Security in Portland, ME. Other US ports.

[TomBeckCruise]

We are on the Zuiderdam on a cruise from Quebec City to Ft. Lauderdale.  Our first US port was today. USCBP folks came aboard to conduct a mandatory face-to-passport inspection. There were extremely long lines, but they moved quickly.  We went to the back of the line in the mainstage theater, and 15 minutes later we spoke with the US Government official in the BB King blues room.

Soon afterwards we left the ship to explore Portland.  All security personnel we saw after leaving the ship were not governmental law enforcement. We had our ships id scanned when we left the ship. We had to show it again to leave the port area along with a governmental picture id. When we returned we again showed both ids and had to go through emptying our pockets, and walking  through a metal detector. The metal detector had a warning sign for pace makers. I had a cardiac defibrillator implanted earlier this year so I was patted down. Thoroughly. 

Should we expect to see more non law enforcement  personnel performing traditional law enforcement tasks at other US ports?  Should I expect to be patted down one or more times daily depending on how many times we go out in each port? We were going out this evening in Portland, not now.  Portland is a great place. 

I don't recall these circumstances in Boston (first US port) or NYC (debarkation port) at the end of our Voyage of the Vikings cruise last year. Did I just miss it? I guess I would not have noticed the pat downs then.  Private security?

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by TomBeckCruise

[3rdGenCunarder]

I don't think I've ever had to show ID or my cruise card to leave a port area, but it's common to have to show both when you enter the port area.

 

Scanning the card going off and on the ship is normal, as is the metal detector when you return. Usually, the metal detector and x-ray of items you're carrying is usually done on the ship, just after you've had your cruise card scanned, although I recall tender ports where this was done portside (sorry, don't remember where, maybe Bermuda). 

 

[Copper10-8]

57 minutes ago, TomBeckCruise said:

We are on the Zuiderdam on a cruise from Quebec City to Ft. Lauderdale.  Our first US port was today. USCBP folks came aboard to conduct a mandatory face-to-passport inspection. There were extremely long lines, but they moved quickly.  We went to the back of the line in the mainstage theater, and 15 minutes later we spoke with the US Government official in the BB King blues room.

Soon afterwards we left the ship to explore Portland.  All security personnel we saw after leaving the ship were not governmental law enforcement. We had our ships id scanned when we left the ship. We had to show it again to leave the port area along with a governmental picture id. When we returned we again showed both ids and had to go through emptying our pockets, and walking  through a metal detector. The metal detector had a warning sign for pace makers. I had a cardiac defibrillator implanted earlier this year so I was patted down. Thoroughly. 

Should we expect to see more non law enforcement  personnel performing traditional law enforcement tasks at other US ports?  Should I expect to be patted down one or more times daily depending on how many times we go out in each port? We were going out this evening in Portland, not now.  Portland is a great place. 

I don't recall these circumstances in Boston (first US port) or NYC (debarkation port) at the end of our Voyage of the Vikings cruise last year. Did I just miss it? I guess I would not have noticed the pat downs then.  Private security?

 

 

 

What you just went through, not counting your CBP inspection, is standard SOP for security on HAL ships post 9/11. That means, when you leave the ship, your ship's I.D. is always scanned by the HAL/ship's security guard at the outbound podium. Doing this registers you in the ship's computer system as having left the ship. When you return, the same process registers you back on the ship. That way, you show back on board and staff will not be looking for you when it comes time to sail.

 

Any security checks outside/off the ship are the prerogative of the local port! They have the right to check your ship's I.D. in addition to a government-issued photo I.D. before letting you back inside their port facility. That's the reason it is always recommended to carry a government-issued photo I.D. when going off the ship in ports. Now, having said that, checking I.D.'s when leaving the port is not done very often but, again, if that's the way they run their port, there is not much that can be done about it. My last experiences were that this is not being done in your remaining ports incl. Ft. Lauderdale/Port Everglades

 

A physical pat-down by ship's security back on the ship is one of two ways it can be ascertained that no weapons and/or contraband is/are being brought back on board IF a passenger elects not to get scanned by the metal detector. Under those circumstances, the other option besides the pat-down, is being screened by ship security by way of hand-held wands which run on batteries. And yes, I fully understand that you don't want to go through a metal detector if you wear a pace maker. All pacemaker-wearing passengers are given that option although, I know several who have elected to go through the metal detector. In tests, the Archway metal detectors have been deemed safe for pacemaker wearers. However, electing not to go through remains your/others choice and prerogative as a pacemaker wearer.  

