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Hand sanitizers still in use? "Corporate" has decided to eliminate them??

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10 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Does anyone else hum or sing inside your head "Happy Birthday" twice while you wash your hands???  I still do.  I sing inside my head...  

It has something to do with the amount of time it takes to sing is the time you need to adequately wash your hands...

Sometimes I do. Especially when I'm out in public (at home it might be out loud, doncha know 😉)

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11 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Does anyone else hum or sing inside your head "Happy Birthday" twice while you wash your hands???  I still do.  I sing inside my head...  

It has something to do with the amount of time it takes to sing is the time you need to adequately wash your hands...

 

Yes, it's a good reminder to be thorough about hand washing. I'm more inclined to do this when I'm not at home and there could be more "unfamiliar" germs.  I sing it only in my head, even when I'm at home. 😀 

 

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15 hours ago, kevingastreich said:

Common sense says that using hand sanitizer is better than using nothing at all.  It kills 99% of the germs that are already ON YOUR OWN hands. In this way, you help not giving the germs that are ALREADY on your hands, to others.

Hand sanitizers do not kill viruses like noro.  Some of those who use the sanitizers may think they're protected from noro so they don't wash their hands.   Therefore, sanitizers can give a false sense of security so they may not be 'better than using nothing at all' and may actually increase the chances of spreading noro.

Edited by RocketMan275

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19 hours ago, kevingastreich said:

Common sense says that using hand sanitizer is better than using nothing at all.  It kills 99% of the germs that are already ON YOUR OWN hands. In this way, you help not giving the germs that are ALREADY on your hands, to others.

You are correct.

But Common Sense is not very common these days - especially on cruise ships. And you have just proved that.

We are not so worried about all the germs that hand sanitizers can kill - but more worried about all the viruses that most of the sanitizers cannot kill.

Colds, Flu,  and Norovirus are not caused by germs. They come from viruses.

Too many cruisers lack the common sense to know the difference.

 

A few of the very expensive hand sanitizers (HAL doesn't use these) can kill viruses - but only when there is a "dwell time" (the period when the sanitizer stays wet on your skin) of 5 minutes or longer. How many cruisers are smart enough to know this and follow it? You can figure that one out. You will not need a calculator.

 

Does washing your hands properly and well kill viruses? No, not at all.

But proper hand washing does remove the vast majority of those viruses and they go down the drain.

 

Will contaminated hands cause you to get norovirus or give it to somebody else? No, not at all.

It only occurs when somebody is naive or careless enough to put those contaminated hands in their eyes, mouth, or nose, or touch something that will go into their eyes, mouth or nose, or touch somebody else's eyes, mouth, or nose, or touch something that will go into somebody else's eyes, mouth, or nose. 

 

The vast majority of people who suffer from Norwalk Virus do not catch it from somebody else. They are so naïve or careless that they give it to themselves.

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13 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Give me a break. So what they are saying is people are stupid. So cruise lines like HAL save some money and put those sanitizer dispensers away until a certain percentage of the stupid people start showing up at the Dr’s office complaining of being sick. Then and only then strategically place them around the ship so as to scare folks into washing their hands. The day HAL starts invoking that practice is the day we stop booking HAL cruises. 

 

No they say that people think that sanitizers help against Noro. Which is what probably more than 90% of the cruising demographic, smart or not, thinks.

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7 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

No they say that people think that sanitizers help against Noro. Which is what probably more than 90% of the cruising demographic, smart or not, thinks.

That’s fine. People, as on this thread, can come up with all kinds of reasons for either using or not using hand sanitizers as has been proven by many threads on this subject. And that’s fine.
 

The bottom line for us, we’re gone if HAL makes the fleet-wide decision to put them away until a noro outbreak. Any BTW we have never cruised on any cruise line in the last 8 years that didn’t have sanitizers available onboard, so I would like to know what cruise lines Donald says CDC studied to come to the conclusion he referenced they did. 

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14 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Give me a break. So what they are saying is people are stupid. So cruise lines like HAL save some money and put those sanitizer dispensers away until a certain percentage of the stupid people start showing up at the Dr’s office complaining of being sick. Then and only then strategically place them around the ship so as to scare folks into washing their hands. The day HAL starts invoking that practice is the day we stop booking HAL cruises. 

Are people stupid? You be the judge.

This year a poll by Pew University found that 13 % of Americans believe that "Judge Judy" is on the Supreme Court.

In that same study one-third of Americans could not name even 3 judges who are actually on the Supreme court.

26% of Americans believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

20% of Americans believe in witches and witchcraft.

5% of Americans believe that the Earth is flat.

