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Check my math ...


bhughey
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6 minutes ago, Alsmez said:

 

Though I have never canceled a cruise once booked, I always book a refundable fare because we never know what might come up at work, etc., until a few months before the date of travel. That said, if Celebrity wants to discourage this behavior, there has to be a better way than inflating prices so ridiculously. IMO, they would be better off making the non-refundable fare MORE attractive (by giving non-refundable pax a better deal on drinks/perks, offering additional OBC, etc.) - encourage the behavior you want instead of trying to trick customers into paying more!

All I want is a refundable deposit with no perks or the lowest price with a refundable deposit. I'm willing to pay a cancellation fee but not willing to give up a $900 deposit just because life happened. I will just buy the drink package. Having to pay more for a cruise than the value of the add on's is ridiculous just to get a refundable deposit. Their product is not unique and with all of the changes across the industry these cruise lines are more alike now than different. 

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2 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

All I want is a refundable deposit with no perks or the lowest price with a refundable deposit. I'm willing to pay a cancellation fee but not willing to give up a $900 deposit just because life happened. I will just buy the drink package. Having to pay more for a cruise than the value of the add on's is ridiculous just to get a refundable deposit. Their product is not unique and with all of the changes across the industry these cruise lines are more alike now than different. 

Well said...

except we have no real need to buy a package for drinks,  only  ever took it b/c it was a  booking perk. There's alot of  extras for E +.

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it's scary to me how much prices have gone up, plus the fees.  we booked this exact cruise 4 months ago and we paid just over 4600 total with all 4 perks for a 1A veranda.  now almost 2000 more.  same goes for our 12 day on equinox next november.  

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1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

All I want is a refundable deposit with no perks or the lowest price with a refundable deposit.

 

Now that you say that, I went back to look at my own post on this topic from a few days ago. On my May 21 2020 Alaska sailing, the refundable deposit with no perks WAS an option (the perks were priced at $160 more than the base Best Value fare plus $224 for the drink package surcharge):

 

image.thumb.png.f6fc524f3ac4afd4caa899dae442ed39.png

 

However, as of today, that is no longer an option for that sailing - now I see this:

 

image.thumb.png.62591762936f6c63fa7fcef2713a79b6.png

 

image.thumb.png.bb619c53c1d4bd1e5dca82f0da21ceeb.png

 

I wonder why the unbundled offer suddenly disappeared??????? :classic_rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, Alsmez said:

 

Actually no, according to their terms and conditions once the deposit is paid it can only be refunded (less the $100pp penalty) in the form of Future Cruise Credit, to be used within one year. So once you have given them the money, it really is use it or lose it, and Celebrity is therefore free to make use of it without worrying they will have to give it back.

Thanks.  

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Sophisticated revenue software is behind all pricing. The logarithm is dynamic- changing up or down- depending on bookings. They will fill the ships, and probably not at a loss, under normal circumstances.

Option is the same as non-refundable hotel or airfare.  Book at your comfort level and forget that somebody got it cheaper on another day under different rules.

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9 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

But as others have pointed out, there are occasions where the prices have been reduced and we rebook under a new cheaper deal.  I think you would get hit with this penalty every time you re-booked.

 

I dug up the information from Celebrity regarding price drops with non-refundable fares - no change fee. Also no change fee to upgrade your room on the same sailing. Fee applies only if you change sailings or cancel entirely (see item 4 below). This is from an old-ish link but I assume the rules still apply:

http://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Celebrity/General_Info/CEL-Non-RefundableFAQs_Trade.pdf

 

image.png.6dcc53910b107f49dd21ffaa4bf92334.png

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49 minutes ago, Alsmez said:

 

I dug up the information from Celebrity regarding price drops with non-refundable fares - no change fee. Also no change fee to upgrade your room on the same sailing. Fee applies only if you change sailings or cancel entirely (see item 4 below). This is from an old-ish link but I assume the rules still apply:

http://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Celebrity/General_Info/CEL-Non-RefundableFAQs_Trade.pdf

 

image.png.6dcc53910b107f49dd21ffaa4bf92334.png

 

Thanks for the correction.

