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Tips to the Wait staff

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41 minutes ago, ldubs said:

And then, the last night when everyone was supposed to bring their envelopes,  a third of the chairs in the main dining room would be empty!   

Really?  Wow 😞 

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40 minutes ago, clo said:

Really?  Wow 😞 

 

Well, I was exaggerating saying it was a third, but there were lots of empty chairs by folks who wanted to avoid passing out the envelopes.   Others who remember those days can confirm.   

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12 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Well, I was exaggerating saying it was a third, but there were lots of empty chairs by folks who wanted to avoid passing out the envelopes.   Others who remember those days can confirm.   

So folk have objected to the whole tipping thing forever and a day.

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23 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

So folk have objected to the whole tipping thing forever and a day.

 

Well, I guess you would call them objections.  Likely because the people were cheap or just of low character and saw a way to game the system.   Doubtful that too very many were hiding because of some moral objection about tipping. 

 

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9 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Well, I was exaggerating saying it was a third, but there were lots of empty chairs by folks who wanted to avoid passing out the envelopes.   Others who remember those days can confirm.   

Oh, I don't doubt you.  But wow.

 

 

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8 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Well, I guess you would call them objections.  Likely because the people were cheap or just of low character and saw a way to game the system.   Doubtful that too very many were hiding because of some moral objection about tipping. 

 

I agree.  You may not like the system - and I don't - but you're penalizing the worker if you don't tip.

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21 minutes ago, clo said:

I agree.  You may not like the system - and I don't - but you're penalizing the worker if you don't tip.

 

Exactly. Denying an employee what they have earned because you don't approve of the system in place is reprehensible. If you have issues with the system, either take it up with the people who put that system in place, or find another activity. Don't penalize the people who have no say in policy decision making. There is no excuse for such self-centered behavior, no matter what half-baked rationalization they conjure up to justify their actions.

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21 minutes ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Exactly. Denying an employee what they have earned because you don't approve of the system in place is reprehensible. If you have issues with the system, either take it up with the people who put that system in place, or find another activity. Don't penalize the people who have no say in policy decision making. There is no excuse for such self-centered behavior, no matter what half-baked rationalization they conjure up to justify their actions.

I wonder if anyone will dare to disagree with you.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, clo said:

I wonder if anyone will dare to disagree with you.

 

LOL! I am sure a whole bunch from two countries will.

 

Coming from a lower income family, in order to put myself through college I used to wait tables. I cannot over emphasize the number of people who would leave small or no tips for our busy group of college age servers. Based on the cost of the items they would select for their meals, it was crystal clear they could afford even the average tips. But, so many did not leave them. To this day I find the idea of taking advantage of someone who is on a lower level of the economic scale to be selfish and mean spirited. And if people can afford to take a cruise, they are absolutely on a much higher economic scale than the people who serve them on their cruise. It is unfathomable to me that people of higher means would be so uncaring towards people of lesser means when the main thing those "lesser" people are doing is helping them enjoy their expensive vacations.

 

I am very passionate about my opinions, earned through experience. Clearly, at least one poster so far takes an opposing view with their sarcastic comment immediately above this post. And seeing where they are from, I can only say "It figures". 🙄 

Edited by SantaFeFan

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A lot of people are passionate about their opinions, it is just that most of them are not as rude and condescending as you or resorts to plain nastiness if they disagree with your opinion.

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4 minutes ago, SantaFeFan said:

it was crystal clear they could afford even the average tips. But, so many did not leave them.

I used to be on a food site and there were those that were spending close to or more than $1000 for dinner for two and wanted to weasel out of the appropriate tip.  Generally the people on that site would figuratively rip him a new one.  If you can't afford the tip....  And I understand that people who formerly worked in the biz are the best tippers of all.  Been there, done that.

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1 minute ago, yorkshirephil said:

A lot of people are passionate about their opinions, it is just that most of them are not as rude and condescending as you or resorts to plain nastiness if they disagree with your opinion.

Please, who were you replying to?

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6 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

A lot of people are passionate about their opinions, it is just that most of them are not as rude and condescending as you or resorts to plain nastiness if they disagree with your opinion.

 

If you stiff the hardworking crew in order to save your money for your own benefit, you deserve rudeness and condescension. If you show generosity and give them what is expected, then you are not the target and have no cause to be offended. 

 

That you took offense tells me which of the two types of people you are. 

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15 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

SantaFeFan

I guess I wasn't reading that closely.

 

But to the point, do you agree that the employees shouldn't be severely punished due to the actions of their employers?  Not whether the policy should be changed or not.  I think/hope we're all in agreement on that one.

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1 hour ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Exactly. Denying an employee what they have earned because you don't approve of the system in place is reprehensible. If you have issues with the system, either take it up with the people who put that system in place, or find another activity. Don't penalize the people who have no say in policy decision making. There is no excuse for such self-centered behavior, no matter what half-baked rationalization they conjure up to justify their actions.