 

Lastly, some ports, i.e. Ft. Lauderdale, Seattle, Vancouver, etc. run their own security screening with metal detectors and X-Ray machines. If this is the case, and the functionality and screening procedures in those ports, are inspected, and have to be approved and signed off by, the ship's security officer, the ship will stand down their own equipment (metal detectors and X-Ray machines) so as not to duplicate that process

 

Things were different prior to 9/11 

 

Hope you enjoy the remainder of your voyage on Zuidy   

Edited October 14, 2019 by Copper10-8

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

I was on the Zuiderdam the cruise before you and I found it very interesting that we had to show picture ID and cruise card in all the US ports but not the Canadian ones to get back on the ship. I can't remember having to show Picture ID in US ports before.

[TomBeckCruise]

2 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

What you just went through, not counting your CBP inspection, is standard SOP for security on HAL ships post 9/11. That means, when you leave the ship, your ship's I.D. is always scanned by the HAL/ship's security guard at the outbound podium. Doing this registers you in the ship's computer system as having left the ship. When you return, the same process registers you back on the ship. That way, you show back on board and staff will not be looking for you when it comes time to sail.

 

Any security checks outside/off the ship are the prerogative of the local port! They have the right to check your ship's I.D. in addition to a government-issued photo I.D. before letting you back inside their port facility. That's the reason it is always recommended to carry a government-issued photo I.D. when going off the ship in ports. Now, having said that, checking I.D.'s when leaving the port is not done very often but, again, if that's the way they run their port, there is not much that can be done about it. My last experiences were that this is not being done in your remaining ports incl. Ft. Lauderdale/Port Everglades

 

A physical pat-down by ship's security back on the ship is one of two ways it can be ascertained that no weapons and/or contraband is/are being brought back on board IF a passenger elects not to get scanned by the metal detector. Under those circumstances, the other option besides the pat-down, is being screened by ship security by way of hand-held wands which run on batteries. And yes, I fully understand that you don't want to go through a metal detector if you wear a pace maker. All pacemaker-wearing passengers are given that option although, I know several who have elected to go through the metal detector. In tests, the Archway metal detectors have been deemed safe for pacemaker wearers. However, electing not to go through remains your/others choice and prerogative as a pacemaker wearer.  

 

Lastly, some ports, i.e. Ft. Lauderdale, Seattle, Vancouver, etc. run their own security screening with metal detectors and X-Ray machines. If this is the case, and the functionality and screening procedures in those ports, are inspected, and have to be approved and signed off by, the ship's security officer, the ship will stand down their own equipment (metal detectors and X-Ray machines) so as not to duplicate that process

 

Things were different prior to 9/11 

 

Hope you enjoy the remainder of your voyage on Zuidy   

What you said is pretty much what I thought. That is not what happened.

I went through security at the port that included a archway metal detector. Not the ship. The metal detector had a sign on it that said "notify security if you have a pace maker". I did, and I was not given a choice. I received a pat down by private security people. THAT seems odd to me. I have no problem going through a metal detector. I have been through the Zuiderdam detector four times on this cruise, and four times at airports I  the last two months.

I did not see a wand anywhere. Everything I read indicates that the metal detectors are safe as long as you walk through, and do not linger near one. Wands on the other hand can cause problems, especially if held close to the ICD for too long. So what the people there did was safe based on everything I have read.

I am concerned that training is inadequate in Portland, and/or the equipment used in Portland is  possibly old and inadequate.

