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Family's statement on toddler's cruise death

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22 hours ago, Karysa said:

This was an avoidable tragedy and the grief and guilt must be unbearable. I think that it would be a nice gesture for RCCL to cover funeral costs, and grief counseling for the family and for any that witnessed it as a goodwill gesture without admitting guilt. It kind of sickens my stomach that a family would actually try to benefit financially from a death of a child unless there was clear negligence of another and again, in this case it just seems like her death was from a lapse of judgement from someone who loved her very much.

I agree with you 100%

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The whole issue is terrible but who put the toddler in a position to fall in the first place?  It wasn't the cruise line.

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1 minute ago, RedwingHockeyFan said:

The whole issue is terrible but who put the toddler in a position to fall in the first place?  It wasn't the cruise line.

Yeah...the family is saying....”I’m suing Royal because the child’s GrandFather is stupid”.  

 

How does that even play?

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I agree with the statement that it will probably be settled out of court, however do I agree with doing it? No. There are times things happen that are questionable and times they are not and this appears to be the later. Once the video (I really hope there is a video) of what happened is looked at I have a feeling that the whole thing may be dropped especially if it goes to court the video becomes available to the public.

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1 hour ago, phillyguy31 said:

I agree with the statement that it will probably be settled out of court, however do I agree with doing it? No. There are times things happen that are questionable and times they are not and this appears to be the later. Once the video (I really hope there is a video) of what happened is looked at I have a feeling that the whole thing may be dropped especially if it goes to court the video becomes available to the public.

I hope the video never becomes available to the public.

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2 hours ago, phillyguy31 said:

I agree with the statement that it will probably be settled out of court, however do I agree with doing it? No. There are times things happen that are questionable and times they are not and this appears to be the later. Once the video (I really hope there is a video) of what happened is looked at I have a feeling that the whole thing may be dropped especially if it goes to court the video becomes available to the public.

It seems that RC has many ships with the same glass wall configuration so if they settle wouldn't that be admitting there is a problem with something that is on a lot of ships and would cost a great deal of money to change? From nearly every picture I've seen, an adult should easily be able to tell an open window from a closed one due to the tinted glass and the handle on the sliding window being in view when the window is open. I agree the lawyer is seeking a settlement, but I don't see it happening.

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4 hours ago, phillyguy31 said:

I agree with the statement that it will probably be settled out of court, however do I agree with doing it? No. There are times things happen that are questionable and times they are not and this appears to be the later. Once the video (I really hope there is a video) of what happened is looked at I have a feeling that the whole thing may be dropped especially if it goes to court the video becomes available to the public.

When companies continue to settle out of court when they have no guilt, it just perpetuates the sue, sue attitude here in the states.  If companies would go to court, yes I know it costs a lot, and fight the suits where they are not guilty, it would eventually stop some folks from filing frivolous lawsuits.

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I believe all RCCL ships have windows that open on the pool deck. The windows are a deep green tint, so it's impossible not to see an open window.There's no tint in an open window.

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My heart goes out to the family. Just keeping wondering if maybe Grandpa had a few drinks when he got onboard and this contributed to his bad judgment. We will never know. 

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59 minutes ago, kaycee711 said:

My heart goes out to the family. Just keeping wondering if maybe Grandpa had a few drinks when he got onboard and this contributed to his bad judgment. We will never know. 

I read somewhere that alcohol was not involved.

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17 hours ago, NLH Arizona said:

When companies continue to settle out of court when they have no guilt, it just perpetuates the sue, sue attitude here in the states.  If companies would go to court, yes I know it costs a lot, and fight the suits where they are not guilty, it would eventually stop some folks from filing frivolous lawsuits.

Agree with the frivolous lawsuits, there is a fairly simple solution:

 

Anyone sueing for $$$$$$$$$ and you lose , they now have to pay 10,15,20% ( pick a percentage) to a true victims fund. You will see some of those ridiculous lawsuits not filed or at minimum a smaller amount suing for.

 

Hell add the lawyers to that mix also. With money coming out of one's own pocket they may think twice.

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There is a psychological aspect to this tragedy that is not being mentioned.  It would be a typical reaction in the brain to have such self defense mechanisms built in.  The family needs to find blame somewhere else otherwise they have to live this tragedy accepting blame.  We are outsiders looking in and cant believe the family is not blaming the person who put a 1 year old on a cruise ship railing.  It does not make sense to us.  Do we really need signs to say DONT JUMP.  DONT PUT BABIES ON THE LEDGE.  

In their horrible loss, it could be a natural reaction to act like this to assist them in this grieving process.  Something or someone else did this to us and or allowed it to happen.  Otherwise they cant live with themselves and cant look at their dad again.

