How Has Cruising Changed: Expectations vs. Luxuries?

[clo]

6 hours ago, ducklite said:

 

So true!  I grew up in a working class home, but we had a copy of Amy Vanderbilt's Complete Book of Etiquette and we were expected to use good manners and proper flatware even when dinner was "Poor Man's" soup/stew and sliced bread from the "day old" store.

 

Working from the outside in and taking cue from the hostess when in doubt aren't difficult concepts, even for children.  

And Mother made a point that if you don't have good table manners at home you won't miraculously have them when you go out.

 And "working from the outside in" couldn't be any easier, could it?  I read/heard once that 'the queen' (?) had a man at her table who drank out of the finger bowl and to not embarrass him she did also.  Always loved that )

 

[SteveH2508]

54 minutes ago, clo said:

<snip> I read/heard once that 'the queen' (?) had a man at her table who drank out of the finger bowl and to not embarrass him she did also.  Always loved that )

 

Generally attributed to Queen Victoria. That is the definition of good manners - to ensure that the person you are with does not feel uncomfortable. Etiquette is a bit different I think - to me it is about what is 'socially acceptable'. Issues like wearing hats indoors for men; when it is acceptable to pick up a bone and chew the meat off; do not wear brown shoes with a blue/grey suit etc..

[clo]

4 minutes ago, SteveH2508 said:

Etiquette is a bit different I think

Oh definitely.  Thanks for the attribution.  Regarding shoe color I seem to be seeing more and more brown shoes with dark suits.*****************  Just checked and sure enough.  Loads of links saying it's fine but how to do it:  https://www.thetrendspotter.net/black-pants-with-brown-shoes/

[SteveH2508]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

Oh definitely.  Thanks for the attribution.  Regarding shoe color I seem to be seeing more and more brown shoes with dark suits.*****************  Just checked and sure enough.  Loads of links saying it's fine but how to do it:  https://www.thetrendspotter.net/black-pants-with-brown-shoes/

What. The. F***?

 

Brown shoes with black trousers and NO SOCKS?😠 It may be 'trendy' - that does not make it right. Proper style will always win through in the end - Savile Row/Jermyn Street classic styles are still going strong after two hundred years.

[clo]

7 minutes ago, SteveH2508 said:

What. The. F***?

 

Brown shoes with black trousers and NO SOCKS?😠 It may be 'trendy' - that does not make it right. Proper style will always win through in the end - Savile Row/Jermyn Street classic styles are still going strong after two hundred years.

LOL.  I think I started noticing it on the Bill Maher show (now THAT labels me !).  Middle aged and older men in conservative dark suits - with socks 🙂 -  in brown shoes.  But as seen in some photos they're not dark brown.  At first I was like you - *****? - but I've become used to it.

 

Oh wait.  Here's something.  No with black.  Okay with navy or grey.

https://savilerowco.com/blog/style-advice/what-colour-shoes-to-wear-with-your-suit/

And I honestly can't remember seeing a black suit.

[SteveH2508]

5 minutes ago, clo said:

LOL.  I think I started noticing it on the Bill Maher show (now THAT labels me !).  Middle aged and older men in conservative dark suits - with socks 🙂 -  in brown shoes.  But as seen in some photos they're not dark brown.  At first I was like you - *****? - but I've become used to it.

 

Oh wait.  Here's something.  No with black.  Okay with navy or grey.

https://savilerowco.com/blog/style-advice/what-colour-shoes-to-wear-with-your-suit/

And I honestly can't remember seeing a black suit.

Black suits are worn by funeral directors and freemasons (slightly tongue-in-cheek).

 

The linked site is trying to sell their wares after all - so being too restrictive is counter-productive.

 

I'm a stick-in-the-mud traditional English old fart so I shall stick with what I was told is right (the only brown shoes I own are deck shoes - which I usually wear with light coloured chinos).

[DarrenM]

20 hours ago, clo said:

Did your family never encourage proper table manners?

No. They had more and better things to worry about. Growing up in 1970s northern england did that to folk.

 

We were lucky to have a fork each.

[clo]

2 minutes ago, SteveH2508 said:

Black suits are worn by funeral directors and freemasons (slightly tongue-in-cheek).

