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raindropsalways

Proof as to why non-disabled are booking cabins for disabled

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5 minutes ago, raindropsalways said:

SeaBurd - Why on earth would you assume that those of us on small mobility scooters do not need the other aspects of an accessible cabin? Unfortunately, it seems that the many fail to understand that most of us on mobility scooters are there due to serious medical issues, not necessarily a problem with the legs or inability to walk.

 

As I read your post, it appears you must have missed the first thing I said; "If mobility is the issue and the other accommodations in an accessible cabin are not needed,..."   

 

Obviously, if someone has medical issues that require the accommodations found only in the HC cabins that is what they need, no matter what the size of their mobility device.

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Yes, I also wear glasses, less apt to run over anyone with my scooter if I see what is in front of me. And just to make things complete, I'll try to remember to put in my hearing aids. Oh, I have to get batteries for the hearing aids. And no, I am not joking. Regardless, all the broken down parts are the original.

 

Betty

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5 minutes ago, raindropsalways said:

Yes, I also wear glasses, less apt to run over anyone with my scooter if I see what is in front of me. And just to make things complete, I'll try to remember to put in my hearing aids. Oh, I have to get batteries for the hearing aids. And no, I am not joking. Regardless, all the broken down parts are the original.

 

Betty

Yep all my bits are as manufactured just some are really wearing out, most particularly the spine. Some of the bits of my spine even have new bits growing on them.

 

though I guess the lenses in my eyes aren’t the ones I came with, they were replaced due to cataracts (caused by medications according to the eye specialists).

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I book a standard cabin when I have people with me than can assist but if it’s a longer cruise just me and Mrs Gut I want an accessible cabin.

 

Maybe the lines need to add grab bars in more bathrooms

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Unfortunately I fall into the 'No accessible cabin. No sailing' group.  Fortunately for me I can book cruises as soon as they are released for sale. Although it did seem a bit surreal booking our two 2020 cruises in November 2018.

 

I don't think there is just 1 solution to the availability of accessible cabin for disabled people. I think you need multiple deterrents to stop people booking accessible cabins they don't need.

But at the end of the day unless cruise lines actively police who books accessible cabin there will always be people who abuse accessible cabins.  When I say " actively police who books accessible cabin" I mean get an officer on the ship to see if the people in the cabin are disabled or not. Ask the cabin steward how often they have seen the scooter moved. Things like that.     

 

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I am very familiar with ‘The Mighty’ and they are all about trying to make handicap, invisible handicap, and almost handicap take control of their lives - what part any person can. Not about taking anything away from any other deserving person. I also can only cruise in a wheelchair and put off getting a parking sticker since I no longer drive.  Maybe if there was a voluntary program that would be added to frequent travelers- like the known travel number the airlines give. But for cruisers across the industry that would assure you the right HC room. 

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I believe you may have a misunderstood the parking permit. The placard (Badge) is what a person hangs in the window regardless who is driving. It is what a handicap person uses to make his or her trip easier by using a space designated for the handicap. I have the HC plates on my van and keep my placard in my purse so when I am with someone else, the vehicle I'm in can park in the designated parking spaces. Just something a tad bit easier for us.

 

To my knowledge, all cruise lines offer some form of recognition based on the number of days a person has cruised on their line.

 

 

Bloodgem – You are 100% right. There is not any basic HC cabin that will take care of everyone. However, at lease one cruise line has addressed some aspects. They have equipment that can be put in cabins for the death and blind. Also, more and more cruise lines are creating a designated area for mobility devices outside of their cabins. However the extent of services may vary.

 

It seems like most cruisers have favorite lines for what ever reason. Thus it would be logical that the disabled would start selecting lines that best service their specific needs. Of course, those individuals might have to give up their special diner, cocktails, entertainment or something else. In other words, determine which is more important, their life/health or that special dinner, extra cocktail or show. I have not noticed anyone openly selecting a cruise line that best provides for their specific medical needs. Regardless, I'm sure most of us have determined that some cruises seem to make things more pleasant for us. I definitely prefer one cruise line for their accommodations, however it happens to be a bit more expensive than my budget normally allows. Fortunately, I can occasionally find a deal, thus enjoy one of their cruises in comfort.

.

