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Picking a cruise by environmental concerns


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7 hours ago, retireandgo said:

 I know that Celebrity uses sulphur-free fuel while in port

There is really no "sulfur free fuel", there is low sulfur fuel, and all ships are required to use it (or an exhaust gas scrubber which replicates the sulfur emissions of low sulfur fuel) when in and ECA (Emissions Control Area), like the North American (extends 200 miles from the US and Canadian coast), North Sea, Baltic or Arctic zones, and when in every EU port.

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2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

There is really no "sulfur free fuel", there is low sulfur fuel, and all ships are required to use it (or an exhaust gas scrubber which replicates the sulfur emissions of low sulfur fuel) when in and ECA (Emissions Control Area), like the North American (extends 200 miles from the US and Canadian coast), North Sea, Baltic or Arctic zones, and when in every EU port.

Thank you for the clarification.

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Any fossil-fueled cruise ship is going to have a negative impact on the environment it enters - particularly if it bringing thousands of day trippers into a small, previously remote community. 

 

Sure, it is possible to “take steps” -  but the concept of “environmentally friendly cruising” is sort of like the notion of chaste prostitutes . 

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https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/overtourism-cruise-industry/index.html

 

Another article piling on cruising, but the reality is its all the growing middle class fueled by social media wanting to go everywhere else that the WIERD people have gone ( Western-Industrialized-Educated-Rich-Democratic ).

 

The reality it is money, social media/internet, and the efficient Point-Point flying of aircraft that are the bases for Tourism, the ships just fuel the end destinations.    Look at Venice for example all BnB and hosting, all $ in the bank of local residents or opportunistic business folks.   

 

Griffiths is keen to place the cruise ship boom in context, saying that in increasingly crowded cities like Venice, Dubrovnik or Barcelona, ships only account for 5% of visitors. "So even if we were to take cruising away from those destinations, it really wouldn't address a lot of the overtourism problems that we see,"

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2 hours ago, chipmaster said:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/overtourism-cruise-industry/index.html

 

Another article piling on cruising, but the reality is its all the growing middle class fueled by social media wanting to go everywhere else that the WIERD people have gone ( Western-Industrialized-Educated-Rich-Democratic ).

 

The reality it is money, social media/internet, and the efficient Point-Point flying of aircraft that are the bases for Tourism, the ships just fuel the end destinations.    Look at Venice for example all BnB and hosting, all $ in the bank of local residents or opportunistic business folks.   

 

Griffiths is keen to place the cruise ship boom in context, saying that in increasingly crowded cities like Venice, Dubrovnik or Barcelona, ships only account for 5% of visitors. "So even if we were to take cruising away from those destinations, it really wouldn't address a lot of the overtourism problems that we see,"

Fairly well-balanced article.  Having spent several days in Barcelona in the spring, it is extremely crowded but to a good extent it is because graduating "seniors" from high schools across Europe go on a trip to destinations all over Europe.  I've heard Italian, German, French from groups of students in Barcelona and also in the National Gallery in London in the spring.  So cruise passengers make up a small part of the tourism, but as the author pointed out, "over the course of 2017, Carnival Corporation, a cruise operator that encompasses 10 cruise line brands including Cunard, Holland America and P&O, emitted nearly 10 times more sulphur oxide around European coastlines than all 260 million European cars."  This is what people associate with cruise lines, but even then, cruise ships make up just 5% of all ships on the sea.

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On 8/16/2019 at 7:46 PM, RocketMan275 said:

Personally, I couldn't care less.  JMHO, but I believe most environmentalism is just a scam.

Well, if we listen to the environmentalists, we need not worry about a damn thing.

Climate Change .... errrr ..... Global Warming ....... Polar Vortex will have all humanity killed off in 12 years.

Or are we down to 11 now?

Plan accordingly.

 

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35 minutes ago, LA_CA_GAL said:

Well, if we listen to the environmentalists, we need not worry about a damn thing.

Climate Change .... errrr ..... Global Warming ....... Polar Vortex will have all humanity killed off in 12 years.

Or are we down to 11 now?

Plan accordingly.

 

We intend to do our best.  We've two cruises booked and we're flying first class to the ports.

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If I were to go on a cruise based on environmental concerns, it would be down a lazy river in a hollowed out deadfall log that I carved myself.  That isn't happening.  At home and on cruises we recycle, reuse, reduce as much as we can and hope others will as well.

