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travellgirl

Oasis of the Seas, how long in Cape Liberty?

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Does anyone know how long Oasis of the Seas will be leaving from Cape Liberty?   I believe it’s coming in May of 2020, but didn’t know for how long 

thanks

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3 minutes ago, travellgirl said:

Does anyone know how long Oasis of the Seas will be leaving from Cape Liberty?   I believe it’s coming in May of 2020, but didn’t know for how long 

thanks

Oct 25 is the last cruise from cape Liberty

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We are booked on that cruise and didn't realize that its the last out of Cape Liberty. I assumed there is a repositioning cruise immediately after we return however if  there is I can't find it on the RC website. Would they cruise back to Florida empty?

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7 minutes ago, Jcol5786 said:

We are booked on that cruise and didn't realize that its the last out of Cape Liberty. I assumed there is a repositioning cruise immediately after we return however if  there is I can't find it on the RC website. Would they cruise back to Florida empty?

 

They might, it's been done before.

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23 minutes ago, Jcol5786 said:

We are booked on that cruise and didn't realize that its the last out of Cape Liberty. I assumed there is a repositioning cruise immediately after we return however if  there is I can't find it on the RC website. Would they cruise back to Florida empty?

 

They have to go empty to Bayonne and back to Florida empty.  The PVSA or Passenger Vessels Service Act does not allow transporting passengers between U.S. ports unless the cruise is closed loop (same start and end with a near foreign port) or the itinerary includes a distant foreign port.  The ABC islands qualify as distant foreign as do some Central American ports.  Puerto Rico has a waiver in PVSA allowing repositioning cruises to the U.S. mainland.

 

This is the same reason why Hawaii cruises start in Vancouver.  They can't start in Seattle and end in Hawaii.  

 

At any rate Oasis has to go empty when repositioning to or from Bayonne.  This costs them millions in lost revenue when the ship is empty of guests for several days, so I'm not sure we'll see it as a regular feature in Bayonne.  They are basically taking the ship out of service for the equivalent of nearly two complete cruises and that is a significant hit on the balance sheet.  

 

Same when Harmony moved from Port Everglades to Port Canaveral.  Same when Allure moved from Miami to Port Everglades.  They were empty.

 

If the Oasis in Bayonne isn't a successful trial that covers the cost of the repositioning they'll likely not repeat it.   

Edited by twangster

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59 minutes ago, Jcol5786 said:

We are booked on that cruise and didn't realize that its the last out of Cape Liberty. I assumed there is a repositioning cruise immediately after we return however if  there is I can't find it on the RC website. Would they cruise back to Florida empty?

Yes it will be empty because of the Jones act. Are you on the roll call? We have a nice group going on that date...also the cruise critic meet and greet is available for sign up, last I checked we had 16 already signed up. 
 

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50 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

They have to go empty to Bayonne and back to Florida empty.  The PVSA or Passenger Vessels Service Act does not allow transporting passengers between U.S. ports unless the cruise is closed loop (same start and end with a near foreign port) or the itinerary includes a distant foreign port.  The ABC islands qualify as distant foreign as do some Central American ports.  Puerto Rico has a waiver in PVSA allowing repositioning cruises to the U.S. mainland.

 

This is the same reason why Hawaii cruises start in Vancouver.  They can't start in Seattle and end in Hawaii.  

 

At any rate Oasis has to go empty when repositioning to or from Bayonne.  This costs them millions in lost revenue when the ship is empty of guests for several days, so I'm not sure we'll see it as a regular feature in Bayonne.  They are basically taking the ship out of service for the equivalent of nearly two complete cruises and that is a significant hit on the balance sheet.  

 

Same when Harmony moved from Port Everglades to Port Canaveral.  Same when Allure moved from Miami to Port Everglades.  They were empty.

 

If the Oasis in Bayonne isn't a successful trial that covers the cost of the repositioning they'll likely not repeat it.   

They are not losing money by leaving out of Jersey, the higher rates reflect the repositioning days. All you have to do is compare Oasis pricing from Florida vs New Jersey and you will see the difference.

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8 minutes ago, Casino Comp Chick said:

Yes it will be empty because of the Jones act. 

Jones act for cargo, PVSA for passenger ships.

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12 minutes ago, Casino Comp Chick said:

They are not losing money by leaving out of Jersey, the higher rates reflect the repositioning days. All you have to do is compare Oasis pricing from Florida vs New Jersey and you will see the difference.

You can’t compare Oasis sailing out of NJ in the summer to her sailing out of Florida in the winter.  Two entirely different seasons with summer being the most expensive. If you compare Oasis to Symphony or Harmony during the summer months Oasis is priced lower every single week and by a fair bit.  I know Harmony and Symphony are newer but Oasis will be less than a year out of a $160 million dry dock and I would have though she would have commanded higher prices.  

 

Anytime a ship sails empty they have lost potential revenue.  I’m sure the bean counters have looked at this numerous ways with potential repos from Canada or visiting an ABC island taking into account the length of voyage, fuel costs and projected revenue and figured that the sailing empty was the outcome that would lose them the least potential revenue.  

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23 minutes ago, Casino Comp Chick said:

They are not losing money by leaving out of Jersey, the higher rates reflect the repositioning days. All you have to do is compare Oasis pricing from Florida vs New Jersey and you will see the difference.

 

Assuming they fill the ship at those rates and don't have to discount as they get closer to fill the ship.  

 

Time will tell.