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On 9/4/2019 at 12:57 AM, Bloodgem said:

Unfortunately I fall into the 'No accessible cabin. No sailing' group.  Fortunately for me I can book cruises as soon as they are released for sale. Although it did seem a bit surreal booking our two 2020 cruises in November 2018.

 

I don't think there is just 1 solution to the availability of accessible cabin for disabled people. I think you need multiple deterrents to stop people booking accessible cabins they don't need.

But at the end of the day unless cruise lines actively police who books accessible cabin there will always be people who abuse accessible cabins.  When I say " actively police who books accessible cabin" I mean get an officer on the ship to see if the people in the cabin are disabled or not. Ask the cabin steward how often they have seen the scooter moved. Things like that.     

 

Dear Bloodgem,

Perhaps I misunderstood your message, or the point you are wanting to make. I am aware that people like to judge and determine what others are entitled to. I would never subject, or allow myself to being "policed" by a ship's officer to see if my limitations meet their, or YOUR expectations of what may be needed to "qualify" for an accessible cabin. I do not use a handicap placard or handicap parking because I believe there is always someone who may need it more. I am not restricted to a chair, and I don't use a scooter. However without handrails and other accessible features I would not be able to cruise. I have endured snobbery from others who feel that I or my DW don't qualify, or deserve assistance, or accessible cabins. Apparently relying on canes instead of scooters causes others less informed to complain that we are not worthy in their estimation. I shouldn't have to explain to complete strangers (fellow passengers, or ship's officers) that my DW has had to endure three separate reconstructive surgeries just to be able to walk very limited distances. Or that I have bounced back from two separate brain surgeries in addition to  knee replacements and six additional major joint surgeries. 

I once was confronted by a woman in a scooter that  was going to "tell me off" for having an accessible cabin when I wasn't in a wheelchair. I didn't point out that she wasn't in a wheelchair, but I was tempted to drop trousers and explain that when you have that many miles of scars you get to book any damn cabin you like.

I believe I may have at least a partial solution for those having difficulty finding accommodations that will meet their needs and it doesn't involve letters from Doctor's or the ADA, or being approved by the hotel director on-board. If traveling is really important to you, then put in the time and effort to find and book the cabin you need before some inconsiderate able bodied person does. If the people complaining on here were putting the same effort into finding and securing what they need, the problem would be reduce greatly. I understand that there are many things beyond my understanding, or control. However you won't find me complaining that someone else should create rules, or laws to satisfy my wants. Do the best you can, put in the effort yourself and then learn to accept the results. I would like to wish smooth sailings to all of my  fellow travelers, whether they be disabled, or fit as a fiddle. 

Jim 

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2 hours ago, okpaddy said:

Dear Bloodgem,

Perhaps I misunderstood your message, or the point you are wanting to make. I am aware that people like to judge and determine what others are entitled to. I would never subject, or allow myself to being "policed" by a ship's officer to see if my limitations meet their, or YOUR expectations of what may be needed to "qualify" for an accessible cabin. I do not use a handicap placard or handicap parking because I believe there is always someone who may need it more. I am not restricted to a chair, and I don't use a scooter. However without handrails and other accessible features I would not be able to cruise. I have endured snobbery from others who feel that I or my DW don't qualify, or deserve assistance, or accessible cabins. Apparently relying on canes instead of scooters causes others less informed to complain that we are not worthy in their estimation. I shouldn't have to explain to complete strangers (fellow passengers, or ship's officers) that my DW has had to endure three separate reconstructive surgeries just to be able to walk very limited distances. Or that I have bounced back from two separate brain surgeries in addition to  knee replacements and six additional major joint surgeries. 

I once was confronted by a woman in a scooter that  was going to "tell me off" for having an accessible cabin when I wasn't in a wheelchair. I didn't point out that she wasn't in a wheelchair, but I was tempted to drop trousers and explain that when you have that many miles of scars you get to book any damn cabin you like.

I believe I may have at least a partial solution for those having difficulty finding accommodations that will meet their needs and it doesn't involve letters from Doctor's or the ADA, or being approved by the hotel director on-board. If traveling is really important to you, then put in the time and effort to find and book the cabin you need before some inconsiderate able bodied person does. If the people complaining on here were putting the same effort into finding and securing what they need, the problem would be reduce greatly. I understand that there are many things beyond my understanding, or control. However you won't find me complaining that someone else should create rules, or laws to satisfy my wants. Do the best you can, put in the effort yourself and then learn to accept the results. I would like to wish smooth sailings to all of my  fellow travelers, whether they be disabled, or fit as a fiddle. 

