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Do you Like the direction..

Right or wrong direction for Holland America Line?  

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  1. 1. Do you like the direction Orlando Ashford seems to be leading Holland America Line?



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One cruise I feel HAL has missed out on is a R/T  Alaska cruise from the port of San Diego,Ca  .Princess has been successful doing this type of cruise from San Pedro Ca .We do that cruise with HAL in a heart beat 

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14 hours ago, awhcruiser said:

Why didn't you try to go 30 mins early instead of scrapping that class of ship? 

 

Probably because you shouldn’t have to show up 30 minutes early just to watch a band play.  

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1 hour ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

The millennium class ships are great, but they are starting to get older now, too, so probably will be phased out in time.  Celebrity is headed in a different direction, with its Solstice class and now Edge.

 

Millennium Class is going through a major refurbishment right now. They’re redesigning the interior to the modern/contemporary design of Edge. The new design is beautiful.  I just returned from Millennium and it was awesome. 

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37 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

That is a easy answer . By not having aft elevators they save money  when building the ship . 

 

Ha ha...of course.  And also that they get everybody congregated in the mid-ship "profit centers" of the ship.

But sometimes these geniuses don't weigh out how many people are turned off by their tricks.  Why risk annoying anybody when you build a beautiful new cruise ship?!    🤷‍♀️

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2 hours ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

The millennium class ships are great, but they are starting to get older now, too, so probably will be phased out in time.  Celebrity is headed in a different direction, with its Solstice class and now Edge.

 

 I'll never understand why they didn't put aft elevators in those Solstice ships.  As I congregated with so many others to board the mid-ship elevators, I felt as if I were back working in a high-rise office building.  That's not a feeling one wants to have when cruising!  lol

 

That's one of the lines/classes I had identified also. I am on a BTB on the Constellation next fall (2020) after she goes through her "Edgification" earlier in the year.

 

My assumption is that if they are willing to spend the money on her to bring her up to the latest plan/decor, they must be planning to keep her a while longer...

 

Edited by cruisemom42

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1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

That's one of the lines/classes I had identified also. I am on a BTB on the Constellation next fall (2020) after she goes through her "Edgification" earlier in the year.

 

My assumption is that if they are willing to spend the money on her to bring her up to the latest plan/decor, they must be planning to keep her a while longer...

 

We sailed Celebrity  over 40 cruises(Elite +)  .Today ,we find that when comparing Celebrity prices to HAL  prices on the same or very similar cruises ,Celebrity's prices a much higher .Even if Celebrity were sailing from the west coast ports of San Pedro  & San Diego  ,we would now sail with HAL  because of better value  .  At one time we found Celebrity competitive ;but ,not any longer .In fact their prices do approach the luxury lines prices  now

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23 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

We sailed Celebrity  over 40 cruises(Elite +)  .Today ,we find that when comparing Celebrity prices to HAL  prices on the same or very similar cruises ,Celebrity's prices a much higher .Even if Celebrity were sailing from the west coast ports of San Pedro  & San Diego  ,we would now sail with HAL  because of better value  .  At one time we found Celebrity competitive ;but ,not any longer .In fact their prices do approach the luxury lines prices  now

 

That's why we're planning to sail more on HAL than X now although we're Elite on X and will just gain only our second star on HAL in November.  X has really raised their prices beyond what I think is appropriate for the product that they offer. 

 

In fact, HAL may find themselves positioned well to gain some business at the expense of X simply due to the price to value ratio that currently exists.

Edited by ricka47

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8 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

We sailed Celebrity  over 40 cruises(Elite +)  .Today ,we find that when comparing Celebrity prices to HAL  prices on the same or very similar cruises ,Celebrity's prices a much higher .Even if Celebrity were sailing from the west coast ports of San Pedro  & San Diego  ,we would now sail with HAL  because of better value  .  At one time we found Celebrity competitive ;but ,not any longer .In fact their prices do approach the luxury lines prices  now

 

The cost question has a different dimension for me, being a solo traveler and also looking at mostly ex-US cruises. 

 

Interestingly I can often find cruises on luxury or near-luxury lines for not much more than a similar cruise on a mass-market line. Why? Because some luxury lines offer a much lower solo supplement (think 25% versus 100%), and occasionally no supplement at all....