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9 minutes ago, twangster said:

Time will tell.

Another tell would be if any O class is scheduled for NJ again in '21.

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The NCL Encore arrived into Miami when I boarded Empress 2 days ago.  She was empty of guests.  It was strange seeing a new ship empty of guests.  No one was at the railings to see her inaugural call into her new home port.  

 

When I researched her she had completed a transatlantic into New York as a revenue sailing.  Then she had to sail empty from New York to Miami.  That took her 3 days, the same that Oasis has a for a break on her schedule.

 

Using revenue figures from cruisemarketwatch.com in 2018 Harmony had $485M in revenue.  Allure was $422M, Oasis $404M.  Average those since Oasis will be AMPED and the average Oasis class revenue for the full 2018 year was $437M or $1.19M per day (Symphony didn't have a full year in 2018 so I excluded her).  Six days of repo (3 North, 3 South) without guests equates to a loss of $7.18M in revenue.  They still have to pay and feed the crew, they still burn fuel all 8 days, they still have things like pilots and other fees to pay. 

 

Round it up and call it a $8M repo as a SWAG.  

 

She has 175 revenue days in Bayonne.  That means she has to make up ~$45,000 per day to reflect the cost to place her in Bayonne. 

 

Another way to look at.  Let's be generous and say she averages 6,500 guests per sailing.  There are 25 sailings from Bayonne.  She has to make up $320k per sailing to pay for the repo.  That's only ~$49 per guest.  For the typical cruise couple that's an extra ~$100.  For a family of four ~$200.  That is what they have to charge to make up for the repo as a SWAG.

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Thanks for the explanations around the empty sailings, I forgot about that rule. Looking forward to this last cruise and of NJ for the season. I wonder how the crew will be? Might be the time when a lot of contracts end and new crew join the ship for her new set of trips from Florida.

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3 hours ago, twangster said:

Same when Harmony moved from Port Everglades to Port Canaveral.  Same when Allure moved from Miami to Port Everglades.  They were empty.

 

 

Those two ships moved in one day, never skipped a beat.

 

I'm guessing Oasis goes back to NJ for summer 21, then does a long repo to Galveston.

 

But that's just a guess.

 

I'm also guessing that Oasis will be the only one of the big girls to ever do NJ. No need to make stack modifications to all of them.

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1 hour ago, John&LaLa said:

I'm also guessing that Oasis will be the only one of the big girls to ever do NJ. No need to make stack modifications to all of them.

 

I was wondering about that as well. The retractable stacks seems like a waste of money and effort for just one season of NJ cruising (25 cruises).

 

Does anyone know how much that cost as it should be added to @twangster 320K per sailing calculations above?

 

My guess is that they are planning for more NJ sailings down the road. Not sure if there are any other ports with low bridges she could fit under, even with the new bendable stacks.

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1 hour ago, John&LaLa said:

I'm also guessing that Oasis will be the only one of the big girls to ever do NJ. No need to make stack modifications to all of them.

We will find out in 6 months when Allure goes in. 

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6 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

We will find out in 6 months when Allure goes in. 

 

I'll ask when I'm on the crossing

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There are conceivably other ports in the world that might benefit from retractable stacks. 

 

The Suez Canal for example also has a bridge.  That would likely be the route to reach Australia and we all know they are promoting the concept of Oasis class down under.  

 

I doubt they would allocate 100% of the cost for retractable stacks to one season in Bayonne.  

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I am searching my admittedly swiss cheese-y memory, and recalling this:

 

On the bridge tour of the Symphony, the guide told us that Symphony's stacks are retractable.

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Oasis and Allure had retractable stacks.  They used that feature and squat to clear the Great Belt bridge.  They later added scrubbing features that were fixed in place making the stacks no longer retractable. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by twangster

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5 hours ago, twangster said:

 

They have to go empty to Bayonne and back to Florida empty.  The PVSA or Passenger Vessels Service Act does not allow transporting passengers between U.S. ports unless the cruise is closed loop (same start and end with a near foreign port) or the itinerary includes a distant foreign port.  The ABC islands qualify as distant foreign as do some Central American ports.  Puerto Rico has a waiver in PVSA allowing repositioning cruises to the U.S. mainland.

 

This is the same reason why Hawaii cruises start in Vancouver.  They can't start in Seattle and end in Hawaii.  

 

At any rate Oasis has to go empty when repositioning to or from Bayonne.  This costs them millions in lost revenue when the ship is empty of guests for several days, so I'm not sure we'll see it as a regular feature in Bayonne.  They are basically taking the ship out of service for the equivalent of nearly two complete cruises and that is a significant hit on the balance sheet.  

 

Same when Harmony moved from Port Everglades to Port Canaveral.  Same when Allure moved from Miami to Port Everglades.  They were empty.

 

If the Oasis in Bayonne isn't a successful trial that covers the cost of the repositioning they'll likely not repeat it.   

actually, she is only empty for 3 days as there is a 4 night cruise starting on Nov 4, after that she begins her regular 7 night schedule

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13 minutes ago, molsonschooner said:

actually, she is only empty for 3 days as there is a 4 night cruise starting on Nov 4, after that she begins her regular 7 night schedule

 

3 nights going North and 3 nights going South.  

 

May 7 to May 10

Nov. 1 to Nov 4

 

In both cases she bookends the normal 7 night rotation with 4 night cruises leaving 3 night deadhead cruises on both ends.

 

3 + 3 = 6

Edited by twangster

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