Jim 

Hi Jim,

Thank for your comments but you did miss the points I was making. 

 

Several poster were commenting how they are struggling to book accessible cabins. I posted that I book my accessible cabin as soon as the cruises are released for sale. 

On 9/4/2019 at 6:57 AM, Bloodgem said:

Unfortunately I fall into the 'No accessible cabin. No sailing' group.  Fortunately for me I can book cruises as soon as they are released for sale. Although it did seem a bit surreal booking our two 2020 cruises in November 2018.

 

raindropsalways and lenquixote66 want people who book accessible cabin to provide proof that they are disabled and need an accessible cabin. What I was trying to say was that unless cruise lines actively check if people do need that cabin, people will still abuse disabled cabins.  Whether that is checking the proof is genuine or checking the person in the cabin. 

 

At no point in this thread have I commented on who should or should not book accessible cabins, other posters have. 

So please do not judge me 

3 hours ago, okpaddy said:

 I would never subject, or allow myself to being "policed" by a ship's officer to see if my limitations meet their, or YOUR expectations of what may be needed to "qualify" for an accessible cabin. 

 

 

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Jim,

 

I believe you may truly be handicap, but since it is a “nasty” word you will not admit it. I suggested the placard because it is only issued to people that cannot walk specific distance without possible harm or death. Handrails are a form or aids. I can also walk, I just lack the ability to breath.... with or without hand rails, thus I use a scooter and yes, I have HC plates on my van and my placard in my purse. And I do walk without places or distances I feel safe doing. Being stuck with a mobile device is no fun.

 

To my knowledge, none of us have any desire to prevent someone who truly needs the accommodations in a HC cabin. Regardless, there are many who abuse the system, thus those of us that need it are deprived. Personally, I do not want to know why a person may need the accommodations, however we need some was to prevent those who do not need said accommodations from depriving those who do require the accommodations. Preferably a legal non-intrusive way. Could you be so kind to share some constructive ideas.

 

Thanks,

Betty

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2 hours ago, raindropsalways said:

 Personally, I do not want to know why a person may need the accommodations, however we need some was to prevent those who do not need said accommodations from depriving those who do require the accommodations.  

We do not need a way to prevent anyone from using any cabin.  There are many limited number of specific cabins on every ship.  Someone will always get the one you want before you if you don't plan far enough in advance.

Book Early and Purchase Cancel for any Reason Insurance.  

And again-I agree with Jim-it is no one's business to know specifics about anyone's handicap.

 

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On 9/4/2019 at 1:57 AM, Bloodgem said:

 

But at the end of the day unless cruise lines actively police who books accessible cabin there will always be people who abuse accessible cabins.  When I say " actively police who books accessible cabin" I mean get an officer on the ship to see if the people in the cabin are disabled or not. Ask the cabin steward how often they have seen the scooter moved. Things like that.     

 

What an unbelievable suggestion that you would have someone not medically qualified in any way determine if someone is disabled.  And having a cabin steward spy on and report the personal activities of a customer is unimaginable!

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Thank you Betty and Bloodgem,

It was never my intention to offend either of you, or the other wonderful posters here. I was trying to express that I believe the responsibility lies with us. If traveling is important, and you need certain accommodations then make certain that you are vigilant about checking when cruises are announced and vacancies are available to be booked. It can be difficult to plan eighteen to twenty four months in advance, but it is better to secure the type of cabin you require than to allow someone else to deny your trip because they were more proactive. I don't hesitate to make a booking a year, or two in advance but I don't make final payment until absolutely necessary which allows me the freedom to alter or cancel plans. I honestly believe that relying on other peoples judgement to determine whether someone is worthy, or deserving of a cabin category is fraught with room for even more abuse or poor decision making. I honestly don't feel it should be required for me to carry fifty plus years worth of medical records to convince a ships officer that I, or my DW require handrails, no raised doorsteps etc... I'm not confident that a ships hotel director, or other officers are competent to determine what is in my best interest for safe traveling accommodations. 