 

Smooth Sailing!  🙂🙂🙂

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On 8/15/2019 at 3:25 PM, retireandgo said:

I love cruising but am concerned about the environmental impact.  Venice, Italy has halted cruise ships and Londoners are protesting cruise ships on the Thames River. We folks who love cruising should be in the forefront of getting our favorite cruise lines to begin to do right. I have Elite status on Celebrity and while I thought that they, and Royal Caribbean, were doing well environmentally, I came across the report card, below, that dismayed me!  They must begin to use cleaner fuel, for one.

 

Cruise Ship Pollution Is Causing Serious Health And Environmental Problems


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsmoor/2019/04/26/cruise-ship-pollution-is-causing-serious-health-and-environmental-problems/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsmoor/2019/04/26/cruise-ship-pollution-is-causing-serious-health-and-environmental-problems/amp/

 

Also note this information.

Cruise-Ship Report Card 2019.pdf 1.54 MB · 11 downloads

 

 

Shocker that the head of that tiny activist group gives Disney flying colors but fails everyone else when a leader is a known Disney Nut. Lol 

 

That group is a bunch of frauds.

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Disney’s propulsion system is far from the most environmentally friendly.

 

Carnival’s solstice class ships (and many others) use ABB Azipods which are the most efficient and environmentally friendly systems around. I believe they are rated the 2nd most environmentally friendly ships on earth. RCL is first. Disney is 4th. 

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9 hours ago, Icon901 said:

Disney’s propulsion system is far from the most environmentally friendly.

 

Carnival’s solstice class ships (and many others) use ABB Azipods which are the most efficient and environmentally friendly systems around. I believe they are rated the 2nd most environmentally friendly ships on earth. RCL is first. Disney is 4th. 

The only reason Disney got a good grade from FOE was because of the "transparency" grade, where Disney was the only line to provide hard data to FOE.

 

Azipods are only about 10% more efficient than older shafted propeller systems, and there are modifications that can be made to those shafted systems that will increase their efficiency to nearly that of the azipods.  The main draw of azipods to the cruise lines is the reduced capital cost between pods and shafted propulsion.

 

Where are you getting your data on which ships are the "most environmentally friendly"?

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16 hours ago, Icon901 said:

Disney’s propulsion system is far from the most environmentally friendly.

 

Carnival’s solstice class ships (and many others) use ABB Azipods which are the most efficient and environmentally friendly systems around. I believe they are rated the 2nd most environmentally friendly ships on earth. RCL is first. Disney is 4th. 

With Carnival and subsidiaries having recent fines for infractions, I am also interested to know the source of the data and more importantly the criteria used.

 

There are thousands of ships plying the oceans, lakes, etc with many now having LNG and  Norway increasingly embarking on hybrid technology. I also recall reading of the Germans building a ship powered by SOLAR.

 

For the above reasons, I am having difficulty believing RCI & Carnival have the most environmentally friendly ships on earth.

Edited by Heidi13
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Though not a major cruise line, Hurtigruten from Norway is setting new standards.  Their newest ship, the MS Roald Amundsen, is a hybrid electric powered expedition ship.  Known mainly for their ships going up the coast of Norway, they also traverse Antarctica.    The Amundsen holds 530 passengers. (https://www.hurtigruten.com/our-ships/ms-roald-amundsen/). See all of the ships at  https://www.hurtigruten.com.

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23 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

For the above reasons, I am having difficulty believing RCI & Carnival have the most environmentally friendly ships on earth.

 

I believe he meant to type Celebrity, since Carnival doesn't have a Solstice Class.  

 

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3 hours ago, retireandgo said:

Though not a major cruise line, Hurtigruten from Norway is setting new standards.  Their newest ship, the MS Roald Amundsen, is a hybrid electric powered expedition ship.  Known mainly for their ships going up the coast of Norway, they also traverse Antarctica.    The Amundsen holds 530 passengers. (https://www.hurtigruten.com/our-ships/ms-roald-amundsen/). See all of the ships at  https://www.hurtigruten.com.

Affirmative, that is one of the new tonnage I read about.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/26/2019 at 1:22 PM, LA_CA_GAL said:

Well, if we listen to the environmentalists, we need not worry about a damn thing.

Climate Change .... errrr ..... Global Warming ....... Polar Vortex will have all humanity killed off in 12 years.

