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MIT72

Norwegian Cruise Lines Bad Customer Service - Bait and Switch

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53 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

I disagree that a mechanical issue rests squarely and solely on NCL

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong. Please share a situation where the responsibility for a mechanical failure of an NCL ship would rest on someone other than NCL. Thanks!!

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59 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

 

I disagree that a mechanical issue rests squarely and solely on NCL. Sometimes things break or as the esteemed philosopher also said; "it happens". I agree that most mechanical issues would be on NCL but certainly not all.

 

It would be nice if they extended something as a gesture of goodwill but the industry is at ,or near, a cyclical high. Demand is extremely good and profits are very good across the industry so NCL doesn't need to be nice. If this happened back in 2009, when the industry was hurting, you can bet the farm that NCL and all the other cruise lines would be bending over backwards with gestures of goodwill because cabins were hard to fill back then at decent prices for the cruise lines. Some people might say that this makes the cruise lines greedy corporate son of a guns,  but I say they are just being human. In the next industry downturn, when prices are a lot less than what they are now, I'll take advantage of them. I certainly won't be nice and say the cruise fares are to low for the poor cruise line to earn a decent profit, so please, please take another 500 bucks. 

 

 

I have found that your generalizations simply don't resemble actual, current behavior of other mass market cruise operators. Here is what other cruise lines have done as recently as 2019.

 

 Carnival Vista altered itineraries due to propulsion issues 2019...Passengers on the June 23 and July 1 sailings will not see any difference in cost for the additional night; they will also receive onboard credit and a 50% future cruise credit. Those who choose to cancel will receive a full refund and a 50% future cruise credit.

 

Carnival Dream 2017...

Update August 11. 2017 @ 5:00 P.M.: Statement from Carnival:

"Carnival Dream is presently experiencing a technical issue which is affecting its maximum cruising speed. All other systems are functioning normally. As a result, Carnival Dream was unable to call in Cozumel today and will be returning to New Orleans for arrival on Sunday as per its normal schedule.

Guests sailing on this voyage were provided with a $50 per person onboard credit. The ship did make its scheduled calls in Montego Bay, Jamaica and Grand Cayman earlier in the voyage.

 

Grandeur of the Seas 2019....The cruise line has apologized to guests and reimbursed the full price of the cruise price. To make sure guests can enjoy their holiday, Royal Caribbean provides a 100% future cruise credit. Any excursions on land or packages before the cruise are also refunded.

 

 

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1 hour ago, blcruising said:

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong. Please share a situation where the responsibility for a mechanical failure of an NCL ship would rest on someone other than NCL. Thanks!!

Let's see, perhaps a faulty part supplied by the manufacturer, or simply a failure of a part whose life expectancy was not recognized by the manufacturer when the planned maintenance for the equipment was generated.  Kind of like Takata air bags?  Or, even the Carnival Triumph, where the fire was caused by a part that had been replaced 6 months earlier, yet the part failed.

Edited by chengkp75

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21 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Let's see, perhaps a faulty part supplied by the manufacturer, or simply a failure of a part whose life expectancy was not recognized by the manufacturer when the planned maintenance for the equipment was generated.  Kind of like Takata air bags?  Or, even the Carnival Triumph, where the fire was caused by a part that had been replaced 6 months earlier, yet the part failed.

Right, but that's an issue between NCL and the manufacturer, not the end consumer. When my car is recalled due to a faulty part, I deal with the car dealer, not the manufacturer of the part. The dealer makes the repairs and deals with manufacturer. Just look at the Boeing nightmare; consumers work through the contracted airline and the airlines work with Boeing.

Edited by blcruising

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43 minutes ago, blcruising said:

I have found that your generalizations simply don't resemble actual, current behavior of other mass market cruise operators. Here is what other cruise lines have done as recently as 2019.

 

 Carnival Vista altered itineraries due to propulsion issues 2019...Passengers on the June 23 and July 1 sailings will not see any difference in cost for the additional night; they will also receive onboard credit and a 50% future cruise credit. Those who choose to cancel will receive a full refund and a 50% future cruise credit.

