door open behind them like that is how wild it was - where were even basic manners? guess we'll never know. but we've never experienced the kind of vitriol and flat out rudeness anywhere in the world (and we're from New York City okay supposedly the rudest city in the world or whatever) as we did those two weeks at Disney World it was WILD

Edited by CarnivalCruiser32

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38 minutes ago, CarnivalCruiser32 said:

Normally I'd agree but what we saw this past year....folks were on another level to put it nicely. Routinely banging into our stroller, pushing it, stepping on it -- it was a mess. Don't even get me started on the ECV one of our family members had - but essentially it seems like people really hate disabled folks...they really do

 

Anyway, we'll never be back at that time of year again. We said "HAPPIEST PLACE ON EARTH" sarcastically for the entirety of the two weeks because everyone around us looked and acted completely miserable the entire time. Very rare to encounter folks who even held a door open behind them like that is how wild it was - where were even basic manners? guess we'll never know. but we've never experienced the kind of vitriol and flat out rudeness anywhere in the world (and we're from New York City okay supposedly the rudest city in the world or whatever) as we did those two weeks at Disney World it was WILD

Disney and the Holidays...a recipe for disaster.  

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They found an ambulance chaser who convinced them  that RCCL was at fault. What else can you expect? Nobody takes responsibility anymore. The only person responsible  is grandpa, like it or not. All of Royal's windows are tinted green. If it's totally clear and there is fresh air coming in, wouldn't that tell the average person that the window is open?

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11 hours ago, Sailor Taylor said:

Probably a lapse of judgement in a fraction of a second by an elderly man.  Paid the ultimate price.  

 

And some of the replies in this thread.  SMH.  Reminds me why I don't like this particular board.  

He hasn't paid the ultimate price....the baby paid the ultimate price.

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13 minutes ago, deliver42 said:

They found an ambulance chaser who convinced them  that RCCL was at fault. What else can you expect? Nobody takes responsibility anymore. The only person responsible  is grandpa, like it or not. All of Royal's windows are tinted green. If it's totally clear and there is fresh air coming in, wouldn't that tell the average person that the window is open?

 

 

Sadly to end the drama of a trial RC will probably pay a settlement to the family. Like my husband said RC should sue the family for the bad press they got over this.                       I can tell you right now if that happened to us once my daughter finished screaming bloody murder she would say “ ***** was you thinking putting my baby in an open window” not blaming a cruise line for an open window.  Warning signs- that is really crazy. A more appropriate sign would read “if you are too stupid to cruise stay home”

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2 hours ago, old nutter said:

The use of the word "accident" or "fell off" to describe someone departing over the side of a cruise ship is plain wrong.

 

In the UK, we used to have "Road Traffic Accidents"on our roads - not any more.  After years of investigations by police, it turned out that most of them had a cause and were actually "On Purpose" because they could be attributed to some positve action - wrong, but positive by someone.  As a result we now have "Road Traffic Collisions".

 

Having cruised many times now, I can confirm that in my opinion it is impossible to just accidently fall from a cruise ship.  You can go overboard because of some action by yourself or someone else, like being pushed or dropped or doing something silly, or climbing over to go to do yourself serious damage or death, but never just fall for no reason. The outer decks on cruise ships always have rails or  supports at a height that makes it impossible to just go over "accidently"  I wish the media would stop saying "fell off" as though it just happens without something else causing the departure - it can't.

 

 

Exactly what I said earlier about the concept of 'accidents'.  Hope you don't get flamed for it too! 🙂

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