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loman

So , are dogs allowed on cruise ships now ?

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4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Who pays for those who write the evaluations?  Who pays for those who review the proposed evaluations for legality?  Who pays for the enforcement officers who investigate reports of false certifications, arrest or serve those accused, and the court time to try and fine those in violation.  Sorry my friend, but any federal law will cost millions just to enact and enforce it.

 

To start, with fees for the service.

 

I just looked, there are about 387,000 service animals in the US.  At $100, one time fee, that generates $3.87 million dollars.

 

As for enforcement, there are already enforcement agencies around, and courts and such.

 

And, as I mentioned, there are already model programs developed for other certifications, that did not cost millions to develop.

Edited by SRF

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40 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No, the ESA (emotional support animal) thing is getting abused.  Do you know for a fact that the Bouvier was not a service animal?  There is no requirement to have any identification on the dog.  The fact that the owner didn't want the dog petted leans me towards it being a service animal.

I stand corrected young fella. I meant EMOTIONAL but erronously (subconciously) typed SERVICE. My deepest apologies, LOL, but that "rule" where there's no requirement to have any ID on the dog NEEDS TO CHANGE.

Edited by johnjen

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On 9/16/2019 at 5:44 PM, loman said:

Just off the Allure yesterday .

I saw 3 , possibly 4 little doggies on the cruise .

None were wearing service vests .

I saw little kids playing with one and petting it and the owner was pleased with the attention his cruise partner was getting .

I don't think service animals like to be handled by strangers.

I'm glad they weren't large dogs , but just give it time .

 

 

 

 

We were on Adventure last year. At Officers Q&A in theater, Officer Bill said strangest request they received for a 'service animal' was a request for a 'service squirrel'. 

Edited by Rocket3D

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11 hours ago, smplybcause said:

 

Actually, miniature horses have long been legit service animals. While they are not ideal for all disabilities, some opt for a horse as they outlive dogs. There is very real cost savings to having one animal around for 25 years vs having to have 2 or more dogs in that timeframe.

 

They're not ideal for airplanes and cruise ships.

Also, the real benefits of support animals beyond just leader dogs need to be disseminated to the public a little better.  If the public is slow to understand this moving target of farm and circus animals appearing in the darndest of places, it's because we don't fully understand why this animal is favored over that animals, and the varied disorders, disabilities and diseases each are best suited to.  And that's on the medical community.  Not the public at large.

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On 9/16/2019 at 5:39 PM, Ashland said:

Well something needs to be done !!

 

I drive Uber/Lyft about 1,000 rides a year to pay for our cruises. Anyway, rideshare drivers are forced to pick up riders w/ service dogs. I have my rules though... 

1. the dog must be trained. I'm allowed to ask what the dog is 'trained' for. I expect an answer.

2. the dog must be contained. Either in a portable kennel, crate or leash. 

3. if no portable kennel or crate is supplied, then a blanket must be used for the dog to lay on. 

4. no answer, no kennel or crate, no leash & no blanket, means no ride. If these expectations are not met, I cancel the ride & move on. 

 

I haul people. 95% of my riders are business travelers to/from airports and having dog hair in my car is not an option. I have 0 tolerance for anybody claiming to need a service dog w/o consideration for others. On the other hand, if a rider needs my service & my car, and they are also in need of a service dog, I'll go out of my way to assist them if they are considerate of my car, my job, and other potential riders.  

Edited by Goodtime Cruizin

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3 minutes ago, MotownVoice said:

 

They're not ideal for airplanes and cruise ships.

Also, the real benefits of support animals beyond just leader dogs need to be disseminated to the public a little better.  If the public is slow to understand this moving target of farm and circus animals appearing in the darndest of places, it's because we don't fully understand why this animal is favored over that animals, and the varied disorders, disabilities and diseases each are best suited to.  And that's on the medical community.  Not the public at large.

 

Lots of things aren't ideal for airplanes and cruise ships, but most don't have the excuse of a legit medical need for it. 

 

A service horse (or any other service animal) is way less disruptive to the public at large than a screaming child, a belligerently drunk adult, a self righteous person yelling at guest services, etc etc. 

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4 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

Lots of things aren't ideal for airplanes and cruise ships, but most don't have the excuse of a legit medical need for it. 

 

A service horse (or any other service animal) is way less disruptive to the public at large than a screaming child, a belligerently drunk adult, a self righteous person yelling at guest services, etc etc. 


Your first point ignores what I just said about the need to better educate the public as to the importance of this circus, as opposed to just expecting us all to "get it."
Your second point is completely irrelevant.  Ponies on a plane are less disruptive than a bomb, too.  Why didn't you include that in your silly comparison? 

Edited by MotownVoice

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1 minute ago, MotownVoice said:


Your first point ignores what I just said about the need to educate the public as to the importance of this circus.
Your second point is completely irrelevant.  Ponies on a plane are less disruptive than a bomb, too.  Why didn't you include that in your silly comparison? 

