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Why do you hate HAL so much?

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24 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

I'm sorry. I've tried the LCS when it was empty. On the Rotterdam, it was an open plan and there was too much traffic in the corridor.

 

In any case, there's no substitute for the library with its easy chairs and tables to set a drink. The tables with jigsaw puzzles, magazines and map books.  The hot drinks from the coffee bar. Chess anyone?  The experience is different from taking refuge in an empty room.

 

IMHO, it makes a difference if you are on a long voyage. You might not notice the difference on a weekend junket.

 

If I wanted an economy experience, I would sail on a Carnival ship!

 

 

On several of the ships such as Nordam,  the "Library" was also right along the corridor with as much traffic as next to Lincoln Center.

 

Now it appears that you want the Library to be a area to set in the chairs and read (actually very similar to what I saw on cruises over the past few years, but from what I would say for some, also sleeping in those comfy chairs). Though most of the chess tables were more used for people getting coffee than for playing chess. From what I seen the redesigned Crows Nest (the place that people say here as have been destroyed when they relocated the coffee bar up there along with some Exc functions.) does that function fairly nicely.

 

That is a somewhat different use then a true library where one find and checks out books, which might not necessarily have any reading space at all

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20 minutes ago, npcl said:

How do you know that it is not? 1 Persons statement that lots of people are checking books in and out.

 

How many people carry electronic e-book readers compared to 10 or even 5 years ago?

 

What is the sales volume of actual physical books compared to 5-10 years ago?

 

.... On my recent HAL cruises I have noticed far more people below 60, including families with young children then I have ever seen on HAL cruises before

 

The Explorer's Lounge is both a library of physical books, as well as a quiet lounge. That is its strength. In fact, many passengers comfortably read e-books there, enjoy drinks, play chess etc. 

 

As I pointed out to cowmilker, hiding in an empty room or hall is not the same experience.

 

Why should we want more family groups with noisy children? Carnival has the family-oriented ships. Cruise with them. They're better equipped for whiz bang. Are you cruising with the right brand?


 

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16 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

The Explorer's Lounge is both a library of physical books, as well as a quiet lounge. That is its strength. In fact, many passengers comfortably read e-books there, enjoy drinks, play chess etc. 

 

As I pointed out to cowmilker, hiding in an empty room or hall is not the same experience.

 

Why should we want more family groups with noisy children? Carnival has the family-oriented ships. Cruise with them. They're better equipped for whiz bang. Are you cruising with the right brand?


 

The question comes if you are? Corporate is clearly trying to attract younger passengers. It appears they are succeeding. They are doing that while still offering  a ship size smaller than the other mainstream line and some unique features.

 

i cruise several different brands. 4 during the last 12 months. 

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My first cruise was in 1962.  10 days to Europe.  There was no entertainment, no drinks, no dancing.  Very crowded.  No excursions, food was mediocre at best.  Management would not listen and make improvements, but the price was right;  zero.  Did I mention it was a troop ship.

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The least I can say, this post makes some ... waves ! 😱

Good to read anyway !

 

Holacanada will be on the Noordam in more or less 40 days !!! -

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I have not read all the responses, and so I apologize if mine is repetitive.  I think that people's attitudes and expectations have changed, and there is a general disgruntlement that may have something to do with the complaints.  Life is filled with change, especially as one ages.  I happen to think aging is a privilege, but many do not.  Like others, I have enjoyed every cruise taken on four different lines.  I think of all the crew who are pampering us while spending a lengthy time away from their families.  I think how privileged I am to be able to cruise.  No cruise is perfect, and there may be a few changes that we dislike, but I hope people do not focus on what is negative as that is unhealthy.  It is more healthy always to look for the positive, and to be grateful.  And, try to avoid the word "hate".

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30 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

As I pointed out to cowmilker, hiding in an empty room or hall is not the same experience.

 



I wasn't hiding. I simply was reading. And it was fine.

This might be something you don't want to do, but I'm not you.  I prefer my Kindle to an actual book. Honestly, I find myself tapping the edge of a book's page to turn it, and literally long-pressing a word to get the definition, and then feeling stupid when I remember it's a real book.