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So now computers are running the show on pricing?

 

The whole thing is over my head,  and at this point too much to wrestle with..

Hoping by our next booking things get more simple but they never seem to go in that direction. Do travel agents have the best choice formulas?

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2 hours ago, jimmieg said:

Sophisticated revenue software is behind all pricing. The logarithm is dynamic- changing up or down- depending on bookings.

 

True, but an actual person or people at the top had to decide to create this byzantine non-refundable vs. refundable vs. refundable with perks structure. Whether one paid more than the next cruiser for the same cruise is not the issue here; the deception and obfuscation are. 

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9 minutes ago, Alsmez said:

 

True, but an actual person or people at the top had to decide to create this byzantine non-refundable vs. refundable vs. refundable with perks structure. Whether one paid more than the next cruiser for the same cruise is not the issue here; the deception and obfuscation are. 

I'm missing the deception. Yes, not as straight-forward as it could be. But it's marketing.  You should only pay what something is worth to you.

 

Here's how I research a cruise to take hype out, FWIW:

 

I use a spreadsheet to list price, taxes/fees/ value of perks(as I value them!) vs purchasing what I want/OBC.

Then I look at bottom line and make my choice.

 

I have columns for direct booking, a big box store, a couple discount websites and several for competing cruise bids I might see.

 

I've made a template and so actual entry of data is all I do. Obviously the thrill of the hunt is a hobby for me.😉

 

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Just now, jimmieg said:

Yes, not as straight-forward as it could be. But it's marketing.  You should only pay what something is worth to you.

 

IMO, charging more than retail for the drink package/other perks by including them in the refundable deposit price (and not making them removable) is deceptive. It forces the consumer to run multiple scenarios and do extra research to find out what the retail cost of various add-ons are, whether they can be purchased with the various fare options, etc. Like you, I love a good spreadsheet so this is something I would do anyway, but many people need/want prices spelled out in simple terms so they can make an educated decision easily. I would be livid to find that I paid $500+ more than retail for something marketed as a "perk" simply because I didn't know I needed to research 20 different permutations of my booking before hitting the purchase button.

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8 hours ago, jimmieg said:

I'm missing the deception. Yes, not as straight-forward as it could be. But it's marketing.  You should only pay what something is worth to you.

 

Here's how I research a cruise to take hype out, FWIW:

 

I use a spreadsheet to list price, taxes/fees/ value of perks(as I value them!) vs purchasing what I want/OBC.

Then I look at bottom line and make my choice.

 

I have columns for direct booking, a big box store, a couple discount websites and several for competing cruise bids I might see.

 

I've made a template and so actual entry of data is all I do. Obviously the thrill of the hunt is a hobby for me.😉

 

 

 

I think you are missing the point, it doesn’t matter how many spreadsheets you construct, if you want a refundable deposit then you have to take their perks whether you want them or not (irrespective of the value to you). In some instances, when you do the maths, you are being charged more than the retail value - not the value to you - for those perks. Yes, marketing as you say, but deceptive in the process.

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Could someone post an easy template..dh will now be the booking agent for us!

 

We used to just pick our ship and itin/ date, book AQ class with the 2 perks.( classic alc and OBC or tips)...refundable fare.    Done.

 

We have decided we  will no longer pay the extra alc fee for Classic but still want refundable.  One reason we have not booked Azamara is the cancellation fee policy,

 

We do not chase bargains but do not like getting taken advantage of in the new  Celebrity priciing scheme of things

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1 hour ago, hcat said:

We have decided we  will no longer pay the extra alc fee for Classic but still want refundable.

 

In that case it is highly likely that you will pay MUCH more than the retail cost of the perks in order to get the refundable fare. Take the pricing on the OP's cruise: $1540 non-refundable no perks or $2381 refundable two perks. That's a difference of $841pp. The tips plus OBC are worth less than $300pp on a 7-9 day cruise. I know a refundable fare has value, but is it worth over $500pp when the fee to change is only $100pp?