 

If anyone is using silly comparisons, it's obviously you (seriously, bombs?). You're also using your opinion on what's "ideal" as a fact, when it's not as I'm sure anyone who needs to travel with their service animal thinks it's quite ideal to have them on a cruise or an airplane. Continuously referring to service animals as a circus is also not ideal, and rather demeaning of the work they do and freedoms they grant their person. 

 

If the public wants to be educated about service animals, there's plenty of ways for them to do that. The ADA is not a new thing and neither are service animals. 

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On 9/17/2019 at 3:07 AM, brillohead said:


Life-threatening allergies, diabetes, deafness, and epilepsy are examples of "invisible" disabilities that can be helped by a valid service animal.  You're basically saying that blindness is the only "acceptable" disability for someone to cruise, and all others have to just stay home.

 

 

 

 

I would be on board with this until you and others that truly support valid needs for service dogs band together to get a true government oversight to stop the abuse. Oversight is needed. Until then,  serivce dogs for the blind should be the only service dogs allowed anywhere, much less a cruise ship. 

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18 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

Lots of things aren't ideal for airplanes and cruise ships, but most don't have the excuse of a legit medical need for it. 

 

A service horse (or any other service animal) is way less disruptive to the public at large than a screaming child, a belligerently drunk adult, a self righteous person yelling at guest services, etc etc. 

 

Not really. The fact is... kids are kids. At one time we were all kids. Drunk's can be kicked off or refused service. Yelling at anyone makes one look bad. But a service horse? less disruptive? Come on. LOL Get real. A horse anywhere gets attention. Service animals for people who think they are entitled, well..."Aren't You Special" comes to mind. 

Edited by Goodtime Cruizin

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@Goodtime Cruizin certainly you are using guide dogs for the blind as an example? As has been previously mentioned, there are highly trained Service Dogs that do more than act as Guide Dogs. 

 

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

 

https://www.adatitleiii.com/2018/08/service-animals-vs-emotional-support-animals-ferreting-out-the-truth/

Edited by JennyB1977

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9 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

If anyone is using silly comparisons, it's obviously you (seriously, bombs?). You're also using your opinion on what's "ideal" as a fact, when it's not as I'm sure anyone who needs to travel with their service animal thinks it's quite ideal to have them on a cruise or an airplane. Continuously referring to service animals as a circus is also not ideal, and rather demeaning of the work they do and freedoms they grant their person. 

 

If the public wants to be educated about service animals, there's plenty of ways for them to do that. The ADA is not a new thing and neither are service animals. 

 

I think those that use any animal for emotional support should be the first to be 'red flagged'. If they're too emotionaly unstable to deal w/ life w/o an animal around them, they're damn sure too emotionaly unstable to own a gun.  

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2 minutes ago, JennyB1977 said:

@Goodtime Cruizin certainly you are using guide dogs for the blind as an example? As has been previously mentioned, there are highly trained Service Dogs that do more than act as Guide Dogs. 

 

Service Animal - From the ADA National Network "A service animal is any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not considered service animals.

The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the individual’s disability. Examples of work or tasks include, but are not limited to:

  • Assisting individuals who are blind or have low vision with navigation and other tasks.
  • Alerting individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing to the presence of people or sounds.
  • Providing non-violent protection or rescue work.
  • Pulling a wheelchair.
  • Assisting an individual during a seizure.
  • Alerting individuals to the presence of allergens.
  • Retrieving items such as medicine or the telephone.
  • Providing physical support and assistance with balance and stability to individuals with mobility disabilities.
  • Helping individuals with psychiatric and neurological disabilities by preventing or interrupting impulsive or destructive behaviors."

Emotional Support Animal - From the ADA National Network "While Emotional Support Animals or Comfort Animals are often used as part of a medical treatment plan as therapy animals, they are not considered service animals under the ADA. These support animals provide companionship, relieve loneliness, and sometimes help with depression, anxiety, and certain phobias, but do not have special training to perform tasks that assist people with disabilities. Even though some states have laws defining therapy animals, these animals are not limited to working with people with disabilities and therefore are not covered by federal laws protecting the use of service animals.  Therapy animals provide people with therapeutic contact, usually in a clinical setting, to improve their physical, social, emotional, and/or cognitive functioning."

 

https://www.adatitleiii.com/2018/08/service-animals-vs-emotional-support-animals-ferreting-out-the-truth/

 

I take into consideration of all things. I'm a quality driver w/ a high rating and over 5000 rides. But I follow my rules to enter my car. These rules are common sense based and If they can not be complied with, I cancel & move on. 

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3 hours ago, Sherri914 said:

 

I always wondered what happens to the surrounding people with allergies.   What happens on a plane, for instance?   Is everyone in that enclosed space (let's say an airplane) supposed to suffer their allergic reactions to being around the service animal?    Discussions like this always make me think of that and wonder whose rights prevail.   

 

I have a severe allergy to perfumes. I always have to move when I'm near someone that bathes in perfume.