 

The linked site is trying to sell their wares after all - so being too restrictive is counter-productive.

 

I'm a stick-in-the-mud traditional English old fart so I shall stick with what I was told is right (the only brown shoes I own are deck shoes - which I usually wear with light coloured chinos).

Back when my husband still wore suits it was generally navy pin-striped with an oxblood tasseled loafer.

[clo]

1 minute ago, DarrenM said:

They had more and better things to worry about.

My parents were able to multi-task 🙂

[DarrenM]

Oh and brown shows with a blue suit look far better than black shoes.

 

Do people still.wear black shoes? Apart from coach/bus drivers?

[SteveH2508]

2 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

No. They had more and better things to worry about. Growing up in 1970s northern england did that to folk.

 

We were lucky to have a fork each.

Why did a certain Monty Python sketch just pop in to my head?

[DarrenM]

1 minute ago, clo said:

My parents were able to multi-task 🙂

Your parents sound perfect in every way.

[DarrenM]

1 minute ago, SteveH2508 said:

Why did a certain Monty Python sketch just pop in to my head?

It was meant to.

[DarrenM]

I was going to add. We were lucky.

[clo]

Just now, DarrenM said:

Your parents sound perfect in every way.

Far from it.  But growing up in the South in the 50s and 60s things like that were simply part of life.

[DarrenM]

Well I ain't going to sugarcoat how life was like back when I was a kid. 

 

Egg and chips was a luxury.

 

Dinner parties were just something posh families did.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, DarrenM said:

We were lucky to have a fork each.

 

1 hour ago, SteveH2508 said:

Why did a certain Monty Python sketch just pop in to my head?

 

You had a fork??  Luxury!!!!

[DarrenM]

Well when I said fork I meant skinny fingers 

 

But they were forks to us.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Oh definitely.  Thanks for the attribution.  Regarding shoe color I seem to be seeing more and more brown shoes with dark suits.*****************  Just checked and sure enough.  Loads of links saying it's fine but how to do it:  https://www.thetrendspotter.net/black-pants-with-brown-shoes/

 I noticed the CBS dapper weather dude, Lonny Quinn (sp?) wearing shiny light brown (almost orange) shoes with a dark blue suit over his French cuffed shirt with power tie.

 

Realizing that show biz/TV personalities are now our taste-makers, I suppose I will just have to learn to shudder quietly.

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

 I noticed the CBS dapper weather dude, Lonny Quinn (sp?) wearing shiny light brown (almost orange) shoes with a dark blue suit over his French cuffed shirt with power tie.

 

Realizing that show biz/TV personalities are now our taste-makers, I suppose I will just have to learn to shudder quietly.

I met a TV Weatherman on a cruise several years ago who dressed only in purple on the cruise.

[cruznjan]

On 10/10/2019 at 12:41 PM, leaveitallbehind said:

Not to step on Lenny's toes (don't think he'll mind) but to answer from our experience going back to the early 90's - still had decent headliners:

Norm Crosby (my wife and played blackjack with him in the ship's casino between performances)

Merrill Osmond (while not Donny, same family.  Rode with him on an elevator on the way to a performance)

 

There were a couple of others who I cannot recall but were more notable (relative to today's ship's headliners).

 

I was able to take a picture of Vic Damone on a cruise. He was very gracious about posing for me.

[cruznjan]

I miss people dressing for dinner, and men not wearing baseball caps at the table.

[c-boy]

15 minutes ago, cruznjan said:

I miss people dressing for dinner, and men not wearing baseball caps at the table.

awww there's enough of us on Princess to satisfy that yearning

[navybankerteacher]

On 10/12/2019 at 8:20 PM, lenquixote66 said:

I met a TV Weatherman on a cruise several years ago who dressed only in purple on the cruise.

Speaking of purple, my go-to shoes for wearing with a suit of any color (excepting, of course a tuxedo, which calls for plain or patent leather black) are ox-blood, plain toe blucher cordovans - which my younger daughter always insisted were purple.

[ldubs]

Man-oh-man.  Whatever happened to wingtips.  The two tone perforated ones were the best.  😎