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14 hours ago, Alsmez said:

 

In that case it is highly likely that you will pay MUCH more than the retail cost of the perks in order to get the refundable fare. Take the pricing on the OP's cruise: $1540 non-refundable no perks or $2381 refundable two perks. That's a difference of $841pp. The tips plus OBC are worth less than $300pp on a 7-9 day cruise. I know a refundable fare has value, but is it worth over $500pp when the fee to change is only $100pp?

 

I agree but cannot see much logic in the whole new fare structure..hoping it all goes away by the time we book again..

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15 hours ago, hcat said:

Could someone post an easy template..dh will now be the booking agent for us!

 

We used to just pick our ship and itin/ date, book AQ class with the 2 perks.( classic alc and OBC or tips)...refundable fare.    Done.

 

We have decided we  will no longer pay the extra alc fee for Classic but still want refundable.  One reason we have not booked Azamara is the cancellation fee policy,

 

We do not chase bargains but do not like getting taken advantage of in the new  Celebrity priciing scheme of things

Just book the current Veterans Day all 4 perks plus 10% back in OBC if that fits what you want.  

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Yes I was,  but seems our prior approach is no longer the best one   Have decided not to book anything right now and not sure what we'll do onboard next week.

 

They get to hold onto the deposit money for many months ahead of the cruise..and then want more if you cancel. A  good deal for them.

 

Thanks to everyone for all the assistance and perspectives!

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On 11/6/2019 at 2:18 PM, jimmieg said:

I'm missing the deception. Yes, not as straight-forward as it could be. But it's marketing.  You should only pay what something is worth to you.

 

Here's how I research a cruise to take hype out, FWIW:

 

I use a spreadsheet to list price, taxes/fees/ value of perks(as I value them!) vs purchasing what I want/OBC.

Then I look at bottom line and make my choice.

 

I have columns for direct booking, a big box store, a couple discount websites and several for competing cruise bids I might see.

 

I've made a template and so actual entry of data is all I do. Obviously the thrill of the hunt is a hobby for me.😉

 

That's exactly what I do too!  I'm guessing engineer or accountant 😀.  I'm educated as the former, but spent most of my working life doing other stuff.

 

 

we've done several other lines but doing our first Celebrity cruise this Friday on the Edge.  Booked thru an online TA including OBC and drink package.  Looking forward to it!

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51 minutes ago, WhiteRockMike said:

That's exactly what I do too!  I'm guessing engineer or accountant 😀.  I'm educated as the former, but spent most of my working life doing other stuff.

 

 

we've done several other lines but doing our first Celebrity cruise this Friday on the Edge.  Booked thru an online TA including OBC and drink package.  Looking forward to it!

Might be a likely guess, but pretty much the opposite.  I think I picked up those skills out of necessity.  But, they've served me well in a number of areas. Including taking more cruises.😉

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On 11/5/2019 at 4:26 PM, bhughey said:

Yes, this is another "I don't get the pricing structure" post. Not posting for clarification on anything, just more or less to commiserate. So, I ran pricing for a 10-night cruise on the Equinox May 13, 2020. After choosing a veranda guarantee, I priced out the two options:

Option 1: $1540pp ($1409 + $131 taxes/fees pp), non refundable deposit, no "perks". Total cost for two including taxes = $3,080. (*bonus offer, $100pp OBC)

Option 2: $2381pp ($2250 + $131 in taxes/fees pp), refundable deposit, choose two "perks" - of which, I chose the classic drink package and $300 obc. CDP "perk" is additional $280. Total for two cost including taxes  = $5,042.


That's a difference of $1,962 in hard costs. If I were to purchase the CDP outright for two persons - the total cost including gratuity is $1,416.
So essentially - the purchaser is overpaying for the "perks" option by $546 - or $246 depending on if you add in the value of the $300 obc.

Perhaps I am asking for clarification (??) because this seems downright ridiculous.

 

 

 

I was looking at this over last few days and wondered the same thing to myself.  You're paying more for the "free" perks than if you took the lowest rate with no perks and purchased the perks you wanted a la carte on many sailings I priced.  You always have to do the math and compare the different package prices.  And now with having to pay the surcharge on the CDP perk, on a number of sailings I looked at, you may as well take the 4-Perks option instead of 2 Perk with one being the CDP.

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