And for me, personally, a library is a waste of space.  I get lost in books and my surroundings don't really matter as long as there is nothing loud around me and as long as I know I'm not disturbing anyone.

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On 8/31/2019 at 1:04 PM, Mosaic said:

I disagree with much of the above.  It is NOT the changes it is the CUTBACKS. HAL is no longer a "premium" cruise line. Never was a luxury cruise line.

Which cruise line according to you ? What turns you on personally Mosaic ?  🤔 

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4 minutes ago, cowmilker said:



I wasn't hiding. I simply was reading. And it was fine.

This might be something you don't want to do, but I'm not you.  I prefer my Kindle to an actual book. Honestly, I find myself tapping the edge of a book's page to turn it, and literally long-pressing a word to get the definition, and then feeling stupid when I remember it's a real book.

And for me, personally, a library is a waste of space.  I get lost in books and my surroundings don't really matter as long as there is nothing loud around me and as long as I know I'm not disturbing anyone.

I carry a library of about 4000 ebooks on my phone using 4 different ebook reader apps. Will go through a book every day or two on a cruise.

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 This thread is becoming an example of why this forum can give the impression that there is

”hate” of the cruise line.  When someone states an item they liked and are disappointed to lose (or see a decline in the quality of it), someone comes along to try to “correct” them, often in a reply that is pretty long-winded.  Such people  seem to come here to feel astute.

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3 minutes ago, holacanada said:

Which cruise line according to you ? What turns you on personally Mosaic ?  🤔 

I'll take that question on. Princess, with their CD and 6 assistants, and Celebrity, with their CD and 3-4 assistants, do a lot better job IMHO than HAL with their CD and 1 assistant providing a variety of fun things to do on sea days as well as in the evening and at very comparable prices.

 

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12 minutes ago, npcl said:

I carry a library of about 4000 ebooks on my phone using 4 different ebook reader apps. Will go through a book every day or two on a cruise.

 

It seems that you and I have the same affliction and probably need an intervention. Add to that my library of audio books. . . and it's really bad.  But at least they store easily.

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4 hours ago, cowmilker said:

Right now, I'm trying to figure out what you're talking about, frankly.

I thought the question was clear, but apparently I need to try again: 
What public area(s) of the ship did you find that didn't have 'music' playing from overhead speakers during the day? I, too, like quiet places in which to read, but have a difficult time finding them on the ships, since they all seem to have something playing through the PA system. 

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12 minutes ago, RuthC said:

I thought the question was clear, but apparently I need to try again: 
What public area(s) of the ship did you find that didn't have 'music' playing from overhead speakers during the day? I, too, like quiet places in which to read, but have a difficult time finding them on the ships, since they all seem to have something playing through the PA system. 

 

And my point was that I noticed the music so little that I can barely even remember it, and wouldn't have if you hadn't mentioned it.   I can't answer your question because I didn't notice it and don't remember it.

Maybe it's all the years that I read while siblings did stuff around me (when I was young) or the years when my child played while I read (when I was a bit older). It just doesn't bother me if I'm not in anyone's way or if they aren't addressing me specifically.

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I cannot imagine how constant moaning about cutbacks and blaming Orlando whatever his last name is for just about everything up to and including world hunger impacts one's anticipation of a cruise or indeed one's opinion of it at the end.  It has to have a negative impact on the entire experience.

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6 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

As far as internet service in your HAL cabin, do you get a strong signal with plenty of bandwidth to download those books? In our past experiences, we have always had to go to the Explorers Lounge or up to the Crows Nest to get a good signal and usually after 9 pm.

We leave on a cruise in two weeks.  We've already downloaded all the reading material. It's a part of preparing to cruise.  You pack your suitcase.  You pack your e-reader.

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On 8/31/2019 at 9:41 AM, RocketMan275 said:

I think there is a large entitlement attitude among some 4*&5* cruisers.  They are so defensive about their perks and privileges.  They see any change as a threat to their entitlements.  For example, Club Orange, one of the most consistent criticism is that CO getting priority access to tenders, then comes the complaint, "I'm 4* and I've taken 40 HAL cruises to get priority tendering and now these people can get the  same perk by spending $$$. It's not fair, I tell you and it's all Orlando's fault." Or, "Orlando doesn't know how to run a cruise line.  He needs to check with us 4* before he makes any more changes."