 

Carnival Dream 2017...

Update August 11. 2017 @ 5:00 P.M.: Statement from Carnival:

"Carnival Dream is presently experiencing a technical issue which is affecting its maximum cruising speed. All other systems are functioning normally. As a result, Carnival Dream was unable to call in Cozumel today and will be returning to New Orleans for arrival on Sunday as per its normal schedule.

Guests sailing on this voyage were provided with a $50 per person onboard credit. The ship did make its scheduled calls in Montego Bay, Jamaica and Grand Cayman earlier in the voyage.

 

Grandeur of the Seas 2019....The cruise line has apologized to guests and reimbursed the full price of the cruise price. To make sure guests can enjoy their holiday, Royal Caribbean provides a 100% future cruise credit. Any excursions on land or packages before the cruise are also refunded.

 

 

OK, here is a thread from May about itinerary changes due to Allure of the Seas chronic propulsion issue.  Many cruises were impacted with thousands of passengers on each cruise (mega ship), so this is just a sample thread.  The propulsion issue is on going.  It has lasted so long that well informed passengers have had the opportunity to cancel their cruise before final payment.  Of course, not everybody hangs around on cruise critic and not every TA communicates well with their clients and and RCI’s communications have been severely criticized, too.  So, even now some passengers may not have understood before final payment. Do not assume from your above votings that all itinerary changes have received compensation...far from it.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, blcruising said:

Right, but that's an issue between NCL and the manufacturer, not the end consumer.

But the bottom line is that they can follow the maintenance schedule precisely and STILL have a mechanical failure.  NCL can do everything in its power to prevent a mechanical problem and still have a ship down an engine.

 

Stuff happens...

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Everyone who owns an engine for years likely has experienced a breakdown despite following maintenance procedures.  Of course people are frustrated when they are impacted by mechanical breakdowns, but pretending that maintenance will prevent all breakdowns is delusion, perhaps temporary delusion borne of frustration, but delusion nonetheless.

 

Skipping way back to the OP’s original post, “We picked the option to have a credit for each excusion, but now have no interest in the two ports (George Town, Grand Cayman and Puerto Limon, Costa Rica) that were substituted for Santa Maria, Colombia and Cartagena, Colombia. “

I don’t recall if anybody mentioned that the OP can change to a different perk if the shore excursion credit is no longer the most appealing perk after the port changes.  Worth a thought...maybe some other perk would be better now...unless of course they are taking excursions at enough other ports, in which case, they still have a chance of getting a benefit of that perk.  Shore excursions get canceled for a variety of reasons, so one cannot count on getting a benefit from that perk; you get nothing back if you cannot/will not use it.  As overpriced as ship sponsored shore excursions can be, the credit can be of dubious value, depending upon circumstances.

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1 hour ago, blcruising said:

Right, but that's an issue between NCL and the manufacturer, not the end consumer. When my car is recalled due to a faulty part, I deal with the car dealer, not the manufacturer of the part. The dealer makes the repairs and deals with manufacturer. Just look at the Boeing nightmare; consumers work through the contracted airline and the airlines work with Boeing.

 

But when you purchased your car you didn't sign a very dealer or manufacturer friendly contract which limited your rights considerably. In fact, as a land customer you have extra consumer rights built in from consumer rights legislations which are not applicable to the cruise industry. Your recent recall may have been ordered by a government entity. 

 

I am always nicer to my in-laws at our Thanksgiving dinner when I know Mrs. Dawg will kick me under the table if I don't.  😉

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, blcruising said:

Right, but that's an issue between NCL and the manufacturer, not the end consumer. When my car is recalled due to a faulty part, I deal with the car dealer, not the manufacturer of the part. The dealer makes the repairs and deals with manufacturer. Just look at the Boeing nightmare; consumers work through the contracted airline and the airlines work with Boeing.