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51 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

There is a psychological aspect to this tragedy that is not being mentioned.  It would be a typical reaction in the brain to have such self defense mechanisms built in.  The family needs to find blame somewhere else otherwise they have to live this tragedy accepting blame.  We are outsiders looking in and cant believe the family is not blaming the person who put a 1 year old on a cruise ship railing.  It does not make sense to us.  Do we really need signs to say DONT JUMP.  DONT PUT BABIES ON THE LEDGE.  

In their horrible loss, it could be a natural reaction to act like this to assist them in this grieving process.  Something or someone else did this to us and or allowed it to happen.  Otherwise they cant live with themselves and cant look at their dad again.

That's what I think too.  The lawyer offered them that "escape" so they jumped on it.  For it to totally be the grandfather's fault is just too much for them to handle right now.

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It is ironic that the local stations are running a public service ad for proper seat belt use of kids. It starts with "would you put your child on a window sill?  " followed by other questions about dangerous things a parent would not do........

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8 hours ago, david_sobe said:

There is a psychological aspect to this tragedy that is not being mentioned.  It would be a typical reaction in the brain to have such self defense mechanisms built in.  The family needs to find blame somewhere else otherwise they have to live this tragedy accepting blame.  We are outsiders looking in and cant believe the family is not blaming the person who put a 1 year old on a cruise ship railing.  It does not make sense to us.  Do we really need signs to say DONT JUMP.  DONT PUT BABIES ON THE LEDGE.  

In their horrible loss, it could be a natural reaction to act like this to assist them in this grieving process.  Something or someone else did this to us and or allowed it to happen.  Otherwise they cant live with themselves and cant look at their dad again.

It's called "rationalization".  It's rather hard to believe that an 18 month old asked grandpa to put her on the ledge so she could bang on the window, just like at the hockey games. And anyway, he's the adult.  If she wanted to play with matches, is that a reason to give them to her?

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What would the attorney do if a member of the youth staff put the child there?

 

IANAL, but I'd start by trying to show that the ship knowingly hired an idiot. Qualifications were just enough. There are testimonies of previous instances of irresponsible behavior. Records show that guests complained before. Records that show he missed a few training sessions he should have followed. And hopefully one mail showing that he was kept only because a decent salary was dismissed by greedy HQ so no replacement could not be found.

 

Blaming the color of the windows or the dangerous ship culture of opening up windows when it's not raining wouldn't really pass the "giggle test".

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22 hours ago, beerman2 said:

Agree with the frivolous lawsuits, there is a fairly simple solution:

 

Anyone sueing for $$$$$$$$$ and you lose , they now have to pay 10,15,20% ( pick a percentage) to a true victims fund. You will see some of those ridiculous lawsuits not filed or at minimum a smaller amount suing for.

 

Hell add the lawyers to that mix also. With money coming out of one's own pocket they may think twice.

 

It's fun to think about "punishing" those who bring frivolous lawsuits, but the impact of a proposal like this would, in reality, be to make lawsuits a method of recourse for the wealthy only, since a completely legitimate lawsuit may be lost for any number of reasons.

 

If someone of meager financial standing has a legitimate lawsuit for 500k, would he or she be willing to risk being on the hook for 50k simply for losing  the lawsuit (which, again, could happen for any number of reasons not having to do with the validity of the claim itself).

 

Often, people blow the impact of frivolous lawsuits way out of proportion. This is great for big businesses, as they want to drive public perception in their favor when it comes to these types of things (as has been brought up previously, read up on the "real" story behind the McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit, not the public perception).   I am not saying frivolous lawsuits aren't a problem at all, but it's not nearly to the level the general public seems to view it.  Furthermore, the federal rules of civil procedure already provide for sanctions against an attorney who violates "Rule 11" which requires:

 

---

By presenting to the court a pleading, written motion, or other paper—whether by signing, filing, submitting, or later advocating it—an attorney or unrepresented party certifies that to the best of the person's knowledge, information, and belief, formed after an inquiry reasonable under the circumstances:

(1) it is not being presented for any improper purpose, such as to harass, cause unnecessary delay, or needlessly increase the cost of litigation;

(2) the claims, defenses, and other legal contentions are warranted by existing law or by a nonfrivolous argument for extending, modifying, or reversing existing law or for establishing new law;

(3) the factual contentions have evidentiary support or, if specifically so identified, will likely have evidentiary support after a reasonable opportunity for further investigation or discovery; and

(4) the denials of factual contentions are warranted on the evidence or, if specifically so identified, are reasonably based on belief or a lack of information.

---

 

As far as I am aware, all local jurisdictions have some manner of the same rule.  If Royal's attorneys are so inclined, they can file a motion for sanctions against the opposing attorney.