Or are we down to 11 now?

Plan accordingly.

 

 

Aren't we already dead according to them?????

 

There was 2012.  And then oil was supposed to run out before 2000.  And food sometime in the late 80s.

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On 8/15/2019 at 9:25 PM, retireandgo said:

I love cruising but am concerned about the environmental impact.  Venice, Italy has halted cruise ships and Londoners are protesting cruise ships on the Thames River. We folks who love cruising should be in the forefront of getting our favorite cruise lines to begin to do right.

Also note this information.

Cruise-Ship Report Card 2019.pdf 1.54 MB · 12 downloads

 

Just going back to the op's original post, this is the first I have heard.  Also most cruise ships depart from Southampton in the UK, a long way (by UK standards) from London town. 

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On 8/16/2019 at 1:25 AM, SRF said:

 

Hmm, where does the electricity come from???????

 

And if solar, what is the environmental impact of making solar cells??????

 

Shhhh.  You are not supposed to be rational when this stuff comes up.


Edit:  I see SRF beat me to it.  For those who didn't 'get' it, that thing behind the charging station is a diesel-fueled generator.  Spewing polution.  Just like the big generators that produce the electricity in the sockets in your house.

Diesel generator attached to EV charging station.

Edited by Toofarfromthesea
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20 minutes ago, davemorton said:

Also most cruise ships depart from Southampton in the UK, a long way (by UK standards) from London town.

Most are too big, but there are still many ocean cruise ships that depart from the "London" cruise terminal, which is actually out of town in Tilbury.  Additionally, and probably more importantly, there was a proposed cruise port planned for Greenwich, but current protests and demands for emissions changes have delayed it. 

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3 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

Most are too big, but there are still many ocean cruise ships that depart from the "London" cruise terminal, which is actually out of town in Tilbury.  Additionally, and probably more importantly, there was a proposed cruise port planned for Greenwich, but current protests and demands for emissions changes have delayed it. 

I realised about the different terminals (although have never sailed from Tilbury) but had not heard about the protests against cruise ships in the UK. Being a small island, I am slightly suprised. 

Edit: Found it, not big news over here, and frankly, if this is all they think they have to worry about pollution wise in London, then frankly they are mad. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46209399  A ferry leaves Dover to France every 30 mins 24/7, how does that compare to a cruise ship pollution wise. 

Edited by davemorton
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14 hours ago, davemorton said:

if this is all they think they have to worry about pollution wise in London, then frankly they are mad.

Huh?  What are you talking about?  You've heard the phrase "choose your battles", right?   Protesting something doesn't mean that's all you care about - sometimes it means that's the thing you believe you're most likely to get input on (or have an effect on).  And they're right - they'll have more impact and chance of affecting something before it's built and begun than after it's been in place for ages. 

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On 9/21/2019 at 9:54 AM, davemorton said:

Just going back to the op's original post, this is the first I have heard.  Also most cruise ships depart from Southampton in the UK, a long way (by UK standards) from London town. 

Harwich in Essex, about 1 hour directly east of London, is also a cruise port.  We took a transatlantic in November a few years ago on Celebrity.   Though Southampton gets more cruise traffic.

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/17/2019 at 11:05 AM, retireandgo said:

Thank you so much for the information chengkp75. ..........Your noting of the fact that while cruise lines get a lot of flack from the public, they account for only 5% of all ship traffic is certainly noteworthy.........

That's the problem. Someone reads an article and then runs with it as if it's completely true. They don't take the time to look at the entire picture before jumping on the bandwagon.

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On 8/15/2019 at 10:34 PM, mom says said:

 OP, if you're that dismayed  then  by all means stop cruising and find another type of travel that you enjoy. Of course, that means not flying, too. Or using a non electric car. But I'm sure you can find something.


 It’s been my observation that the climate change warriors seem to be less interested in decreasing carbon footprint themselves than they are in forcing their will upon others.  I find it hilarious when some Hollywood starlet criticizes my once a year cruise as opposed to the private jet they fly every day!

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11 hours ago, Jana60 said:


 It’s been my observation that the climate change warriors seem to be less interested in decreasing carbon footprint themselves than they are in forcing their will upon others.  I find it hilarious when some Hollywood starlet criticizes my once a year cruise as opposed to the private jet they fly every day!

It's called "virtue signalling".  

Boomer.

Edited by RocketMan275
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