 

While the odd anomaly will crop up (usually more on last-minute cruises with less demand), I still think it's a little misleading to think that Celebrity cruise prices approach those of luxury lines. 

 

For example, I just looked at a September 2020 Canada/New England cruise for comparison -- both cruises departing Boston on the same day. For a 12-day cruise on Celebrity Summit, the "brochure" price is $3098 (discounted price $1508), while for an 11-day cruise on Seabourn Quest, the "brochure" price is $12,248 (discounted price $6811).  And leaving one day earlier on a Montreal to Manhattan itinerary for 12-days, Viking Star's cost is listed at $6399 (no brochure price given).

 

Even at twice the price (for a solo) on Celebrity, it is still a much better deal.

 

(Oh and HAL Zuiderdam has a 10-day itinerary leaving a couple days earlier -- it is two days shorter but has an interesting itinerary; "brochure" cost is $1599 (discounted price $1366).  If you look at the per diem cost, Celebrity is still cheaper than HAL on a ship rated 5 vs 4.5 according to this particular travel website....)

 

 

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5 minutes ago, ricka47 said:

 

That's why we're planning to sail more on HAL than X now although we're Elite on X and will just gain our second star on HAL in November.  X has really raised their prices beyond what I think is appropriate for the product that they offer. 

 

In fact, HAL may find themselves positioned well to gain some business at the expense of X simply due to the price to value ratio that currently exists.

 

Which just proves once again, for all those who say they would pay more to see their favorite cruise line stop cutting costs.....  it ain't necessarily borne out by reality.

 

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8 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Which just proves once again, for all those who say they would pay more to see their favorite cruise line stop cutting costs.....  it ain't necessarily borne out by reality.

 

As a single cruiser  you need to check different lines to get a fair deal . By the same token ,we know factually that we now get a better  per day price with HAL vs Celebrity  . Even when we did a 10 night sailing on Koningsdam this past March into a  10 night  Southern Caribbean ,HALS price per day was much better than Xs price point  .We had a great time on that cruise .The food  & all  services were excellent .

 

 If we were still flying  ,the only time I would look at Celebrity now ,would be on a trans Atlantic cruise purely for pricing . However ,I still prefer HALs itinerary ,like  Nieuw Statendam next April ending in Amsterdam  .For itinerary purposes ,that sailing is interesting  &  very reasonably priced  .

 

 We have been through Europe twice in the past & now at 80 it is just too stressful to fly with  delayed flights ,cancelled flights ,non stop flights , & sudden gate changes  ,along with very crowded planes & handling luggage  in the airport .Even though we can get through security lines with a wheelchair quickly ,it is still a stressful time all around .

 

 We wish you successful cruising  . I personally  now would not consider cruising if I was a single cruiser ;but .we do have a large family close by  & that would be my priority 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

  

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19 hours ago, sail7seas said:

 

I  seem to think  Mickey did  not purchase  HAL but rather  it was his father that did.

 

 

 

 

image.png

 

Micky became CEO of Carnival Corporation in 1979.  Carnival Corporation purchased Holland America Line in 1989.  Mr. Ted Arison passed away in 1999.

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FYI

After some people did not like the service you can now upgrade to club Orange

They are rolling it out in October on all ships.

 

CNW Group

Popular premium amenities program adds new benefits, including stateroom upgrades when Club Orange is purchased

Holland America Line's popular new Club Orange premium amenities program will be available on all ships in the fleet by Oct. 2019. Currently on nine ships, Club Orange gives guests an additional level of luxury and service with priority access, exclusive amenities and special events.

Club Orange is available to purchase for a limited number of non-suite staterooms on each sailing, and features stateroom upgrades within the category booked and a special "Captain's Choice" onboard event. Guests in Neptune and Pinnacle suites will also receive all of the benefits of Club Orange at no additional charge (excluding the stateroom upgrade and onboard event). All Club Orange guests are privy to extra privileges -- from a private dining venue to priority services and a dedicated concierge hotline.

"Club Orange is fast becoming a favorite on board with its exclusive services like priority access and private dining, so we're pleased to expand this program fleet wide so even more guests can take advantage of the benefits," said Orlando Ashford, president of Holland America Line. "Club Orange is an exceptional value and our guests appreciate how much the extra touches and services enhance their cruise experience. And with the newly added stateroom upgrade and special event for guests purchasing the program, the value is even greater."