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I would think this lawsuit would be dismissed.  Lawyer (and the family who hired him/her) is hoping for some sort of $$$$$ from Royal without this going to trial.  Going to trial is going to open up GandPa for criminal neglect charges.  I’ll assume the family doesn’t want that.

 

If there’s anger...if there’s liability....it is probably focused on the GrandFather.  Tragic?  Absolutely!  But, if this were me with my daughter left in GrandPa’s care and this happened?  Not sure how I’d respond if it was my own Father.  But, if it was my Father-In-Law?  I might want the forces involved to look at criminal charges.

 

Make no mistake, the family dynamic has permanently changed forever....and not for the better.

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20 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I would think this lawsuit would be dismissed.  Lawyer (and the family who hired him/her) is hoping for some sort of $$$$$ from Royal without this going to trial.  Going to trial is going to open up GandPa for criminal neglect charges.  I’ll assume the family doesn’t want that.

 

If there’s anger...if there’s liability....it is probably focused on the GrandFather.  Tragic?  Absolutely!  But, if this were me with my daughter left in GrandPa’s care and this happened?  Not sure how I’d respond if it was my own Father.  But, if it was my Father-In-Law?  I might want the forces involved to look at criminal charges.

 

Make no mistake, the family dynamic has permanently changed forever....and not for the better.

Sadly, when there are tragedies with children a divorce often follows.  In this case, it may be multiples.  After the initial shock wears off there's going to be so much guilt and anger.

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2 minutes ago, April42749 said:

Sadly, when there are tragedies with children a divorce often follows.  In this case, it may be multiples.  After the initial shock wears off there's going to be so much guilt and anger.

Sadly, you are correct!

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42 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I would think this lawsuit would be dismissed.  Lawyer (and the family who hired him/her) is hoping for some sort of $$$$$ from Royal without this going to trial.  Going to trial is going to open up GandPa for criminal neglect charges.  I’ll assume the family doesn’t want that.

 

If there’s anger...if there’s liability....it is probably focused on the GrandFather.  Tragic?  Absolutely!  But, if this were me with my daughter left in GrandPa’s care and this happened?  Not sure how I’d respond if it was my own Father.  But, if it was my Father-In-Law?  I might want the forces involved to look at criminal charges.

 

Make no mistake, the family dynamic has permanently changed forever....and not for the better.

 

I’ve read the Grandpa is actually Step-grandpa, and married Grandma when the little girl’s Mom was 20. So, that definitely adds another dynamic to the situation.

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1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

I would think this lawsuit would be dismissed.  Lawyer (and the family who hired him/her) is hoping for some sort of $$$$$ from Royal without this going to trial.  Going to trial is going to open up GandPa for criminal neglect charges.  I’ll assume the family doesn’t want that.

 

If there’s anger...if there’s liability....it is probably focused on the GrandFather.  Tragic?  Absolutely!  But, if this were me with my daughter left in GrandPa’s care and this happened?  Not sure how I’d respond if it was my own Father.  But, if it was my Father-In-Law?  I might want the forces involved to look at criminal charges.

 

Make no mistake, the family dynamic has permanently changed forever....and not for the better.

I agree with this. Whether it was my own father or father inlaw, I'm not sure I could ever forgive him. Guess I'd learn to live with it, but it's a dumb mistake with lifelong consequences for everyone. Very difficult for all of them. 

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38 minutes ago, kren250 said:

 

I’ve read the Grandpa is actually Step-grandpa, and married Grandma when the little girl’s Mom was 20. So, that definitely adds another dynamic to the situation.

Wow....you're right.  That adds a whole different dynamic to it.  Step GrandPa caused this?  

 

GrandPa better personally lawyer up.

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This was a terrible accident... an accident.

The railing and window are well above waist-high, like railings all over the ship.  The child did not slide or wiggle through an opening at floor level, nor was she placed there by a member of the crew, which are the only ways the cruise line is reasonably responsible. 

 

She was lifted, by an adult, onto the railing/ledge, and the grandfather failed to hang on to her.  Whether she squirmed loose or he simply let go doesn't matter.

 

I wonder if the cruise contract somewhere mentions sitting/leaning over railings? I'm sure I've heard that caution repeatedly, along with directions to use handrails on stairs, use caution on wet floors/decks, warnings about open flames/cigarettes, and other common sense reminders.

 

If it is either stated in the cruise contract, which each adult must acknowledge, or announced verbally at the muster drill, which every passenger must attend... the cruise line can prove that they provided notice to every passenger.

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Just providing a little update, I saw on the Today show this morning that the parents are going to be on the Today show on Monday.

 

Maybe they will tell us what they feel went wrong.  I don't know how this could have been the cruise line's fault.

 

All I do know is this was a terrible accident.

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