 

Do you think that any of those people ever go on a cruise?

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1 minute ago, Donald said:

Are people stupid? You be the judge.

This year a poll by Pew University found that 13 % of Americans believe that "Judge Judy" is on the Supreme Court.

In that same study one-third of Americans could not name even 3 judges who are actually on the Supreme court.

26% of Americans believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

20% of Americans believe in witches and witchcraft.

5% of Americans believe that the Earth is flat.

And probably 1% believe the above poll.

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6 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Hand sanitizers do not kill viruses like noro.  Some of those who use the sanitizers may think they're protected from noro so they don't wash their hands.   Therefore, sanitizers can give a false sense of security so they may not be 'better than using nothing at all' and may actually increase the chances of spreading noro.

I'm not sure about your sense or your security but hand sanitizers DO kill bacteria and there is nothing "false" about that.

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2 hours ago, Donald said:

The vast majority of people who suffer from Norwalk Virus do not catch it from somebody else. They are so naïve or careless that they give it to themselves.

Noro Virus is HIGHLY contagious, that means that you get it from others and give it to others. 

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16 minutes ago, kevingastreich said:

I'm not sure about your sense or your security but hand sanitizers DO kill bacteria and there is nothing "false" about that.

But they do not kill viruses.  Noro is a virus.   Thinking hand sanitizers protect against noro is a false sense of security.

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I’d love real Handwashing stations near the dining room instead of the sanitizer stations. I have a mild allergy to one of the chemicals in some hand sanitizers, propylene glycol, so if I can’t read the label, I don’t use it.


I keep 2 of each of these in back pouch of my purse. ( & sweet n lows).   Refill from The “refill drawer” in kitchen before  walking out the door  or  the “refill pouch” when I travel, And use frequently.

 

I haven’t had a cold in eons ( five years? )

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19 minutes ago, SempreMare said:

I’d love real Handwashing stations near the dining room instead of the sanitizer stations.

Every HAL ship I have ever been on has had a public restroom, with sinks & running water and soap, near the entrance to the dining room. 

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2 hours ago, Donald said:

Are people stupid? You be the judge.

This year a poll by Pew University found that 13 % of Americans believe that "Judge Judy" is on the Supreme Court.

In that same study one-third of Americans could not name even 3 judges who are actually on the Supreme court.

26% of Americans believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

20% of Americans believe in witches and witchcraft.

5% of Americans believe that the Earth is flat.

 

Do you think that any of those people ever go on a cruise?

And your point with regards to this thread if in fact HAL does remove the hand sanitizers from everyday life on their cruise ships is?

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2 hours ago, kevingastreich said:

Noro Virus is HIGHLY contagious, that means that you get it from others and give it to others. 

Yes, it is HIGHLY contagious. Just a very few microscopic spores can infect you.

They can enter your body through a limited number of avenues: mouth, nose, eyes, ears (and on very rare occasions - lungs).

If the virus spores get into your body through these limited areas, you will most likely get sick.

 

You have nearly 100% control of the avenues the virus spores can possibly take to enter your body.

If your hands do not contaminate items getting into your mouth, you will not get sick.

If other people's hands do not contaminate the items getting into your mouth, you will not get sick.

If your hands do not contaminate your eyes, noses, or ears, you will not get sick.

If you do not press someone else's contaminated mobile telephone against your face, you will not get sick.

 

Where do other people's hands have a chance to contaminate items getting into your mouth? Buffets.

(On extremely rare occasions this can also happen in any food venue - by food prep employees).

 

Where do your hands have a chance to contaminate things getting into your mouth? Everywhere.

How clever do you have to be to avoid contaminating yourself? Not very.

 

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5 hours ago, RuthC said:

Every HAL ship I have ever been on has had a public restroom, with sinks & running water and soap, near the entrance to the dining room. 

 

I'm sure that's true.   

 

However, I would bet a Jack$on that if there were a dedicated handwashing station, external to either bathroom, it would get 3x the use of any sink in the public restrooms.

 

Just thinking about my own behavior...

there's a franchise of a fast-casual Louisiana based sandwich chain called Newk's nearby.  A thoughtfully designed hand washing station sits at the back center of the dining area, external to the men's and women's restrooms.  

I always wash up at this handwashing station before eating.

 

However, at other restaurants,  I rarely go into the bathroom to wash up before eating.  Maybe if I've just been to Home Depot where my hands always get dusty.  Instead of going into the bathroom, I'll just use the alcohol packets in my purse.

 

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Edited by SempreMare

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On 10/8/2019 at 3:32 PM, Sue from Canada said:

I always bring my own little bottles and keep one in my purse when I go to dinner.  I'll use it after handing the waiter the dirty menu.