Correct, but to use your words, the responsibility for the failure would "rest with someone else".  I.E., neither your car manufacturer, nor NCL would be "at fault", nor "negligent" if the fault were from the manufacturer.  As noted, I don't get into customer service issues, so I won't address where you would get remedies for the changes to the cruise, but the "responsibility" for the failure may or may not be "directly" with NCL.

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Well we are way off topic now. My point is that if anyone is going to take care of passengers it will solely and squarely be NCL, not because they are obligated to do so but as a gesture of goodwill. You can read the examples I've shown in this thread as to what other cruise lines have chosen to do. Arguing semantics and cruise contract clauses with you very technical folks can be futile. Good luck to all impacted passengers. Peace out.

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We have just returned from a cruise on the Star where we have 2 ports dropped because of mechanical issues (Santorini and Montenegro) and most of the other ports we had shorter time in too.

 

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On 11/21/2019 at 9:46 PM, MIT72 said:

We have been searching for the problem since we were told of the port changes. I'm concerned if it is an azipod issue that they have not fixed that another similar problem could develop and leave us stranded. We are trying to figure out who to contact in the Coast Guard about arranging a ship inspection before we sail on Dec 6.  https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2019/11/articles/power-loss/norwegian-star-suffers-propulsion-problems/ 

 

On their corporate website, Norwegian Cruise Lines Holding Company, they have their "Vision, Mission and Values" statement, which includes the "value" of "flawless execution." Obviously, they are failing to honor that part of their values. http://www.nclhltd.com/vision-mission-and-values  After today's surprises, I read that mission statement and realize that it is worthless. Since the other companies in the holding company are Oceania and Regent, I hesitate to try them. The press on Oceania is good, and we had talked about using them to go through the Panama Canal, but given the parent company's attitude, I wonder if I should also avoid them in the future. 

 

You are being ridiculously unreasonable.  

 

Unfortunately, things happen that sometimes can't be controlled.  Norwegian (or any other cruise line) would never leave port if they thought the ship wasn't fit to sail.  An Azipod issue isn't something that makes the ship unsafe and isn't likely to cause other problems.

 

As others have mentioned, this can happen with any cruise line, and you even mention you've missed ports on previous cruises.  

 

 

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11 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Correct, but to use your words, the responsibility for the failure would "rest with someone else".  I.E., neither your car manufacturer, nor NCL would be "at fault", nor "negligent" if the fault were from the manufacturer. 

 It is also worth noting that most industries don't work like auto manufacturers where they are basically on the hook for safety issues for the life of the vehicle.  Generally, unless a warranty is applicable, the end user is responsible for the cost of resolving issues.

 

10 hours ago, blcruising said:

Well we are way off topic now. My point is that if anyone is going to take care of passengers it will solely and squarely be NCL, not because they are obligated to do so but as a gesture of goodwill. You can read the examples I've shown in this thread as to what other cruise lines have chosen to do. Arguing semantics and cruise contract clauses with you very technical folks can be futile

 

I think a lot of "technical folks" don't have a problem with anyone suggesting that it would be nice, and possible smart, for a company to extend goodwill.  But a couple of posters seem to feel they are entitled to it because of itinerary changes that somehow constitute bait and switch (which implies a contractual issue, hence the contractual response).  That is not the same as wishing NCL would step up and do something nice. 

 

Furthermore, the OP has repeatedly implied the ship is unsafe without providing any evidence to back up the claim. 

 

Against a background of those dubious statements, its hard to have a reasonable discussion about typical compensation, goodwill on behalf of the cruise line, and what other things might help make this cruise experience better.

 

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On 11/21/2019 at 5:26 PM, MIT72 said:

We booked a very specific Norwegian Cruise lines trip ( Dec 6, 2019 departure on Norwegian Star) because we wanted to go to Colombia and through the Panama Canal.

With all the protests in Columbia, maybe it was best that you aren't porting there.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/colombia-protests-government-crackdown-latin-america

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On 11/24/2019 at 8:36 AM, blcruising said:

Right, but that's an issue between NCL and the manufacturer, not the end consumer. When my car is recalled due to a faulty part, I deal with the car dealer, not the manufacturer of the part. The dealer makes the repairs and deals with manufacturer. Just look at the Boeing nightmare; consumers work through the contracted airline and the airlines work with Boeing.

