Norwegian Star misses Dubrovnik on 2/11 with technical issues

[Mimimatz]

What is wrong with this ship?!

[The Wanderer_112358]

What is the latest status of the ship?

[mugtech]

On 11/5/2019 at 2:04 PM, cruiseanon32 said:

Does this endanger upcoming sailings including the TA, Barcelona to Miami?

Probably be slower, miss some ports, cut down port time in others.  Evidently the TA is sold out, not available on the website.

[The Wanderer_112358]

1 hour ago, mugtech said:

Probably be slower, miss some ports, cut down port time in others.  Evidently the TA is sold out, not available on the website.

 

I'm ok with some missed ports.  Most of the TA days are Sea Days anyway.

 

I just don't want the voyage delayed or even cancelled.

 

I am surprised that the ship would attempt to do a TA with one dead engine.

 

When does the ship find time to do the engine replacement?

[Motegi]

26 minutes ago, The Wanderer_112358 said:

 

I'm ok with some missed ports.  Most of the TA days are Sea Days anyway.

 

I just don't want the voyage delayed or even cancelled.

 

I am surprised that the ship would attempt to do a TA with one dead engine.

 

When does the ship find time to do the engine replacement?

 

Extensive engine work would require a drydock service and would probably take weeks.  

 

Sadly, although we really liked the Star, she experienced propulsion system issues that resulted in alteration of the schedule when we were on board in 2015.  

 

If you do a google search you will see that the Star has had multiple propulsion related issues over the years.  More than the other NCL ships and it's sister, the NCL Dawn.  

Edited November 10, 2019 by Motegi

[Motegi]

Here's a video of a cruise ship engine crankshaft replacement:

https://bangshift.com/bangshiftxl/watching-crew-remove-replace-7-5-ton-cruise-ship-engine-crankshaft-amazing/

 

Here's an interesting discussion from another forum on the topic:

https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-do-they-replace-an-engine-in-a-modern-mega-cruise-ship/16504

[The Wanderer_112358]

8 minutes ago, Motegi said:

 

Extensive engine work would require a drydock service and would probably take weeks.  

 

Sadly, although we really liked the Star, she experienced propulsion system issues that resulted in alteration of the schedule when we were on board in 2015.  

 

If you do a google search you will see that the Star has had multiple propulsion related issues over the years.  More than the other NCL ships and it's sister, the NCL Dawn.  

 

Well, sooner or later the ship will have to come out of service to replace the dead engine and I believe from what I have read that means cutting the hull to remove and replace that bad engine. No quick turn around.

 

The question is, do you do it now while in Europe or later while in the U.S.

 

[The Wanderer_112358]

12 minutes ago, Motegi said:

Here's a video of a cruise ship engine crankshaft replacement:

https://bangshift.com/bangshiftxl/watching-crew-remove-replace-7-5-ton-cruise-ship-engine-crankshaft-amazing/

 

Here's an interesting discussion from another forum on the topic:

https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-do-they-replace-an-engine-in-a-modern-mega-cruise-ship/16504

 

I'm watching the video now. Very interesting.

[don't-use-real-name]

Interested reading about the STAR (and DAWN class ships):

 

From Wikipedia:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Star

 

General characteristics
Class and type:	Dawn-class cruise ship
Tonnage:	91,740 GT[2] 61,087 NT[2] 7,500 DWT[2]
Length:	294.13 m (965 ft)[2]
Beam:	32.2 m (105.6 ft)[2]
Draft:	8.2 m (27 ft)[2]
Decks:	15
Installed power:	4 × MAN B&W 14V48/60 (4 × 14,700 kW)
Propulsion:	Diesel-electric Two ABB Azipod units (2 × 19,500 kW) Three bow thrusters (3 × 2,390 kW)
Speed:	24.6 knots (45.6 km/h; 28.3 mph)
Capacity:	2,348 passengers
Crew:	1,031         The STAR is propelled by 2 Azipod electrical propellors (image photo below from Dry Dock at Portland OR circa 2015)   The 4 diesel electric engines furnish the power to turn the 2 electrical propellors as well as furnish all the electrical power to the ship (lights camera action etc.)   So presume with reduced electrical output the speed of the STAR is going to be compromised - put all the power to the engines and there may not be enough for warm meals in the galley and dining tables and other than emergency lighting.   Our resident member Chief Engineer: chengkp75 May expound on this for a better explanation.

[Mimimatz]

That may explain why she went at 17 knots at night and at around 13 knots at daytime during the day at sea yesterday from Argostoli to Venice.

