The end of NCL? Andy Stuart is gone.

[fshagan]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

It’s not clear to me what exactly happened with Kevin Sheehan.  I’ve heard rumors, but who really knows?

 

IIRC, the timeline was that he merged NCL with the company that owned Oceania and Regent Seven Seas (Prestige) into the new NCLH with the boss, Del Rio, at that company under him. Then Sheehan left / was booted out and Del Rio took over as CEO of NCLH. Sheehan has some legal issues where the suit claims:

 

Quote

 

According to the legal complaint, a month-long investigation by the cruise company from December 2014 to January 2015 prompted Sheehan’s departure, after the investigation confirmed a pattern of “personal and professional misconduct and recklessness, stunning in its scope and hubris, corrosive and detrimental in its impact on the company.”

 

Though the board of the company was well aware of Sheehan’s indiscretions, the suit claims, the company didn’t fire him until December 2014. Frank Del Rio, CEO of Prestige Cruises International, which Norwegian acquired, took over as CEO after Sheehan.
 

 

 

No idea if that's true; remember the lawsuit can say anything it wants, and it's by the guy that lost his job to Sheehan, so it's not in any way "unbiased".

 

Now for some further speculation: if Andy ends up at Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line, co-owned by Kevin Sheehan, we may have a new competitor in the making. BPCL added another older ship, but if the management team includes both Sheehan and Stuart then perhaps the company might look more attractive to investors.

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by fshagan

[graphicguy]

16 minutes ago, fshagan said:

 

IIRC, the timeline was that he merged NCL with the company that owned Oceania and Regent Seven Seas (Prestige) into the new NCLH with the boss, Del Rio, at that company under him. Then Sheehan left / was booted out and Del Rio took over as CEO of NCLH. Sheehan has some legal issues where the suit claims:

 

 

No idea if that's true; remember the lawsuit can say anything it wants, and it's by the guy that lost his job to Sheehan, so it's not in any way "unbiased".

 

Now for some further speculation: if Andy ends up at Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line, co-owned by Kevin Sheehan, we may have a new competitor in the making. BPCL added another older ship, but if the management team includes both Sheehan and Stuart then perhaps the company might look more attractive to investors.

 

Thanks!

 

I had no idea.  Anyone can sue anyone else for anything.  If they ended up giving Sheehan a buyout, then someone forced him out.  Whether the allegations were true or not is a different matter.  Bottom line, DelRio took Sheehans place. Who would have knowledge of such "personal and professional misconduct"?  Were there suits brought by other NCL employees?  Who knows?

 

Reading the Miami Herald article, it sounds like Veitch (Sheehan's predecessor), who made the accusations against Sheehan, has a bit of "sour grapes" attitude towards Sheehan.  And, that NCL leveled strong denials of Veitch's accusations.  But, someone was the fall guy, and it was probably cheaper to fire Sheehan than to back him in court.

 

BTW, I noticed that Veitch also filed suit against Virgin Cruise Lines, who subsequently paid him off.

 

Not sure what the personal conduct clauses are with cruise line employees.  But, sounds like Sheehan was pretty liberal in sharing "his love" while he was there.  Fireable offense?  Dunno!

Edited October 7, 2019 by graphicguy

[IrieBajan54]

46 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

Well said.  Personally I'll never understand the loyalists that defend their cruise line to the death.  It's a large company but they act like it's their first born child.  

 

I enjoy sailing on all the cruise lines and love the variety.  There are some lines I prefer over others but find they pretty much all do some things very well and other things not so well.  They all have their strong and weak points, but some probably have too many weak points.  The perfect cruise line doesn't exist, and of course my idea of perfection might be a disaster for someone else.  I also find they go through cycles which is why I never completely write off a cruise line.  One bad experience doesn't mean a couple years later it won't be excellent.  The experience is always evolving and there are so many variables at play.  

 

NCL used to be my favorite, back in the days of the SS NORWAY.  Then they got bad with far too many management changes and cash shortages.  Then Sheehan came along and really turned things around.  He put NCL back on the competitive map.  It wasn't perfect but a far cry from its former mismatched and mediocre image.  Now NCL is going through a cycle that is very off-putting, where the customer almost seems like a bother and they just want to squeeze as much out of you as possible.  So I'm giving NCL a break but I'll be back for the Leonardo Class.  I love prototype ships and I'm also hoping NCL has some new direction by then.  Some times things have to swing pretty far in one direction before they start to correct themselves and become more balance.  I'm hoping NCL will start to swing in the other direction but with FDR at the helm I don't hold out much hope.  