So you have never had a car that has broken down?  Never had a computer that malfunctioned?  Your analogy about working with the car dealer works against you.  Yes, you work with the dealer but they are not responsible for the faulty part or design.

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5 minutes ago, buckeyefrank said:

So you have never had a car that has broken down?  Never had a computer that malfunctioned?  Your analogy about working with the car dealer works against you.  Yes, you work with the dealer but they are not responsible for the faulty part or design.

As stated above....peace out, mate.

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On 11/23/2019 at 5:57 PM, Oceansaway17 said:

there is a new CEO coming on board soon so perhaps rules for communications to passengers might change.

 

The agents are told what to say and what not to say.

 

I think in the end, no company would put a ship in the ocean if it truly had issues as they have to consider the crew and officers as well.    Still, sorry your cruise ports were cancelled, but I don't find those very interesting.  I would be more mad if something in the Baltics were cancelled.

We were on the Star for the November 3rd cruise.Myself and a multitude of other passengers were not notified in advance of the port changes as well as the engine problems. The way we found out was through CC. I know it sounds like a 3rd world problem but we chose this cruise only for the stops in Santorini and Mykenos. The additional stops were totally secondary. The response on the ship from the Officers was that when they were in Santorini the previous week and I quote "We were there and it rained there that day in the afternoon" which is totally a stupid thing to say and has no relativity to the situation at hand. But this was the only 2 places that we  and many many others had not seen  that we wanted to see. All the other European cruisesthat I look at all have ports that we have already visited and have no interest in revisiting so had we been given an option we would have canceled or maybe not once we had a choice instead of having it shoved down our collective throats. That being said if ports had been cancelled on a Carribbean cruise we would have cared less we have been everywhere and are always happy to sail around in the good weather and enjoy the boat.

 

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On our recent Breakaway cruise we missed two ports, and overnighted in San Juan. A tropical storm affected our itinerary, and then a medical emergency forced the ship to sail closer to San Juan later in the cruise for a helicopter evac, and we couldn't make it to Nassau, so we had an extra sea day.

 

The lobby was full of people asking what was going on, with some complaining. We hung around to hear how people react. We heard things that I'm sure people didn't mean, but said in their frustration. The "white uniforms" were in the lobby in force to help explain things to people. This is how several of the exchanges went:

 

White uniform: We had to divert because of a passenger requiring medical attention, and we were in fear she would die.

Passenger: That sounds like her problem. Not mine.

White uniform:

Passenger: Well?

White uniform: We are required by maritime law to do whatever we can to save lives.

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, fshagan said:

On our recent Breakaway cruise we missed two ports, and overnighted in San Juan. A tropical storm affected our itinerary, and then a medical emergency forced the ship to sail closer to San Juan later in the cruise for a helicopter evac, and we couldn't make it to Nassau, so we had an extra sea day.

 

The lobby was full of people asking what was going on, with some complaining. We hung around to hear how people react. We heard things that I'm sure people didn't mean, but said in their frustration. The "white uniforms" were in the lobby in force to help explain things to people. This is how several of the exchanges went:

 

White uniform: We had to divert because of a passenger requiring medical attention, and we were in fear she would die.

Passenger: That sounds like her problem. Not mine.

White uniform:

Passenger: Well?

White uniform: We are required by maritime law to do whatever we can to save lives.

 

Wow, people can be so mean and insensitive.  

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19 minutes ago, fshagan said:

This is how several of the exchanges went:

 

White uniform: We had to divert because of a passenger requiring medical attention, and we were in fear she would die.

Passenger: That sounds like her problem. Not mine.

White uniform:

Passenger: Well?

White uniform: We are required by maritime law to do whatever we can to save lives.

And I'm sure if that passenger was the one with the medical issue they would have complained that the ship didn't dock for the evac so they didn't have to ride the basket up to the chopper.