New Amenities for Club OrangeGuests who purchase Club Orange will receive an upgrade within the booked category to the best available stateroom. The upgrade will be based on availability at the time of Club Orange purchase. Also new to the program is a "Captain's Choice" event that takes place during the cruise, also exclusively for guests who purchase Club Orange. The event could be one of several planned special experiences that may include a behind the scenes hotel department tour, exclusive pre-opening shopping access, private coffee chat with Music Walk musicians and cast members and more.

Priority AccessAmenities that come with the exclusive Club Orange program include priority check-in and disembarkation, priority tender service and priority alternative restaurant reservations made on board. Club Orange guests also have a dedicated line at Guest Services and the shore excursion desk, as well as a dedicated concierge hotline on board for dining reservations, tour assistance, general questions and support.

Private Dining For most of the fleet, a dedicated section of the dining room will be designated for use by Club Orange guests for breakfast and dinner. On Koningsdam and Nieuw Statendam, a separate Club Orange restaurant is open every day for breakfast and dinner. The venue serves the same menu featured in Pinnacle Grill for breakfast and the dining room for dinner. Menus on all ships will feature additional daily dishes exclusive to Club Orange.

Additional benefits to Club Orange members include an enhanced in-stateroom à la carte breakfast dining menu with complimentary premium selections such as steak and eggs or smoked salmon Benedict, a welcome glass of sparkling wine at dinner on embarkation day, premium bathrobe for use in stateroom (and available for purchase and monogramming), and an exclusive Club Orange tote bag.

The cost of Club Orange is $35 per person per day on Nieuw Statendam and Koningsdam and $25 per person per day on all others ships. The first and second guest in the same stateroom are both required to purchase the program. There is no additional charge for third and fourth guests in the same stateroom. Club Orange must be purchased prior to cruise departure and is not available for purchase on board.

Once a guest has booked their cruise, they or their travel advisor can add Club Orange by contacting Holland America Line Ship Inventory at 1-888-628-8107 or 206-626-7381.

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1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Which just proves once again, for all those who say they would pay more to see their favorite cruise line stop cutting costs.....  it ain't necessarily borne out by reality.

 

 

Well, maybe a little teeny bit more...

 

But one other thing to factor in carefully when doing price comparisons is to look at where the ships actually dock.  Sometimes with the larger ships there are many costs associated with getting where one really wants to be -- whereas the smaller ships may pull right into port in the desired area, sometimes even negating the need for excursions.  This can happen even in wildlife areas -- where a small ship is in close for nature viewing, so one doesn't need to go out whale watching, for example.

 

Just something else to think about.  There are a lot of moving parts to cruise pricing.  It's very daunting. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by AncientWanderer

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And back to the topic of this thread, looking at Lazy Lake's post #137 about Club Orange,  no, I don't like the direction things are going with HAL.   The CO just seems so...pandering.  This cannot mean good things for the MDR.

 

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47 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

And back to the topic of this thread, looking at Lazy Lake's post #137 about Club Orange,  no, I don't like the direction things are going with HAL.   The CO just seems so...pandering.  This cannot mean good things for the MDR.

 

 

Pandering. Thank you, I have been looking for the right word and you supplied it.

 

When I was on K'dam this winter, CO was very new. Check-in (Port Everglades) was ridiculous. When I went to the priority line for check-in, the woman saw that I was in a NS, so she greeted me and led me to my check-in station.  I walked on the orange CO mat, and around a corner to a more private check-in area. Private in that there was only one desk back there. Oooh! I'm the only person on the ship!!! Except that this desk was behind the wall that separates the check-in stations from the waiting area. Some privacy, I was in full view of everyone waiting. Not that I cared, but it all seemed so silly and phony.

 

My cabin steward said that NS passengers get CO because HAL "wants you to feel special." 

 

It's all in how you look at it. Money grab? Pandering? Keeping up with industry innovations like "faster to the fun"?