 

 

.

.

Amen!

[Cruisercl]

10 hours ago, newmexicoNita said:

actually NCL has had a much better year than RCL or Carnival. Carnival is way down, RCI is just below NCL and NCL is at the top since their low this year. They all took a beating after Cuba and then again, last week. When we purchased NCL stock about 5 or 6 years ago it was about $30 a share. It has gone as high as $60 since we purchased it, and yes, now down to $48. Our Carnival stock took such a beating over the years we sold it, but luckily still made money. 

This totally explains your posts here.

All about NCL stocks and personal  money making and nothing about the loss of good customer service and the deterioration of a good product.

Very sad indeed. Do you even cruise on NCL currently or just post here?

[kitty-sail]

On 10/3/2019 at 8:59 PM, PortFees45 said:

Frank Del Rio only cares about Haven passengers. Everyone else can eat slop out of a bucket for all he cares (for your convenience, of course). 

 

Andy cares about the average passenger. Sad to see him go. 

I agree totally. But Haven prices have gone up quite a bit. I don't think the service and quality of food has gone up proportionately.

 

[esm54687]

3 hours ago, kitty-sail said:

I agree totally. But Haven prices have gone up quite a bit. I don't think the service and quality of food has gone up proportionately.

 

People are willing to pay the ridiculous prices for Haven and sometimes overbid to get the "experience of Haven"........ so from a business standpoint why would NCL spend money to increase the quality of food and service that results in decreases of the profit margin.

 

This is happening in all aspects of business....... I could give 1000 examples of quality of a service has not grown proportionately with the price to the consumer from movie tickets to sporting events to air travel to Walt Disney World to 

..... 

[newmexicoNita]

12 hours ago, Cruisercl said:

This totally explains your posts here.

All about NCL stocks and personal  money making and nothing about the loss of good customer service and the deterioration of a good product.

Very sad indeed. Do you even cruise on NCL currently or just post here?

Oh my goodness, you must not spend much time reading CC. We have cruised about 50 times and 25 on NCL. We are leaving this Sunday for the Breakaway and did the Dawn earlier this year.

 

As for the deterioration, even when it comes to food, in my view the food is much better than it was 10 years ago but not as good as 20 years ago. Like all mass marketed lines things change and yes, the food is one of them. My support for NCL came way before I had any stock in the product. In fact I really am not an expert on stock period. We are not huge stock holders in any company. So, sorry to say this, but your ideas as to supporting NCL is so off base it is laughable.

 

If the product has gone down hill so badly why are the ships not going out empty. and you certainly would not see the product growing.  That being said let's all get back to discussing NCL and the pros and cons instead of who is or is not running the company and why. None of us have a clue what really happened nor do we know what will happen with then in the future. I don't think of CC as being a website to discuss business issues. 

[eroller]

1 hour ago, newmexicoNita said:

That being said let's all get back to discussing NCL and the pros and cons instead of who is or is not running the company and why. None of us have a clue what really happened nor do we know what will happen with then in the future. I don't think of CC as being a website to discuss business issues. 

 

 

I think CC is an open forum to discuss anything regarding the cruise industry, including its leadership.  This thread is about who is running NCL and what changes may or may not occur after a major leadership change.  I don't think that is out of bounds by any means, and no one is forcing anyone to read this thread.  There are plenty of other threads that discuss the normal mundane topics of tipping, what time the buffet is, dress codes, etc etc.  

[bmwman]

On 10/8/2019 at 1:15 PM, eroller said:

 

 

I think CC is an open forum to discuss anything regarding the cruise industry, including its leadership.  This thread is about who is running NCL and what changes may or may not occur after a major leadership change.  I don't think that is out of bounds by any means, and no one is forcing anyone to read this thread.  There are plenty of other threads that discuss the normal mundane topics of tipping, what time the buffet is, dress codes, etc etc.  

Very interesting but can I come back to the idea of Free Style. Andy comes form a marketing world and if as I believe to be true he is responsible for Freestyle wow what a legacy!!!  

[fshagan]

On 10/7/2019 at 7:52 AM, graphicguy said:

I had no idea.  Anyone can sue anyone else for anything.  If they ended up giving Sheehan a buyout, then someone forced him out.  Whether the allegations were true or not is a different matter.  Bottom line, DelRio took Sheehans place. Who would have knowledge of such "personal and professional misconduct"?  Were there suits brought by other NCL employees?  Who knows?