I certainly can agree that the current limited amount of accessible cabins reflects the lack of interest by the cruise industry in making their ships more inclusive. That's why I am preaching vigilance and checking availability early and often. Please believe me when I say that I would gladly prefer to travel in a regular cabin and have the luxury of last minute prices and plenty of availability and broader choices of sailings if only that was an option. Best wishes to all and hopefully plenty of opportunities for future smooth sailings.

Jim 

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Yes, I am fully aware of booking early. Ruth and I traveled together over ten years and 40 cruises and yes we booked many cruises when the bookings opened or occasionally we would find a deal we could not resist. Fortunately, if the price dropped before final payment and we brought it to our TA's attention, she would get the better price for us. If we booked a special deal we might end up in a standard cabin, which did happen a few times.. If you think it is tight with a scooter in a standard cabin, try two scooters in a standard cabin. Ruth passed away two days before we were to start one of our five cruise marathons. Yes, we created our own b-2-b on multiple cruises.

 

My up-coming cruises, Cathy had already booked and I joined her. Fortunately, she was able to switch to an HC cabin on one cruise, but the other one we will be in a standard cabin. Cathy and I have cruised together and she is aware of the challenges. However, for the cruise we booked together, it is not until 2021 and we booked it some months ago through my TA. And yes, we have an HC cabin. Also, when a sale popped up, we got the discount.

 

And yes, I agree it would be great if there were more accessible cabins on the ships. However, I believe it is on a percentage basis as demanded by ADA. However, if the able bodied did not book them, it would give a few more of us an opportunity to take more cruises in comfort. So in stead of fighting among ourselves, lets do what we can to eliminate the problem.

 

I believe there have been some statistics regarding the increased numbers of disabled, get the ADA to increase the required number of accessible cabins. May not solve the problem, but sure might help. The space and special accommodations cost the cruise lines money. They will not voluntarily change.

 

Let's all have a wonderful cruise,

Betty

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2 hours ago, gadaboutgal said:

What an unbelievable suggestion that you would have someone not medically qualified in any way determine if someone is disabled.  And having a cabin steward spy on and report the personal activities of a customer is unimaginable!

Sorry but you have taken my words out off context. You do not need to be medically train to see if a guest uses a wheelchair; scooter; walker or walking stick.

 

You seem to have missed the part in my original comment where I wrote 'Things like that.'     

On 9/4/2019 at 6:57 AM, Bloodgem said:

I don't think there is just 1 solution to the availability of accessible cabin for disabled people. I think you need multiple deterrents to stop people booking accessible cabins they don't need.

But at the end of the day unless cruise lines actively police who books accessible cabin there will always be people who abuse accessible cabins.  When I say " actively police who books accessible cabin" I mean get an officer on the ship to see if the people in the cabin are disabled or not. Ask the cabin steward how often they have seen the scooter moved. Things like that. 

Meaning that the ships crew could check if the passenger has filled out a special needs form.

 

I'm sorry if posters have taken my comment out of context or if I have not listed all the way the cruise line could validate if non disable people are in a accessible cabin. It was never my intention to cause offence.

 

 

 

 

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As the population ages more people will find themselves with physical challenges and need some of the accommodations provided in a fully accessible cabin.  While ADA regulations prevent asking for details about one's disability, it seems to me there could be a checklist asking if each of the accessible elements are necessary.  Necessary meaning the person would not be able to function without it.  Example: a person who is unable to stand and step into a shower or tub with a transfer bench would require the roll in shower.  Then, with ships having different levels of accessible cabins, a person could be assigned to the level that would accommodate his/her needs.

 

Holland America and Carnival (at least) have addressed this issue, in part, by providing 3 different levels of accessible cabins.  The definitions that follow are from Carnival.  HAL has the same designations.

 

  1. Fully Accessible Cabins (FAC): These staterooms are designed for use by guests with highly limited mobility, who require the regular use of a wheelchair, scooter or other similar assistive devices. Fully Accessible Cabins contain accessible elements including turning space, accessible routes throughout the stateroom and an accessible bathroom. Additionally, the bathrooms contain grab bars and shower seats.
     