Same here, as well as if I touch the underside of the chair to pull it in a little more, or touch the salt/pepper shakers, or any other common use item.

 

In the buffet I use it in a similar manner, plus I do not lay my silverware directly on the table.  Ever see a crew member "clean" a recently used table with the previous passenger's used napkin?

 

Overkill?  Perhaps, but I don't get sick very often and have never been sick on a cruise.

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No comment on how effective it is but they had the hand sanitizers in use on the Eurodam as of yesterday. I do prefer having a hand washing station available but that's usually only at buffets. 

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On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 1:32 PM, Sue from Canada said:

I always bring my own little bottles and keep one in my purse when I go to dinner.  I'll use it after handing the waiter the dirty menu.

Two months ago I visited the USPH People in Miami for my annual updates on Public Health training.

We discussed all the latest findings and newest regulations.

 

The Inspectors and Bacteriologists held many sessions on basic and advanced techniques for preventing virus-related outbreaks.

During those sessions, we talked about the 2 dirtiest storage places found on most humans; trouser pockets and purses.

What do many people keep in those places? Mobile telephones and bottles of hand sanitizer.

 

Hand sanitizer bottles; You reach your hand into a contaminated pocket or purse to pull out a bottle of sanitizer. If your hand was not contaminated before, it is now. Then you sanitize your hands, using the contaminated bottle. Now your hands are relatively clean?? So you use your clean hands to place the contaminated bottle back into your contaminated pocket or purse, thereby completely undoing any attempt you made to clean your hands in the first place. Assuming that you have purchased one of the very few (and very expensive) sanitizers that can actually kill viral spores, remember that the minimum "dwell time",  the time required for the wet solution to kill viral spores, is 5 minutes. If you dried your hands or the bottle in fewer than 5 minutes, the sanitizer did not have time to do it's job.

 

Mobile telephones; After pulling your mobile telephone from your contaminated pocket or purse, do you sanitize it? After handling it and pressing it against your face to talk, do you sanitize it? After loaning it to someone else to talk, do you sanitize it?

After passing it around to several others so they can see a photo or video, do you sanitize it? After putting your contaminated telephone back into your contaminated pocket or purse, do you sanitize your hands?

 

If you answered "Yes" to all these questions, did you use a sanitizer that actually kills viral spores? Probably not.

Even if you answered "Yes" and did use a sanitizer that really kills viral spores, did you allow the sanitizer to remain wet, and in contact with the surfaces you wanted to sanitize for at least 5 minutes? If it was less than 5 minutes, you wasted your time and your money - and your hands are still contaminated..

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2 hours ago, Donald said:

The Inspectors and Bacteriologists held many sessions on basic and advanced techniques for preventing virus-related outbreaks.

 

Why is there so much emphasis on washing your hands when answering a call would undo it? Why not replace the hand washing video with one that emphasizes on "eyes, mouth and nose"? 

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Those hand sanitizers came in really handing on the Zuiderdam when the bathroom faucets near the dining room stopped working.

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On 10/15/2019 at 4:25 PM, retafcruiser said:

And probably 1% believe the above poll.

Sorry - totally off topic, but:

 

retafcruiser - I LOVE your furry little avatar!  What a cute little rat.  I had a little mouse living in our Front Desk Closet - he was a cutie.  I'd talk to him when I opened the door.  But, then, one day, he got out of the closet and started wandering the Lobby.  Engineering set out a trap, and, well, that was the end of my little friend.  

 

Back on:  To me, the hand sanitizers just give a false sense of security to people.  I bet most would stop washing because they believe "a little dab will do you."   

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On 10/15/2019 at 11:59 PM, SempreMare said:

there's a franchise of a fast-casual Louisiana based sandwich chain called Newk's nearby.  A thoughtfully designed hand washing station sits at the back center of the dining area, external to the men's and women's restrooms.  

I always wash up at this handwashing station before eating.

We have a Newk's here, and we have eaten there many times.  I've never seen a hand washing station but then I don't even know where the restrooms are.  A hand washing station would be better placed up front, near the entrance where orders are placed, and where customers can see it, IMHO.

Edited by Walfam

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Just left the Westerdam which has sanitizers throughout the ship.  Along with washing your hands everything was fine.

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On 10/16/2019 at 7:18 PM, slidergirl said:

Back on:  To me, the hand sanitizers just give a false sense of security to people.  I bet most would stop washing because they believe "a little dab will do you."   

It's my experience that people who use the hand sanitizers ALSO wash their hands with soap and water quite frequently. The idea is to stay as clean as possible.

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