My wife and I are four star, and of course the CO perks kind of irk us. If HA undermines their loyalty program by diluting the benefits too much, changing the rules and making some more easily obtainable, they run the risk of alienating the very demo that’s given them the most business. And that could also de-incentivize repeat cruisers.

 

I don’t think CO is the end of the world, though, especially since it doesn’t strike me in any way as a good value. 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, npcl said:

The question comes if you are? Corporate is clearly trying to attract younger passengers. It appears they are succeeding. They are doing that while still offering  a ship size smaller than the other mainstream line and some unique features.

 

 

 

At this point, some of us are questioning Carnival Corp and Hal's business decisions.

 

From the customer's POV, change is positive when it improves value to the customer. There is innovation in reducing wait time, improving quality and choice.

 

On the other hand, there is change that improves the company's profitability. For example, bigger ships are being launched because bigger ships are apparently cheaper to run. Economies of scale.

 

The problem is that a big ship experience is different from a  mid-size ship experience. So, change in this respect has a negative impact on passengers who favour mid-size classic ships. And the new ships have smaller cabins and fewer quiet areas. 

 

Why is Carnival/HAL launching bigger and bigger ships for the HAL brand? The latest HAL ships are 100k gross tonnes and carry 2,650 passengers. Meanwhile, CCL's smaller  ships (Carnival Legend/Pride/Spirit) are 88k gross tonnes and only carry 2,124 passengers.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Legend


Do the maths on passenger/tonne. In addition to Carnival's problems with the law, this muddle throws doubt on Carnival management's vision for the future.


 

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7 hours ago, npcl said:

 

 

On my recent HAL cruises I have noticed far more people below 60, including families with young children then I have ever seen on HAL cruises before

 

You're said that HAL is succeeding in attracting more family groups. What is the advantage of that? 

 

Presumably, there is more revenue per cabin as you cram more people in. But, there is also additional cost in terms of food and entertainment. Also, more fatigue for the room stewards.

 

Also, more incidents like this ...

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5402443/Family-removed-Carnival-Legend-cruise-deny-violence.html


The greatest cost may be the loss of revenue from repeat mature cruisers. You could fill the ship by cutting prices. But, this ultimately begins the downward spiral of the brand. Smart marketeers of premium brands try to avoid this at all cost.

 

Does Carnival need another economy brand? Does the world need another economy brand?

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7 hours ago, npcl said:

Now it appears that you want the Library to be a area to set in the chairs and read (actually very similar to what I saw on cruises over the past few years, but from what I would say for some, also sleeping in those comfy chairs). Though most of the chess tables were more used for people getting coffee than for playing chess. From what I seen the redesigned Crows Nest (the place that people say here as have been destroyed when they relocated the coffee bar up there along with some Exc functions.) does that function fairly nicely.

 

That is a somewhat different use then a true library where one find and checks out books, which might not necessarily have any reading space at all

 

The strength of the Explorer's Lounge is that it can serve several functions. A quiet area with comfy chairs. It also has hundreds of books, Most of much I haven't read.

 

I've spend time on sea days exploring the shelves. Lo and behold. It has travel books for the current itinerary. Worth the hours spent on them. Oh! There's a bird guide for bird watchers!

 

Wunderbar! And there's opportunities to chat with fellow enthusiasts.

 

So, the kind of cruise I like is different from the type of cruise you find acceptable. I'm willing to pay more for the classic HAL cruise. While I'm not willing to pay anything for the economy cruise.

 

Edited by HappyInVan

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12 hours ago, npcl said:

I carry a library of about 4000 ebooks on my phone using 4 different ebook reader apps. Will go through a book every day or two on a cruise.

 

Same here with my Kobo eReader.  My entire library goes with me on every trip.  I'm 68 and my granddaughter likes "real" books!  It's rare that I open a physical book these days.