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On 11/28/2019 at 1:24 PM, ctkathchick said:

We were on the Star for the November 3rd cruise.Myself and a multitude of other passengers were not notified in advance of the port changes as well as the engine problems. The way we found out was through CC. I know it sounds like a 3rd world problem but we chose this cruise only for the stops in Santorini and Mykenos. The additional stops were totally secondary. The response on the ship from the Officers was that when they were in Santorini the previous week and I quote "We were there and it rained there that day in the afternoon" which is totally a stupid thing to say and has no relativity to the situation at hand. But this was the only 2 places that we  and many many others had not seen  that we wanted to see. All the other European cruisesthat I look at all have ports that we have already visited and have no interest in revisiting so had we been given an option we would have canceled or maybe not once we had a choice instead of having it shoved down our collective throats. That being said if ports had been cancelled on a Carribbean cruise we would have cared less we have been everywhere and are always happy to sail around in the good weather and enjoy the boat.

 

Well, I am sorry this happened to you.  I remember the first time major changes were made to an itinerary on one of our cruises; it was a learning experience.  From that I leaned a valuable lesson.  If you are an experienced cruiser or if you hang around CC, you know that lesson.

 

Your recent this experience would then remind you that if there are ports you really must see, you should fly to those ports rather than cruise to them.  Ports are missed for a variety of reasons and cruise contracts allow cruise lines to change itineraries, so if you want to see those destinations, just fly there and really enjoy them.  

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You have to board your ship knowing that a port can be changed, skipped, whatever.  Flexibility is the key to a happy cruise.   No cruise line does this on purpose, but sometimes it is necessary for safety reasons or weather.  I am  on the Star transatlantic in April 2020 with my daughter and while we are REALLY looking forward to the ports, we will deal with it if anything is changed....disappointment for sure, but not long enough to spoil even one day of such a geat vacation!!

 

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6 hours ago, hallux said:

And I'm sure if that passenger was the one with the medical issue they would have complained that the ship didn't dock for the evac so they didn't have to ride the basket up to the chopper.

I always think it could be me next time and it is good to see how they handle these evacuations.  

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3 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

Well, I am sorry this happened to you.  I remember the first time major changes were made to an itinerary on one of our cruises; it was a learning experience.  From that I leaned a valuable lesson.  If you are an experienced cruiser or if you hang around CC, you know that lesson.

 

Your recent this experience would then remind you that if there are ports you really must see, you should fly to those ports rather than cruise to them.  Ports are missed for a variety of reasons and cruise contracts allow cruise lines to change itineraries, so if you want to see those destinations, just fly there and really enjoy them.  

Well let it be said that I have over 25 cruises under my belt and this is the first time that this has ever happened. As I said having not gotten any  notice or option on what I wanted to do I would not have batted an eye. I as well as others believe Ncl handled the situation in an unprofessional manner both in how they handled the situation before we boarded as well as once we were onboard and the cavalier attitude that was displayed by Officers as well as the staff at guest services. I am currently looking to book the Greek Isles again just not the same itinerary. I believe that this is more of an anomaly  rather than a normal occurance

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12 hours ago, ctkathchick said:

Well let it be said that I have over 25 cruises under my belt and this is the first time that this has ever happened. As I said having not gotten any  notice or option on what I wanted to do I would not have batted an eye. I as well as others believe Ncl handled the situation in an unprofessional manner both in how they handled the situation before we boarded as well as once we were onboard and the cavalier attitude that was displayed by Officers as well as the staff at guest services. I am currently looking to book the Greek Isles again just not the same itinerary. I believe that this is more of an anomaly  rather than a normal occurance

As an experienced cruiser you have been fortunate that changes in your cruise itineraries have never happened. That said, you probably should have known things can change.

From what you described I see no unprofessional behaviors on the part of the Officers and staff. Did you want them to yell back at you or you just didn't like what you were told? 

You signed the contract, the onus is on you to recognize what you purchased.

Perhaps you should move on from cruising if small things upset you so much; things that you should have known could happen in the first place.

Good luck to you!

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