 

[Floridiana]

3 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

I don't think I've ever had to show ID or my cruise card to leave a port area, but it's common to have to show both when you enter the port area

 

 

We have experienced both in ports outside of the US. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Floridiana

[Copper10-8]

4 hours ago, TomBeckCruise said:

What you said is pretty much what I thought. That is not what happened.

I went through security at the port that included a archway metal detector. Not the ship. The metal detector had a sign on it that said "notify security if you have a pace maker". I did, and I was not given a choice. I received a pat down by private security people. THAT seems odd to me. I have no problem going through a metal detector. I have been through the Zuiderdam detector four times on this cruise, and four times at airports I  the last two months.

I did not see a wand anywhere. Everything I read indicates that the metal detectors are safe as long as you walk through, and do not linger near one. Wands on the other hand can cause problems, especially if held close to the ICD for too long. So what the people there did was safe based on everything I have read.

I am concerned that training is inadequate in Portland, and/or the equipment used in Portland is  possibly old and inadequate.

 

 

I understand from your response what the sign posted on the archway in Portland stated however, you as the wearer of an ICD, should always have the option to choose to go through a metal detector if you so desire. If that option is taken away from you, I would have requested to speak to a port supervisor and/or manager before having undergone that pat-down. Going through a metal detector with an ICD will not harm or cause damage to their screening equipment, so that option should have been made available to you unless they are claiming that their Archway equipment is a danger to ICD wearers in which case they need to replace it with new equipment. If that is the case in Portland, Me. an option available to you re: this incident is to compose a letter when you get home (Toni Doucette, Port Facilities Security Manager, Maine Ports, 212 Cancoa Road, Portland, ME 04103, Ph 207-808-5400) 

 

So Portland, Me. is obviously a port that sets up and provides passenger/crew/visitor, etc. security screening with their own screening equipment, i.e. usually a minimum of two Archway metal detectors and two X-Ray machines. That equipment is run by private/contract security staff who are under contract by the port. You are not going to find sworn law enforcement personnel performing that function and/or any potential pat-down searches.

 

The private/contract security in those ports are trained to operate the equipment and it is all done under the standards and guidelines set by the International Ship and Port Facility Security Code or (ISPS) which itself, falls under SOLAS, the International Convention for the Safety Of Life At Sea. 

 

ISPS dictates responsibilities of governments, shipping companies, shipboard personnel, and port/facility personnel to "detect security threats and take preventative measures against security incidents affecting ships or port facilities used in international trade." It includes the requirement that (private/contract) security personnel are properly trained and that their equipment is properly operated, regularly tested and calibrated, as well as maintained in working condition. All of this is audited, as it is on the ships.

 

When a HAL cruise ship arrives in a port, any port, the first thing the ship's security officer, or SECO, does is meet with his counterpart on land, known as the Port Facility Security Officer or PFSO. They will exchange a security doc, which is counter-signed by both, and spells out each other's responsibilities for the duration of the port call. This includes the security level (I, II or III) of the ship AND in the port and includes the provision who will be responsible for the security screening of passengers/crew/visitors, etc. If the port accepts responsibility of this screening process, as was/is done in Portland and likewise in ports such as Ft. Lauderdale, Seattle, Vancouver, and others, and by private/contract security, the ship will stand down their equipment because it makes no sense to provide security screening in the port terminal and duplicate efforts by doing the exact same thing again 50 to 100 yards away, but now inside the ship. Again, the ship security officer signs off on this, as well as his immediate supervisor, the ship's staff captain.

Unlike U.S. airports, there is no deployment of TSA agents in U.S. ports and, depending on who you talk to, that might just be a good thing because the fine and hardworking TSA agents do not always have the best rep depending on at what U.S. airport you find yourself traveling.  

[chengkp75]

As John has so thoroughly explained, all port security falls under the ISPS code, and since the US is signatory to ISPS (we were the driving force to get it enacted by the IMO after 9-11), ISPS has been enacted into US law.  Each port is responsible for developing their own ISPS plan, and as long as it meets the minimum requirements of ISPS, it is acceptable to the "port state" (US in this case), and is audited by third party auditors for compliance, as well as being audited by the lead government agency for port security (USCG in this case).  Since local law enforcement really has no jurisdiction within the confines of a port, and the USCG does not have the budget to provide security personnel to every terminal in every port in the US, port security is almost universally private security hired by either the terminal operator or the port authority.  