 

Reading the Miami Herald article, it sounds like Veitch (Sheehan's predecessor), who made the accusations against Sheehan, has a bit of "sour grapes" attitude towards Sheehan.  And, that NCL leveled strong denials of Veitch's accusations.  But, someone was the fall guy, and it was probably cheaper to fire Sheehan than to back him in court.

 

BTW, I noticed that Veitch also filed suit against Virgin Cruise Lines, who subsequently paid him off.

 

Not sure what the personal conduct clauses are with cruise line employees.  But, sounds like Sheehan was pretty liberal in sharing "his love" while he was there.  Fireable offense?  Dunno!

 

I thought there was another suit. But I can't find any mention of it now, so I may have it mixed up with some other company. Sheehan did win the suit in late 2017 (just found that story, or would have mentioned that). The sexual escapades were stricken from the suit before it began trial, so I assume the plaintiff's caved on that issue. Sheehan's attorney insisted that he wasn't forced out but resigned on his own volition after merging with Prestige and having Del Rio in place to succeed him.

 

I didn't find any sexual harassment suits against NCL or NCLH in my quick search. I wouldn't put any validity into Veitch's claims as to Sheehan's mores since the claim was stricken from the record.

 

I thought Sheehan's departure was odd at the time because he was fairly popular, and had improved the company's performance.

 

[Casino Comp Chick]

All the price gouging is only going to get worse now. People think it’s bad now....just wait.

[esm54687]

1 hour ago, Casino Comp Chick said:

All the price gouging is only going to get worse now. People think it’s bad now....just wait.

Then FDR must be running Walt Disney Company as well....... at $110-169 for a one day ticket to WDW or charging up to $24 a night parking for guests who already pay a premium to stay at one of the resorts.....   not to mention the game they play to require cable companies to put ESPN in a higher package category (for a higher revenue) and now pulling all of the Star Wars, Marvel Universe, etc movies off Netflix or Amazon to charge people an additional monthly fee to watch 

 

You mean "price gouging" hasn't happened under Saint Andy's watch?? Have you read the NCL board since 2015????? What is the most common phrase here: "NCL is Nickel and Diming it's customer"..... loss of Blue Man Group or Nickolodean for example? The ginormous price increase for Vibe or the ridiculous price for the PBP / PPBP...... the high cost of the new PAP...... 

 

So the first price increase that happens post-Andy should be interesting because no one will remember the huge revenue generators that Andy put in place. 

 

As I've said a couple times in this thread..... I'm not pro FDR or anti Stuart..... but I believe people posting think Andy has had no hand or decision making authority in anything that increased costs to NCL cruisers since 2015 and put all blame unfairly on FDR....... 

Edited October 24, 2019 by esm54687

[GA Dave]

5 hours ago, esm54687 said:

Then FDR must be running Walt Disney Company as well....... at $110-169 for a one day ticket to WDW or charging up to $24 a night parking for guests who already pay a premium to stay at one of the resorts.....   not to mention the game they play to require cable companies to put ESPN in a higher package category (for a higher revenue) and now pulling all of the Star Wars, Marvel Universe, etc movies off Netflix or Amazon to charge people an additional monthly fee to watch.

Here is a good chart to explain your point about Disney.

Edited October 24, 2019 by GA Dave

[SailBreakaway]

You will see Andy re-emerge with another operator. 

[beerman2]

12 hours ago, SailBreakaway said:

You will see Andy re-emerge with another operator. 

Depends on the circumstances of his leaving. If he left on his own accord (highly unlikely) he probably has a no compete clause for x amount of years.

 

If he was "fired" or "shoved out" Yes he can go elsewhere NOW!

 

I guess we will see the circumstances of his departure soon.

[SailBreakaway]

1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

Depends on the circumstances of his leaving. If he left on his own accord (highly unlikely) he probably has a no compete clause for x amount of years.

 

If he was "fired" or "shoved out" Yes he can go elsewhere NOW!

 

I guess we will see the circumstances of his departure soon.

A little birdie flew by my window and said so...  

[beerman2]

13 minutes ago, SailBreakaway said:

A little birdie flew by my window and said so...  

Has nothing to do with that, it's typical of how "many" corporations do with key management personnel.

[fstuff1]

On 10/24/2019 at 6:30 AM, esm54687 said:

You mean "price gouging" hasn't happened under Saint Andy's watch?? Have you read the NCL board since 2015????? What is the most common phrase here: "NCL is Nickel and Diming it's customer"..... loss of Blue Man Group or Nickolodean for example? The ginormous price increase for Vibe or the ridiculous price for the PBP / PPBP...... the high cost of the new PAP...... 

 

oh you mean my signature? 

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by fstuff1