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13 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Which cruise line according to you ? What turns you on personally Mosaic ?  🤔 

I appreciate very much the quality of the ship and staff.  Poor food and poor or no entertainment is a major turn off.  The MDR is often just bad---crowded, mediocre service with poor food.  If I could get "Outback" quality food in the main dinning room that would be great.  BBKing is a good direction.  The club orange room for Neptune guests is just a nice diner. Why does HAL "like" the concept of not having much to do during sea days?  Simple example.  Why take away the steel drums on Caribbean cruises, lol. That is sad. Lectures on the ship were often huge hits with folks.  I am looking for a new cruise line so I do not have answers yet.  Oceania and Celebrity retreat are on my list.

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One person's "complaining" is another person's suggestion for improvement.

 

Some people send their complaints/concerns directly to HAL executives in the hope that the complaints/concerns might actually be addressed by management. Others seem to prefer to post their observations and  opinions on sites like cruise critic. Some do both.  Some "hope" that just maybe some of  the cruise line execs might actually review sites like cruise critic as well as passengers comments and have serious discussions to fix or improve the areas that consistently impact the most passengers.

 

  A perfect example that seems to draw the ire of a lot of HAL customers is their website....this has been beat to death but for some very strange reason the problems go on and on and on.  How many direct bookings or completely lost bookings this has cost HAL is unknown but it really is unimaginable that a seattle based company can't seem to hire competent web designers to make booking with HAL a piece of cake rather than a pain in the butt.

 

My "complaints/concerns" may well not mean anything to others.....but keep in mind that your complaints may not mean much to me as I don't care about or utilize that feature.

 

My pet peeves are the elimination of real libraries as well as the cut back on proper promenade walking decks equipped with teak deck chairs.  I also dislike music being played in most every lounge non stop making it difficult to find a quiet place to sit and read or just enjoy a bit of silence.  I also don't care for being bombarded with all the sale promotion literature and announcements but I have learned to try and just ignore it.

 

If you prefer e readers and/or non stop music and don't ever use or care about a good prom deck then good for you.  We all have our opinions on what is important to us.

 

It does seem to me that almost all HAL pax do agree that overall the service provided by the vast majority of the crew is exceptional.

 

As we all likely know sometimes you can read a review of a cruise that you were on that is full of complaints and you ask yourself, "gee were they on the same cruise as me?"   

 

While I certainly do not HATE HAL I see nothing wrong with attempting to let HAL know what I most enjoy as well as things that I do not enjoy.
 

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8 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

You're said that HAL is succeeding in attracting more family groups. What is the advantage of that? 

 

Presumably, there is more revenue per cabin as you cram more people in. But, there is also additional cost in terms of food and entertainment. Also, more fatigue for the room stewards.

 

Also, more incidents like this ...

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5402443/Family-removed-Carnival-Legend-cruise-deny-violence.html


The greatest cost may be the loss of revenue from repeat mature cruisers. You could fill the ship by cutting prices. But, this ultimately begins the downward spiral of the brand. Smart marketeers of premium brands try to avoid this at all cost.

 

Does Carnival need another economy brand? Does the world need another economy brand?

 

Why does HAL want more family groups? You answered your own question immediately -- revenue. Family groups are probably more likely to purchase photos (how often do you get the whole family together?) and specialty dining (to celebrate the occasion). Among other things...

 

As to additional food costs, many people seem not to know (or acknowledge, as the numbers have been posted many times) how small a portion of the daily expenses the food costs are per person on a cruise.

 

No, the profit model on cruise lines is based on online expenditures, not fares. And it's also been suggested by industry insiders that "repeat mature cruisers" are less profitable than new cruisers to the line. They know to look for lower fares. They purchase fewer things onboard (spa services, photos, souvenirs in the shops, shorex through the ship). So why would the cruise line WANT to retain them? 

 

Does Carnival need another economy brand -- I can't profess to know that. But at the moment HAL is not doing anything so different from her close competitors Princess and Celebrity, which I wouldn't call 'economy' brands either. From many reports of those who've sailed a number of different lines, HAL's food holds up well with the other two, and each of the three has individual strengths -- IMO, HAL'S is mainly in her itineraries but management has also invested quite a bit in new types of musical experiences. 

 

 

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