 

59 minutes ago, clo said:

I wonder if anyone will dare to disagree with you.

Oh, there will be some who disagree.  After all, any excuse is good enough to justify (in their minds) how they tip.

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1 minute ago, clo said:

I guess I wasn't reading that closely.

 

But to the point, do you agree that the employees shouldn't be severely punished due to the actions of their employers?  Not whether the policy should be changed or not.  I think/hope we're all in agreement on that one.

I am in agreement that the employees shouldn't be punished, this is one of the reasons that more UK and European cruise companies are now raising the cruise price to include tips. A lot of people have been calling for this for years. If a cruiser then want's to tip extra that is their choice. I have always prepaid my tips when cruising with any line that allows or left the tips on my account. I don't usually get involved in tipping threads as it is a bit like politics and religion.

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19 minutes ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

If you stiff the hardworking crew in order to save your money for your own benefit, you deserve rudeness and condescension. If you show generosity and give them what is expected, then you are not the target and have no cause to be offended. 

 

That you took offense tells me which of the two types of people you are. 

I decide who I tip. Not some unwritten rule that a cruise ship has.

 

I tipped generously to my two waiters because they made meals times a joy.

 

If they hadn't they would have got nothing

 

I said this before and got shouted down. If cruise staff rely on tips and its expected they get them them the cruise lines are underpayimg them deliberately and its almost slave labour.

 

There let me be the guest to disagree with santafe fan. Bring it on.

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5 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

If cruise staff rely on tips and its expected they get them them the cruise lines are underpayimg them deliberately and its almost slave labour.

And I agree with you.  But how does not tipping make it better?  Do you communicate with the cruise line's upper management about this?  Do you boycott those lines that don't pay a decent wage?  I'm a US citizen and travel internationally a good bit.  I always check to see what tipping practices are in the various countries.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

I decide who I tip. Not some unwritten rule that a cruise ship has.

 

I tipped generously to my two waiters because they made meals times a joy.

 

If they hadn't they would have got nothing

 

I said this before and got shouted down. If cruise staff rely on tips and its expected they get them them the cruise lines are underpayimg them deliberately and its almost slave labour.

 

There let me be the guest to disagree with santafe fan. Bring it on.

 

A system is in place, good or bad, and you are fully aware of it. The crew on most ships depend on passengers following this system, a system they themselves did not put into place. Nevertheless, their income depends on passengers accepting a system, and I emphasize this AGAIN, that is not their choice.

 

Anyone who ignores and defies the system the crew is dependent upon does it for their owe sake, and not for the crew's sake - who, may I remind you again, have no say on how that system was put into place. You can rationalize, justify, excuse your behavior all you want. But be clear that you are not tipping for their sake. You are tipping only the few you deem deserving to satisfy your own ego, all the while making believe to yourself that you are a "good guy". And punishing other deserving crew to satisfy your ego along the way. So very generous of you. 🙄

Edited by sloopsailor

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35 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

. If cruise staff rely on tips and its expected they get them them the cruise lines are underpayimg them deliberately and its almost slave labour.

 

13 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

and I emphasize AGAIN - this system is not their choice.

I'm going to take exception to these statements.  First of all, it is hardly slave labour. Whether they get a weekly/monthly fixed salary plus auto gratuities, or a higher fixed wage equal to the former ( in the case of lines that rolled the autograts into the cruise price), the crew have agreed to the terms and conditions of their employment. They are not forced to sign their contracts.  They are not forced to renew or sign new contracts at the end of their existing one. If the pay and working conditions were as  bad as you infer, the cruise lines would not have so many crew members who have stayed with them for  years and years.

 

So how about not imposing Your personal value system, which comes from a place of privilege, on the rest of the world? If you have strong "ethical" objections, or are just cheap and stingy, take yourself and your wallet to a line whose tipping policy aligns with your own. But if you insist on sailing on ships who charge autograts, then pay the #@&*/ autograts.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, sloopsailor said:

 

A system is in place, good or bad, and you are fully aware of it. The crew on most ships depend on passengers following this system, a system they themselves did not put into place. Nevertheless, their income depends on passengers accepting a system, and I emphasize this AGAIN, that is not their choice.

 

Anyone who ignores and defies the system the crew is dependent upon does it for their owe sake, and not for the crew's sake - who, may I remind you again, have no say on how that system was put into place. You can rationalize, justify, excuse your behavior all you want. But be clear that you are not tipping for their sake. You are tipping only the few you deem deserving to satisfy your own ego, all the while making believe to yourself that you are a "good guy". And punishing other deserving crew to satisfy your ego along the way. So very generous of you. 🙄

Woah some very personal digs there my friend.

 

I always believe an argument is won when someone resorts to insults.

 

But let me clarify something here. 

 

I pay upfront for all tips. Its included in the price I pay.

 

The tips I gave my waiters was extra.

 

My ego is intact.

Edited by DarrenM

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