 

And, for clarification, TSA airport screeners are not law enforcement officers.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Thank you both for the information. To many of us arriving at ports on a cruise ship, the variations in procedure make it look like they're making it up as they go along. Good to know there are plans and procedures in place. All we passengers have to do is go with the local plan and follow instructions. 

 

[TomBeckCruise]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

As John has so thoroughly explained, all port security falls under the ISPS code, and since the US is signatory to ISPS (we were the driving force to get it enacted by the IMO after 9-11), ISPS has been enacted into US law.  Each port is responsible for developing their own ISPS plan, and as long as it meets the minimum requirements of ISPS, it is acceptable to the "port state" (US in this case), and is audited by third party auditors for compliance, as well as being audited by the lead government agency for port security (USCG in this case).  Since local law enforcement really has no jurisdiction within the confines of a port, and the USCG does not have the budget to provide security personnel to every terminal in every port in the US, port security is almost universally private security hired by either the terminal operator or the port authority.  

 

And, for clarification, TSA airport screeners are not law enforcement officers

OT

But aren't they govt employees?

For profit security, prisons, etc. injects another layer of potential problems.

 

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, TomBeckCruise said:

OT

But aren't they govt employees?

For profit security, prisons, etc. injects another layer of potential problems.

 

 

I'm assuming you are referring to TSA screeners?  Yes, they are government employees, but have no authority to enforce laws or make arrests.  They will call local law enforcement for that.

 

Not sure what problems private security can inject, since they are subject to requirements set by government agencies, and subject to audits on an annual basis (and possible loss of contract for non-conformity with ISPS).  Cruise ship security is a private, for profit, security service.

Edited October 15, 2019 by chengkp75

[TomBeckCruise]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

I'm assuming you are referring to TSA screeners?  Yes, they are government employees, but have no authority to enforce laws or make arrests.  They will call local law enforcement for that.

 

Not sure what problems private security can inject, since they are subject to requirements set by government agencies, and subject to audits on an annual basis (and possible loss of contract for non-conformity with ISPS).  Cruise ship security is a private, for profit, security service.

That discussion is one of economics and politics. In the US the two are very intertwined, and that discussion  is not appropriate for this website.

Thanks to you folks who are in the know about sailing and security. 

[Quartzsite Cruiser]

12 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

When a HAL cruise ship arrives in a port, any port, the first thing the ship's security officer, or SECO, does is meet with his counterpart on land, known as the Port Facility Security Officer or PFSO. They will exchange a security doc, which is counter-signed by both, and spells out each other's responsibilities for the duration of the port call. This includes the security level (I, II or III) of the ship AND in the port and includes the provision who will be responsible for the security screening of passengers/crew/visitors, etc. If the port accepts responsibility of this screening process, as was/is done in Portland and likewise in ports such as Ft. Lauderdale, Seattle, Vancouver, and others, and by private/contract security, the ship will stand down their equipment because it makes no sense to provide security screening in the port terminal and duplicate efforts by doing the exact same thing again 50 to 100 yards away, but now inside the ship. Again, the ship security officer signs off on this, as well as his immediate supervisor, the ship's staff captain.

John, thanks for the interesting explanation of the security procedures in the various ports. 

 

We appreciate the fact that HAL as a rule does not duplicate the screening procedures carried out in the port.  That being said;, we were on the Veendam this summer, and there were one or two ports where we were screened on shore and on the ship.  Since we did three b2b's and repeated some of the ports, we noticed that the ports that we were double screened in did it on every port call.  Any explanation of why this occurred.  I just never thought to ask the Security Officer about it when we saw him.

 

It was not a big deal since the ship's security personnel were great at moving people along.  Generally, screening on the ship never took very long unless more than one tour or shuttle bus returned at the same time.  Even then, the ship security did their best to move the process along.  Most slowdowns occurred when a passenger forgot to empty their pockets, and had to be rescreened.