  2. Fully Accessible Cabins - Single Side Approach (FAC-SSA): These staterooms are designed for use by guests with highly limited or no mobility, who require the regular use of a wheelchair, scooter or other similar assistive devices. Fully Accessible Cabins - Single Side Approach are a type of FAC that provide an accessible route and clear floor space on only one side of the bed, in staterooms configured to provide only one bed. In a stateroom configured to provide two beds, the clear floor space will be between the beds, with one side of each bed getting an accessible route. Additionally, these staterooms have an accessible bathroom that contains grab bars and shower seats.
     
  3. Ambulatory Accessible Cabins (AAC): These staterooms are designed for use by guests with mobility limitations, who do not require the regular use of a wheelchair, scooter, or other similar assistive devices. For example, Ambulatory Accessible Cabins are ideal for guests who only use an assistive device (like a cane or a walker) for traversing longer distances, and who may benefit from certain accessible features like grab bars, to assist with balance.

As someone whose husband is an above the knee right leg amputee, we have no option other than a fully accessible cabin.  In my opinion, most people who may not need them are currently booking fully accessible cabins because there is no other option available for them.  I believe they would be more than willing to be accommodated in anther cabin that suits their needs, freeing the FAC for someone who truly needs it.

 

Hopefully all cruise lines will do more to address the needs of this growing segment of the cruising population.

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It is fine to say book early but

 

1. When you both still work it isn’t always easy

 

2. I have tried to book some cruises on the day they are released and couldn’t get an accessible cabin.

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6 hours ago, SeaBurd said:

As the population ages more people will find themselves with physical challenges and need some of the accommodations provided in a fully accessible cabin.  While ADA regulations prevent asking for details about one's disability, it seems to me there could be a checklist asking if each of the accessible elements are necessary.  Necessary meaning the person would not be able to function without it.  Example: a person who is unable to stand and step into a shower or tub with a transfer bench would require the roll in shower.  Then, with ships having different levels of accessible cabins, a person could be assigned to the level that would accommodate his/her needs.

 

Holland America and Carnival (at least) have addressed this issue, in part, by providing 3 different levels of accessible cabins.  The definitions that follow are from Carnival.  HAL has the same designations.

 

  1. Fully Accessible Cabins (FAC): These staterooms are designed for use by guests with highly limited mobility, who require the regular use of a wheelchair, scooter or other similar assistive devices. Fully Accessible Cabins contain accessible elements including turning space, accessible routes throughout the stateroom and an accessible bathroom. Additionally, the bathrooms contain grab bars and shower seats.
     
  2. Fully Accessible Cabins - Single Side Approach (FAC-SSA): These staterooms are designed for use by guests with highly limited or no mobility, who require the regular use of a wheelchair, scooter or other similar assistive devices. Fully Accessible Cabins - Single Side Approach are a type of FAC that provide an accessible route and clear floor space on only one side of the bed, in staterooms configured to provide only one bed. In a stateroom configured to provide two beds, the clear floor space will be between the beds, with one side of each bed getting an accessible route. Additionally, these staterooms have an accessible bathroom that contains grab bars and shower seats.
     
  3. Ambulatory Accessible Cabins (AAC): These staterooms are designed for use by guests with mobility limitations, who do not require the regular use of a wheelchair, scooter, or other similar assistive devices. For example, Ambulatory Accessible Cabins are ideal for guests who only use an assistive device (like a cane or a walker) for traversing longer distances, and who may benefit from certain accessible features like grab bars, to assist with balance.

As someone whose husband is an above the knee right leg amputee, we have no option other than a fully accessible cabin.  In my opinion, most people who may not need them are currently booking fully accessible cabins because there is no other option available for them.  I believe they would be more than willing to be accommodated in anther cabin that suits their needs, freeing the FAC for someone who truly needs it.

 

Hopefully all cruise lines will do more to address the needs of this growing segment of the cruising population.

Thank you Seaburd for the informative updated cabin information. I haven't sailed Carnival, or Holland for at least a decade. I have read about different categories of accessible cabins and appreciate the opportunity to choose an appropriate level of cabin based on individual needs. I would like to think that many regular rooms could be modified to be more accessible without a complete retro fit. 

I am constantly amazed by all of the helpful and knowledgeable people who share their ideas and experiences here on CC.

If anything I have posted has in any way offended anyone, please accept my sincere apologies.  I would gladly sail with each and everyone of you and continue to learn from your collective wisdom.

Best wishes, Jim

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