 

Btw: her next scheduled stop ist Bar, Montenegro. Not unusual (due to missing Kotor many times they always replaced it with a technical stop at Bar). But: this time the arrival time is 5:30 AM and not in the evening. This means that at least one stop (probably Dubrovnik) will be canceled.

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, Motegi said:

 

Extensive engine work would require a drydock service and would probably take weeks.  

 

Sadly, although we really liked the Star, she experienced propulsion system issues that resulted in alteration of the schedule when we were on board in 2015.  

 

If you do a google search you will see that the Star has had multiple propulsion related issues over the years.  More than the other NCL ships and it's sister, the NCL Dawn.  

No, "extensive" engine work would not require a drydock.  I didn't follow the second link very far, but I know of instances like the Oasis of the Seas, where they cut out the bottom of the ship and lowered the entire engine out, but that was for a warranty engine replacement.  Things like the crankshaft replacement (I can't watch the videos on our internet), can be done in many cases without cutting into the ship at all.  I know a HAL ship did one last year.  As I stated earlier in the thread, my supposition is that one engine was already torn down for overhaul (everything but the crankshaft taken out, and even then the crankshaft bearings are replaced one at a time), which happens every 12k running hours (about 2 years), when the second engine failed.  How extensive the failure of the second engine is, I don't know, so I can't guess how long to repair.  If in fact, one engine was already down for overhaul, that takes about 4 weeks to complete, but again we don't know when that was started.  Because these overhauls are done on a routine basis, ship's itineraries are planned with the reduced power in mind when the overhaul is scheduled, so the ship sails around with only 3 working diesel engines for a month, and no one is any the wiser.

 

The Star's propulsion problems relate to her Azipods, not her diesel generators, and unfortunately, most of the cruising public lump both the "propulsion system" and the "power generation system" into "propulsion problems".

 

To expound on "real name's" post, the 4 diesel generators generate electrical power that is used for every service on the ship, there are no "dedicated" propulsion engines, or hotel engines.  For the Star, about half of one engine's power is used for the hotel load (7-8 Mw), and at the pier, that engine is running at a light load.  Once they start to get underway, they will start more diesel engines to generate more power, the number started depending on how fast the ship needs to go.  You will notice that the Star's total generating capacity (all 4 engines) is 58.8 Mw, while the two Azipods, running at 100% are only 39 Mw.  Add in the 8 Mw of hotel load, and the maximum power required is only 47 Mw, or 80% of the total capacity, which is about normal.  With one diesel engine out, the maximum power drops to 44.1 Mw, and using the industry standard of 80% of max power and taking out the hotel load, you are left with 27.3 Mw available for propulsion.  This is 70% of rated power on the Azipods, and will give the ship around 80% speed, or about 20 knots.  If she can't go above 17 knots (and I don't know this for sure, or whether that is just the speed needed to make the schedule), then it really looks like two engines are out.

[4774Papa]

Time to retire the Star.

[Clay Clayton]

For what it’s worth, I believe Star’s transatlantic was done while one generator was being rebuilt. Prior to our departure from Rome we were informed of  a slight schedule change involving our stop in Barcelona-rather than arriving on our 3rd morning, we would instead arrive early evening on Day 2 and not depart until late evening on Day 3 rather than 5pm so that the ship could undergo “routine” maintenance. 

 

Apparently a new crankshaft had to be installed which entailed removing a section of the hull. There were engineers aboard from the generator company and they had hoped to depart in Funchal but the work wasn’t completed so they stayed aboard. 

 

If you want to read more about it, my blog post is here:http://cruisinwithclay.com/2018/11/06/theres-a-hole-in-our-ship/

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Clay Clayton

[The Wanderer_112358]

22 minutes ago, Clay Clayton said:

For what it’s worth, I believe Star’s transatlantic was done while one generator was being rebuilt.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I'm confused.

 

The Star hasn't done it's transatlantic voyage yet.  The Star 14 day transatlantic trip begins Nov 22 from Barcelona to Miami.

[Clay Clayton]

Sorry, I failed to say “last November’s (2018) transatlantic”. 

 

Sorry for any confusion! 😱😜

[The Wanderer_112358]

19 minutes ago, Clay Clayton said:

Sorry, I failed to say “last November’s (2018) transatlantic”. 

 

Sorry for any confusion! 😱😜

 

I wonder if that is the same engine that died this time...

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer_112358 said:

 

I wonder if that is the same engine that died this time...

Crankshaft replacements are pretty rare occurrences.  

[The Wanderer_112358]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Crankshaft replacements are pretty rare occurrences.  

 

chengkp75, have you had any updates on what this recent failure really was and how serious the damage really is?  I don't think we know if the new problem is an engine issue. Is that right?