[rafinmd]

Was this New England and Canada?  I'm surprised it would happen there.  I've seen it frequently in South America (mostly the same ports on Zaandam, Prinsendam, and Crystal Symphony).

 

Roy

[Quartzsite Cruiser]

23 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

Was this New England and Canada?  I'm surprised it would happen there.  I've seen it frequently in South America (mostly the same ports on Zaandam, Prinsendam, and Crystal Symphony).

 

Roy

No, it was in the Mediterranean.  The one port I remember specifically was Corfu.  Interestingly, in Naples and maybe one other port I can't remember, the port screening was not used, and we went through screening on the ship.  Maybe they did not like the setup in Naples.

 

Our only US port was Bar Harbor, and we had three Canadian ports on the TA to Boston.  If I remember correctly, we did go through screening on shore in Halifax.

[Copper10-8]

50 minutes ago, Quartzsite Cruiser said:

John, thanks for the interesting explanation of the security procedures in the various ports. 

 

We appreciate the fact that HAL as a rule does not duplicate the screening procedures carried out in the port.  That being said;, we were on the Veendam this summer, and there were one or two ports where we were screened on shore and on the ship.  Since we did three b2b's and repeated some of the ports, we noticed that the ports that we were double screened in did it on every port call.  Any explanation of why this occurred.  I just never thought to ask the Security Officer about it when we saw him.

 

It was not a big deal since the ship's security personnel were great at moving people along.  Generally, screening on the ship never took very long unless more than one tour or shuttle bus returned at the same time.  Even then, the ship security did their best to move the process along.  Most slowdowns occurred when a passenger forgot to empty their pockets, and had to be rescreened.

 

It happens, but not that frequently. Possibilities are that port security is only checking 10% of inbound/returning pax which obviously does not guarantee that everyone comes back on board screened. We can't have that! I observed that in Napoli, Italy once, and told my guys/girls to start screening on the ship. It also is done when port security is not working for the entire duration the ship is in port, so ship security has to take over and there is going to be an "overlap" when both are screening.

 

It could have been that the ship's SECO was not happy with the quality of screening by port security. I've seen the port security screener responsible for checking the X-Ray monitor involved on his personal phone and/or the screener responsible for the Archway allowing pax to continue to the ship after that metal detector's alarm was tripped by that same pax. It pays for the ship's SECO to observe what's going on at the port security screening checkpoint. There are some additional reasons for what you observed however, I can't disclose those here on a public site 

[chengkp75]

As John says, it may depend on the port's ISPS plan.  Depending on the MARSEC levels, ports will have different screening levels, and these may not match what the ship has for requirements.

[Quartzsite Cruiser]

8 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

It happens, but not that frequently. Possibilities are that port security is only checking 10% of inbound/returning pax which obviously does not guarantee that everyone comes back on board screened. We can't have that! I observed that in Napoli, Italy once, and told my guys/girls to start screening on the ship. It also is done when port security is not working for the entire duration the ship is in port, so ship security has to take over and there is going to be an "overlap" when both are screening.

 

It could have been that the ship's SECO was not happy with the quality of screening by port security. I've seen the port security screener responsible for checking the X-Ray monitor involved on his personal phone and/or the screener responsible for the Archway allowing pax to continue to the ship after that metal detector's alarm was tripped by that same pax. It pays for the ship's SECO to observe what's going on at the port security screening checkpoint. There are some additional reasons for what you observed however, I can't disclose those here on a public site 

Thanks for the additional information.  I had a feeling that it might be something like that.  The screening in Corfu did seem a little hectic at times, especially since it opened directly into the Duty Free Shop.  I'm not sure how much attention the guys in Naples paid to the Cruise Card as we returned to the ship.

 

BTW, the security guys and gals on the Veendam were great.

 

Lenda

Edited October 15, 2019 by Quartzsite Cruiser

[mamaofami]

Thank you John for your detailed explanation of the security measures to keep us safe.