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Cruise ships finally banned from Venice


Clodia
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2 minutes ago, snaefell said:

As with the Amsterdam situation I do wonder how much is being helped by the addition of a fleet of shuttle buses adding to the traffic congestion

I think it's a bit different in Venice, in that getting rid of the huge ships causing actual damage to the fabric of the city can only be a good thing.

 

Tough luck for cruisers, but very good news for the preservation of a key UNESCO site and something we really can't just sit back and see destroyed by mass tourism of the worst kind.

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4 hours ago, brian1 said:

I agree with your last sentence.But what they're saying now is they don't want the ships diverted to the commercial port either.Perhaps they are happy with just land based tourists.It is still rammed with just 1 cruiseship of 2000 in town,as we experienced last year.

 

I thought I had read somewhere that they were going to create a new port that is miles away for cruise ships rather than the current on. If I have imagined this one forgive me ! If they are able to allow cruise ships to dock in a port within a reasonable distance and they limit the number of ships that would be a good compromise. There were on average 2 large ships in Venice last year for the 3 days that we stayed and it was busy to say the least, but not too unbearable. It was mid August though so there were also a lot of tourists from land holidays and folk like us staying before a cruise.

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Just to ask for clarification - if the ships dock away from the City will it prevent the damage that is now being caused by them or will it still affect the erosion caused ?

(Hope this makes sense I don't really understand the technicalities of it all)

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16 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

Just to ask for clarification - if the ships dock away from the City will it prevent the damage that is now being caused by them or will it still affect the erosion caused ?

(Hope this makes sense I don't really understand the technicalities of it all)

The commercial port is a few miles across the lagoon.That is being discussed as an option , not permanent,but it lacks a terminal for passengers and passport control.I think the erosion is only direct from the sail in and out down the canal.The truth is they don't know themselves yet about relocation.

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7 minutes ago, brian1 said:

The commercial port is a few miles across the lagoon.That is being discussed as an option , not permanent,but it lacks a terminal for passengers and passport control.I think the erosion is only direct from the sail in and out down the canal.The truth is they don't know themselves yet about relocation.

Yes the idea that it is all going to happen quickly is way off the mark.

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*Caveat - this is playing devil's advocate

*How many small vessels transit the grand canal on a daily basis, every day, all day, all year?  Now, how many 'large' cruise ships transit the same waterway, at a considerably slower speed, for a limited number of hours per day during a small window of time each year?  Given that thought, which is likely to cause more of a continuous/long term issue, and which is easier to vilify as being the root of all the problems?  As i say, playing devil's advocate but in my humble opinion its silly to say cruise ships are the cause of a deteriorating land mass built in a lagoon...

 

I'm not a big fan of Venice as a cruise destination as its simply too small a place for so many people, much the same as many of the islands in the Caribbean which are overrun with tourists, especially on those days when there are multiple ships in port.  I'm a definite believer though that Venice (and to a lesser extent the islands in the Caribbean) are wanting to have their cake and eat it as they're happy for the money to flow in via the industry (regardless of whether its a case of people buying pizza or coffee) but then complain about the same industry bringing in the revenue.  I'm under no illusion that the lack of ships in the grand canal will have a negative impact on the bottom line for Venice (or the cruise industry) as if anything it will generate more revenues through the use of buses, taxis, tours, etc...

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22 hours ago, Presto2 said:

Just to ask for clarification - if the ships dock away from the City will it prevent the damage that is now being caused by them or will it still affect the erosion caused ?

(Hope this makes sense I don't really understand the technicalities of it all)

The problem at the moment is the potential damage being caused by the ships passing down the Guidecca Canal, right in front of the city.  It is thought that the displacement of water from large vessels is causing damage.  If they re-route the cruise ships to an alternative location, they will not sail down the Guidecca Canal at all and so not pass by the front of the city.  Thus resolving the problem.

 

Of course, Italy being Italy and Italians being Italian, they do keep changing their minds and seem to find it difficult to make decisions.  Venice has been talking about this for quite a number of years now and have flip-flopped on a ban.  If they had made the decision when they first started talking about it, by now they could have had a new dock and terminal up and running.

 

Venice of course has both turnaround and day visits.  I guess it is possible that they may start this move by diverting the ships that are only day calls as less facilities will be needed for them.  But who knows...

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12 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

*Caveat - this is playing devil's advocate

*How many small vessels transit the grand canal on a daily basis, every day, all day, all year?  Now, how many 'large' cruise ships transit the same waterway, at a considerably slower speed, for a limited number of hours per day during a small window of time each year?  Given that thought, which is likely to cause more of a continuous/long term issue, and which is easier to vilify as being the root of all the problems?  As i say, playing devil's advocate but in my humble opinion its silly to say cruise ships are the cause of a deteriorating land mass built in a lagoon...

 

I'm not a big fan of Venice as a cruise destination as its simply too small a place for so many people, much the same as many of the islands in the Caribbean which are overrun with tourists, especially on those days when there are multiple ships in port.  I'm a definite believer though that Venice (and to a lesser extent the islands in the Caribbean) are wanting to have their cake and eat it as they're happy for the money to flow in via the industry (regardless of whether its a case of people buying pizza or coffee) but then complain about the same industry bringing in the revenue.  I'm under no illusion that the lack of ships in the grand canal will have a negative impact on the bottom line for Venice (or the cruise industry) as if anything it will generate more revenues through the use of buses, taxis, tours, etc...

it is the water displacement and pressure caused by cruise ships not wash that is the cause of the problem.