 

Thanks.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer_112358 said:

 

chengkp75, have you had any updates on what this recent failure really was and how serious the damage really is?  I don't think we know if the new problem is an engine issue. Is that right?

 

Thanks.

I don't know what the exact issue was, but someone onboard was told it was a diesel engine that failed, but how bad a failure, again, don't know.

 

Then again, the number of times the front of house staff give the passengers wrong information on technical items is just mind boggling.

Edited November 10, 2019 by chengkp75

[The Wanderer_112358]

12 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't know what the exact issue was, but someone onboard was told it was a diesel engine that failed, but how bad a failure, again, don't know.

 

Then again, the number of times the front of house staff give the passengers wrong information on technical items is just mind boggling.

 

True.

[BaWBarmy]

I got off the Star yesterday (10th November) we were officially told of a "technical issue" and unofficially told it was due to an engine fire, this came from disembarking passengers on 3rd November. We received notification of the itinerary change by e-mail, in our case at 10:30 pm on 2nd November whilst enjoying a meal in Venice.

 

The itinerary changes were that we would stop in Split at midday on the first full day, rather than Kotor at 1:00 pm, Split is closer to Venice than Kotor. Second day would now be Dubrovnik, this was scheduled to be the last port of call, but we would now be there for a full day, this is not necessarily a good thing. The next day was now supposed to be Bar to get our fix of Montenegro and also because it is a relatively short trip from Dubrovnik, as it happened we didn't get into Bar due to a combination of poor weather and the unspecified "technical issue" and so we carried on to Corfu the next morning. The day after we were in Argostolli (Kefalonia) this was the highlight of the cruise for me. We then had a sea day and arrived in Venice on time on Sunday morning.

 

The two furthest ports of call had been dropped. The distances between ports of call had been made as short as possible. Interestingly the behind the scenes ship tour was confined to the theatre and the galley.

[don't-use-real-name]

1 hour ago, BaWBarmy said:

I got off the Star yesterday (10th November) we were officially told of a "technical issue" and unofficially told it was due to an engine fire, this came from disembarking passengers on 3rd November. We received notification of the itinerary change by e-mail, in our case at 10:30 pm on 2nd November whilst enjoying a meal in Venice.

 

The itinerary changes were that we would stop in Split at midday on the first full day, rather than Kotor at 1:00 pm, Split is closer to Venice than Kotor. Second day would now be Dubrovnik, this was scheduled to be the last port of call, but we would now be there for a full day, this is not necessarily a good thing. The next day was now supposed to be Bar to get our fix of Montenegro and also because it is a relatively short trip from Dubrovnik, as it happened we didn't get into Bar due to a combination of poor weather and the unspecified "technical issue" and so we carried on to Corfu the next morning. The day after we were in Argostolli (Kefalonia) this was the highlight of the cruise for me. We then had a sea day and arrived in Venice on time on Sunday morning.

 

The two furthest ports of call had been dropped. The distances between ports of call had been made as short as possible. Interestingly the behind the scenes ship tour was confined to the theatre and the galley.

 

Interestingly the behind the scenes ship tour was confined to the theatre and the galley.

 

The BST (Behind Scenes Tours) whether the paid or Platinum do not include the engine room or the Bridge normally !

The fumes and noise in the engine room areas are not guest user friendly and as for the Bridge security restrictions !

 

What was missing from your BST is the laundry facility and walk through I95 to see a brief view of crew areas. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, don't-use-real-name said:

 

Interestingly the behind the scenes ship tour was confined to the theatre and the galley.

 

The BST (Behind Scenes Tours) whether the paid or Platinum do not include the engine room or the Bridge normally !

The fumes and noise in the engine room areas are not guest user friendly and as for the Bridge security restrictions !

 

What was missing from your BST is the laundry facility and walk through I95 to see a brief view of crew areas. 

They used to go to the Engine Control Room, however.

[HBCcruiser]

13 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

They used to go to the Engine Control Room, however.

Why do Princess and HAL include the Engine Control Room and the Bridge on their Behind the Scenes tours yet NCL does not? 

[BaWBarmy]

57 minutes ago, don't-use-real-name said:

 

Interestingly the behind the scenes ship tour was confined to the theatre and the galley.

 

The BST (Behind Scenes Tours) whether the paid or Platinum do not include the engine room or the Bridge normally !

The fumes and noise in the engine room areas are not guest user friendly and as for the Bridge security restrictions !

 

What was missing from your BST is the laundry facility and walk through I95 to see a brief view of crew areas. 

 

There was no access to I95 at the time we were doing the tour, something to do with it being blocked off by engineering temporarily.