 

 

Edited by 3rdGenCunarder

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1 hour ago, mcrcruiser said:

 If we were still flying

 

Now there's a direction HAL seemed to have forgotten completely. People might like a very nice way to get from Boston to Florida and back two months later.  Or Rotterdam to Spain and back some time later. There are no such itineraries, not by HAL or any other line.  You go on a cruise and return to the same port, or you go from let's say Barcelona to Civitavecchia. Fly in to the first port, fly out of the last. The one exception being Cunard.

 

Wikipedia says "between 2.5% and 40%" have a fear of flying. Even 2.5% is a huge load of possible pax who are looking for alternatives and would bring the rest of the family as well. Without kids, that's 5%. That's many people, more than the total share of the industry HAL has, who would like to simply be brought from A to B and have all the nice food and entertainment. That was the very first direction of HAL, and IMHO that was not a bad direction at all. 

 

 

Edited by AmazedByCruising

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2 hours ago, Lazy Lakes said:

After some people did not like the service you can now upgrade to club Orange

They are rolling it out in October on all ships.

 

I have absolutely no interest in paying more money for some of the benefits that a Mariner Society member at my level should receive.  An enhanced Room Service Breakfast menu of Steak and Eggs and Smoked Salmon Benedict?  Those items are already available on the regular Room Service Breakfast menu, but one does not have to pay $25/$35/day to order them.  A stateroom upgrade within the category booked?  If I book a Category F, what's the "wonderful" upgrade going to be within a Category F?  I would have already booked the "best available stateroom within that Category" based upon my knowledge of that Category and my preferences.

 

Maybe for a cruiser new to HAL and has some money to spend (or for some other legitimate reason of their own), Club Orange is a gimmick that may help to produce a few extra dollars for HAL.  

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1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I have absolutely no interest in paying more money for some of the benefits that a Mariner Society member at my level should receive.  An enhanced Room Service Breakfast menu of Steak and Eggs and Smoked Salmon Benedict?  Those items are already available on the regular Room Service Breakfast menu, but one does not have to pay $25/$35/day to order them.  A stateroom upgrade within the category booked?  If I book a Category F, what's the "wonderful" upgrade going to be within a Category F?  I would have already booked the "best available stateroom within that Category" based upon my knowledge of that Category and my preferences.

 

Maybe for a cruiser new to HAL and has some money to spend (or for some other legitimate reason of their own), Club Orange is a gimmick that may help to produce a few extra dollars for HAL.  

 

My understanding is that the upgrade isn't within the letter category, but within the larger category, like inside, ocean view, verandah, etc. So you might be upgraded from an F to an E or a D, but not to a verandah. 

 

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4 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Pandering. Thank you, I have been looking for the right word and you supplied it.

 

When I was on K'dam this winter, CO was very new. Check-in (Port Everglades) was ridiculous. When I went to the priority line for check-in, the woman saw that I was in a NS, so she greeted me and led me to my check-in station.  I walked on the orange CO mat, and around a corner to a more private check-in area. Private in that there was only one desk back there. Oooh! I'm the only person on the ship!!! Except that this desk was behind the wall that separates the check-in stations from the waiting area. Some privacy, I was in full view of everyone waiting. Not that I cared, but it all seemed so silly and phony.

 

My cabin steward said that NS passengers get CO because HAL "wants you to feel special." 

 

It's all in how you look at it. Money grab? Pandering? Keeping up with industry innovations like "faster to the fun"?

 

 

 

The difference though with Carnival and FTTF they are not putting them ahead of their Diamonds and Platinums.  They also don’t receive the “Captain’s Invite” that only Diamonds receive.  HAL, on the other hand, is putting CO ahead of their 5 and 4 Star Mariners.  @AncientWanderer  CO did negatively impact our Friend’s  (who are 4 Star) Dining experience recently on the Amsterdam.  Since CO is fairly new to the other Class Ships I guess we’ll be hearing more from non-CO and Non-Neptune passengers on whether they, too, felt the MDR has been affected on non-Pinnacle Class Ships.  

Edited by idiebabe

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3 hours ago, idiebabe said:

 

The difference though with Carnival and FTTF they are not putting them ahead of their Diamonds and Platinums.  They also don’t receive the “Captain’s Invite” that only Diamonds receive.  HAL, on the other hand, is putting CO ahead of their 5 and 4 Star Mariners.  @AncientWanderer  CO did negatively impact our Friend’s  (who are 4 Star) Dining experience recently on the Amsterdam.  Since CO is fairly new to the other Class Ships I guess we’ll be hearing more from non-CO and Non-Neptune passengers on whether they, too, felt the MDR has been affected on non-Pinnacle Class Ships.  