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10 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Not really. The fact is... kids are kids. At one time we were all kids. Drunk's can be kicked off or refused service. Yelling at anyone makes one look bad. But a service horse? less disruptive? Come on. LOL Get real. A horse anywhere gets attention. Service animals for people who think they are entitled, well..."Aren't You Special" comes to mind. 

 

Yeah, but that's not the ANIMAL being disruptive. It's all the people around it not letting it do it's JOB. 

 

You obviously haven't spent much time around disabled people, or at least those requiring help from a service animal. I suggest you do that before you go spouting off about things you don't know much (maybe anything) about. 

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7 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I think those that use any animal for emotional support should be the first to be 'red flagged'. If they're too emotionaly unstable to deal w/ life w/o an animal around them, they're damn sure too emotionaly unstable to own a gun.  

 

I have specifically stated service animal in every single one of my posts on this subject. I suggest you educate yourself about them. 

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Just now, smplybcause said:

 

I have specifically stated service animal in every single one of my posts on this subject. I suggest you educate yourself about them. 

 

I suggest that you form a group in an effort to get your Congressman to help stop the abuse. Until it's stopped, you'll always have people like me that question service animals. BTW, do you ever or should I say, have you ever called out someone that was abusing the system? I doubt it.  

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26 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I would be on board with this until you and others that truly support valid needs for service dogs band together to get a true government oversight to stop the abuse. Oversight is needed. Until then,  serivce dogs for the blind should be the only service dogs allowed anywhere, much less a cruise ship. 

 

You probably don't mean only service dogs for the blind, but in case you do, you would be blown away at what an officially trained service dog for people with Autism can do.  Sometimes I think that they are more responsible and attentive than humans.

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Just now, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I suggest that you form a group in an effort to get your Congressman to help stop the abuse. Until it's stopped, you'll always have people like me that question service animals. BTW, do you ever or should I say, have you ever called out someone that was abusing the system? I doubt it.  

 

Emotional support animals, which you are up in arms about, are a separate "system" than service animals. They're called out separately in the ADA an elsewhere. And this separation is what is allowing companies, like Royal Caribbean, to curb or eliminate their acceptance. 

 

As I do not know the medical history of strangers, the only way I can "call out" someone is when an animal is misbehaving.

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4 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

Emotional support animals, which you are up in arms about, are a separate "system" than service animals. They're called out separately in the ADA an elsewhere. And this separation is what is allowing companies, like Royal Caribbean, to curb or eliminate their acceptance. 

 

As I do not know the medical history of strangers, the only way I can "call out" someone is when an animal is misbehaving.

 

But yet you call out me & others on Cruise Critic for voicing our opinions. Such as it is.

As a reminder... in this thread alone there was discussion of a 

1. service horse

2. picture of a service cat of the door of a ship's cabin

3. posts about 3 people parading their dogs in the promenade

 

Yet you wish to 'call out' me. Go for it. I don't care. I'm good w/ me.  

 

I'm done here. 

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1 minute ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

But yet you call out me & others on Cruise Critic for voicing our opinions. Such as it is.

As a reminder... in this thread alone there was discussion of a 

1. service horse

2. picture of a service cat of the door of a ship's cabin

3. posts about 3 people parading their dogs in the promenade

 

Yet you wish to 'call out' me. Go for it. I don't care. I'm good w/ me.  

 

I'm done here. 

 

Yet only #1 is a service animal. Which, again, is ALL that I have been talking about. I have not talked about emotional support animals at all except to point out that they are not service animals. 

 

I wouldn't have to call anything out if people took the time to realize that there's a difference between service animals and emotional support animals. And it's more than an opinion when it effects others ability to live their life with as few limitation as possible. Like your horribly ignorant opinion that only blind people have a legit need for a service animal. 

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I was just perusing the ADA website. I saw on this page that as of March 2011 only dogs are now recognized as Service Animals under Title II and III. Does anyone have any further information on this? As others have mentioned, I could have sworn miniature horses and monkeys were covered at one time. Appears they have some coverage for miniature horses but that's it.

Edited by JennyB1977

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1 hour ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I would be on board with this until you and others that truly support valid needs for service dogs band together to get a true government oversight to stop the abuse. Oversight is needed. Until then,  serivce dogs for the blind should be the only service dogs allowed anywhere, much less a cruise ship. 

Government oversight?  Which government?  Cruise ships sail to/from many countries, with different flags.

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54 minutes ago, JennyB1977 said:

I was just perusing the ADA website. I saw on this page that as of March 2011 only dogs are now recognized as Service Animals under Title II and III. Does anyone have any further information on this? As others have mentioned, I could have sworn miniature horses and monkeys were covered at one time. Appears they have some coverage for miniature horses but that's it.

Yes, the changes basically remove miniature horses from airplanes, since the size of the horse could affect the "legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility."

 

Monkeys have been used as service animals, but I don't believe they were ever officially defined as service animals.

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