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22 minutes ago, sogne said:

it is the water displacement and pressure caused by cruise ships not wash that is the cause of the problem.

 

There was a fascinating series of programmes on last week and the week before (3 each week) on BBC4 called Venice 24/7.  It's available on iPlayer concentrating on the emergency service in Venice but it also included a lot of interesting info on Venice and some great views too!  Definitely worth a watch - they are just 30 minute progs.

I'm sure one programme said the depth of the cruise ships caused much deeper issues in terms on the water displacement and turbulence affecting the sides of the canal.  The wash from smaller vessels was nearer the surface.  They have to drain canals for maintenance - a huge problem and you could see the erosion from well below the surface. 

Apart from the problem of cruise ships though, it struck me that the volume and speed of traffic albeit smaller vessels on the likes of the Grand Canal was a problem too.  I can see that it's imperative that they do whatever is necessary to preserve the city but I think seeing those programmes that there is more to address than just cruise ships.

Edited by kruzseeka
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8 hours ago, sogne said:

it is the water displacement and pressure caused by cruise ships not wash that is the cause of the problem.

I have had this reason given on another forum, but am still sceptical, if it were true every single port in the world would be similarly effected but to a massively greater degree.

Edited by terrierjohn
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59 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I have had this reason given on another forum, but am still sceptical, if it were true every single port in the world would be similarly effected but to a massively greater degree.

Venice foundations and geological conditions  are rather unique

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1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

I have had this reason given on another forum, but am still sceptical, if it were true every single port in the world would be similarly effected but to a massively greater degree.

Have you actually spent any time in Venice, apart from the odd day? Have you studied the canal system,  compared it with other cities and considered the size of modern cruise ships?

 

I have, and it's self-evident. 

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5 hours ago, Snow Hill said:

Which is what I was eluding to in my previous posts. The infrastructure is not in place for any change to take place. If it was then cruise ships would have been forced to use them before now. 

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10 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

....and that's supposed to be a satisfactory answer?

Basically,it's built on very old wooden piles with a stone topping.Most other ports are good old reinforced concrete.

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11 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Have you actually spent any time in Venice, apart from the odd day? Have you studied the canal system,  compared it with other cities and considered the size of modern cruise ships?

 

I have, and it's self-evident. 

 

One of the programmes in the Venice 24/7 series which i mentioned earlier showed one of the canals which had been drained and gave a clear picture of the problem.  The stones were almost falling out as they were trying to repair the damage caused by the water.  I can't imagine given the building methods how the wooden piles and stones have held up the city for so long!  

 

12 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I have had this reason given on another forum, but am still sceptical, if it were true every single port in the world would be similarly effected but to a massively greater degree.

 

I don't think other ports in the world remotely mirror the situation in Venice. Where else do cruise ships approaching a port affect the foundations of centuries old buildings, which are demonstrably crumbling in parts?  How can they avoid exacerbating the problem?

 

Edited by kruzseeka
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I had a survey in from P&O in March this year with the usual stuff but also questions about ports. One of the questions was about visiting Venice however the berth was Trieste which they stated was “Venice” but is 1 hour 50 minutes away which they also mentioned.

 

Perhaps this will be the option for bigger ships, berth elsewhere,  go I n by bus and passengers then pay the taxes for entry etc as part of a tour excursion fee.

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On 8/8/2019 at 8:30 PM, brian1 said:

Residents of Venice are like residents of Mayfair,they are minted.Other ports in the world might be more grateful for the business.

 

I don’t think the ordinary people of Venice, the teachers, the nurses, the therapists, the hairdressers are actually minted as you say.  I think young people are confronted with an inability to find a home, and having to move away or commute long distances to find employment.  When they do try to move around their city they are confronted with hoarders of tourists.  All you want to do is buy a dozen eggs and it takes forever to get around people.  It does grind you down after a while.  

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4 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

I had a survey in from P&O in March this year with the usual stuff but also questions about ports. One of the questions was about visiting Venice however the berth was Trieste which they stated was “Venice” but is 1 hour 50 minutes away which they also mentioned.

 

Perhaps this will be the option for bigger ships, berth elsewhere,  go I n by bus and passengers then pay the taxes for entry etc as part of a tour excursion fee.

 

Just like Southampton is called “London”

Malaga is called “Granada”

Cadiz is called “Seville” 

Livorno is called “Florence”

Civitavecchia is called “Rome” on numerous cruise itineries.  

 

A bus journey is easy to arrange.  Cruisers will probably look to other towns around.  I for one would be interested in Padua.   

 

I am pleased about the changes for the sake of Venice.  I hope that they come soon.  

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10 minutes ago, ollienbertsmum said:

 

I don’t think the ordinary people of Venice, the teachers, the nurses, the therapists, the hairdressers are actually minted as you say.  I think young people are confronted with an inability to find a home, and having to move away or commute long distances to find employment.  When they do try to move around their city they are confronted with hoarders of tourists.  All you want to do is buy a dozen eggs and it takes forever to get around people.  It does grind you down after a while.  

Exactly.  The 'normal' working people have been forced out of the city as it's taken over by tourist accommodation, prices have rocketed beyond the means of ordinary people, and normal life has become impossible.

 

Hardly any surprise they're trying to damp it down - particularly as cruise passengers spend so little.

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