 

We have a 30-day HAL cruise booked, after which we will be 5-star.  Already that fifth star is not too valuable as far as benefits go, but I was kind of excited to reach the goal nonetheless.  Now I'm really scratching my head.   Before making final payment for our cruise, I'm going to watch for more reviews and comments here on CC, particularly with regard to the MDR and availability of tables.

 

A lot of the things offered by Club Orange seem like "fluff" and don't concern me a bit -- as @rkacruiser said, "a gimmick" -- but an easy and comfortable cruise dining experience is really, really important to us.  

The report back from the Amsterdam is disturbing.  After spending so many thousands on HAL cruises, I can't imagine having to pay an extra $50 a day to assure smooth sailing.

 

 

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9 hours ago, AncientWanderer said:

A lot of the things offered by Club Orange seem like "fluff" and don't concern me a bit -- as @rkacruiser said, "a gimmick" -- but an easy and comfortable cruise dining experience is really, really important to us.  

The report back from the Amsterdam is disturbing.  After spending so many thousands on HAL cruises, I can't imagine having to pay an extra $50 a day to assure smooth sailing.

 

 

 

Exactly!  

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10 hours ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

 

A lot of the things offered by Club Orange seem like "fluff" and don't concern me a bit -- as @rkacruiser said, "a gimmick" -- but an easy and comfortable cruise dining experience is really, really important to us.  

The report back from the Amsterdam is disturbing.  After spending so many thousands on HAL cruises, I can't imagine having to pay an extra $50 a day to assure smooth sailing.

 

 

Might be $50 per diem on the humungoudams, where they have a dedicated CO venue.  However, it can't be selling well elsewhere 'cause my offer was $15(!) per diem for my cruise next week on little Volendam.  But, as I mentioned on another thread, I'm already 4* so there is no added value for me.  Also as I mentioned on the other thread, I could find NO other 4* or 5* folks who took the offer on my Amsterdam voyage earlier this month.  I acknowledge the possibility, however, that lower-tier Mariners not in Neptunes may perceive some benefit. 

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16 minutes ago, Av8rix said:

Might be $50 per diem on the humungoudams, where they have a dedicated CO venue.  However, it can't be selling well elsewhere 'cause my offer was $15(!) per diem for my cruise next week on little Volendam.  But, as I mentioned on another thread, I'm already 4* so there is no added value for me.  Also as I mentioned on the other thread, I could find NO other 4* or 5* folks who took the offer on my Amsterdam voyage earlier this month.  I acknowledge the possibility, however, that lower-tier Mariners not in Neptunes may perceive some benefit. 

 

I wonder who they are actively reaching out to.  We are on Oosterdam next month in an SS and have heard nothing about it.  But whatever...$15 or $50, we're passing on this one.  I'd rather just go to the specialty restaurants.

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1 hour ago, Av8rix said:

Might be $50 per diem on the humungoudams, where they have a dedicated CO venue.  However, it can't be selling well elsewhere 'cause my offer was $15(!) per diem for my cruise next week on little Volendam.  But, as I mentioned on another thread, I'm already 4* so there is no added value for me.  Also as I mentioned on the other thread, I could find NO other 4* or 5* folks who took the offer on my Amsterdam voyage earlier this month.  I acknowledge the possibility, however, that lower-tier Mariners not in Neptunes may perceive some benefit. 

 

As a 2* Mariner, I think I would seriously consider the deal at $15 per person, per day.  That could get you a nice upgrade, free ship tour, access to the Club Orange for meals, priority boarding, and many other cool perks.  At $50 per person, per day, I'm not sure the value is there.

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1 hour ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

As a 2* Mariner, I think I would seriously consider the deal at $15 per person, per day.  That could get you a nice upgrade, free ship tour, access to the Club Orange for meals, priority boarding, and many other cool perks.  

 

Of course.

 

Don't forget to spend spend spend on the extras. You have a heavy responsibility. You're replacing the guys who have left for Viking, Oceania and Seabourn. 

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