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Vent. So mad. Sticking with Carnival.


Eli_6
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As an aside, I see many anti atty posts here ..sad!

Attitudes  usually change when someone needs one & they come through! 

 

Issue here is  that someone at X  apparently goofed to the detriment of a good customer, and  whether or  not  X will make some amends! 

 

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3 minutes ago, hcat said:

Off topic

As an aside, I see many anti atty posts here ..sad!

Attitudes  usually change when someone needs one & they come through! 

 

Issue here is  that someone at X  apparently goofed to the detriment of a good customer, and  whether or  not  X will make some amends! 

 


I do not think it is so much anti-attorney as much as it is anti-throwing that card so quickly. It is essentially the same as ”Do you know who I am?” which never gets good results either.

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I guess we had a diff perception but I get your point.  I think OP was backing up the basis of  his/her knowledge .

 

Anyhow..anything that sounds too good to be true... 9 times put of 10 .. isn't

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Just now, WrittenOnYourHeart said:


I do not think it is so much anti-attorney as much as it is anti-throwing that card so quickly. It is essentially the same as ”Do you know who I am?” which never gets good results either.

 

The OP  has confirmed that she was just identifying herself in this forum as an attorney because she is familiar with the Texas statute arguably applicable. 

 

On the "throwing the attorney card" issue, I think the discussion is interesting since it swerved so quickly and unjustifiably to some fear of misuse of her status, and from there to seeing the identification as a lawyer as equivalent to a threat to sue.  I have never tried to use my license as an attempt to strut my importance. Two times, however, I did inject my profession because I was trying to get action from a stubborn "gatekeeper" who was, frankly, stupidly denying my mother health care. 

 

Here is an example: A doctor in my mother's Kansas City HMO would not authorize my mother to go to a doctor in Chicago for a severe earache she had had for 3 days (-40F windchill, no less). Disallowed it because she was flying home in a few days and "if it is infected we can take care of it then." I got on the phone and said, "Okay, let me make sure I understand. You are refusing to allow a 68 year old woman a simple trip to a local clinic to check out a suspected ear infection, and, instead you want her to wait untreated several days, then fly for 2 hours at 35,000 feet with all the pressure changes and pain that could entail, so she can finally be treated in KC?  I just want to make sure, because I am pretty certain we may have read about cases like this in law school." Doctor: "Okay, take her to the blasted clinic!" She had an infection, got antibiotics, and had to wait a few days to fly home.

 

The other one was a telephone rep from a pharm company who refused to talk to me pursuant to my mother's general power of attorney for for all health care matters (they had a copy), executed 6 years previously, was not valid because we had not gotten her declared incompetent (a sub-section on page 2 dealing with the continued validity even if she was found incompetent). After 45 minutes of arguing (never being allowed to speak to anyone else), I finally told her I was a lawyer and she needed to check with their legal department to avoid a lot of problems. 20 minutes later, she called back and allowed me to represent Mom.

 

I bring these up because I am firmly of the belief that everyone should get a year of legal training just for self-protection. Would not identifying myself as a lawyer have helped in these cases? 

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The general advice for consumer issues is to not invoke anything that suggests you may be intending to sue.  Most corporations will refer your case to their general counsel from then on out, and the general counsel's office is not going to provide any customer service.  Basically: do you want to exhaust your other options first and possibly get a resolution you like or do you go nuclear from the beginning & end up with nothing?  That's why I cautioned the OP to leave her career out of the complaint to the VP.  

 

Tangentially, as a customer service rep, would you really want to go the extra mile to help someone who was threatening you with legal action, especially if your hands were tied on the matter?

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1 hour ago, mayleeman said:

 

The OP  has confirmed that she was just identifying herself in this forum as an attorney because she is familiar with the Texas statute arguably applicable. 

 

On the "throwing the attorney card" issue, I think the discussion is interesting since it swerved so quickly and unjustifiably to some fear of misuse of her status, and from there to seeing the identification as a lawyer as equivalent to a threat to sue.  I have never tried to use my license as an attempt to strut my importance. Two times, however, I did inject my profession because I was trying to get action from a stubborn "gatekeeper" who was, frankly, stupidly denying my mother health care. 

 

Here is an example: A doctor in my mother's Kansas City HMO would not authorize my mother to go to a doctor in Chicago for a severe earache she had had for 3 days (-40F windchill, no less). Disallowed it because she was flying home in a few days and "if it is infected we can take care of it then." I got on the phone and said, "Okay, let me make sure I understand. You are refusing to allow a 68 year old woman a simple trip to a local clinic to check out a suspected ear infection, and, instead you want her to wait untreated several days, then fly for 2 hours at 35,000 feet with all the pressure changes and pain that could entail, so she can finally be treated in KC?  I just want to make sure, because I am pretty certain we may have read about cases like this in law school." Doctor: "Okay, take her to the blasted clinic!" She had an infection, got antibiotics, and had to wait a few days to fly home.

 

The other one was a telephone rep from a pharm company who refused to talk to me pursuant to my mother's general power of attorney for for all health care matters (they had a copy), executed 6 years previously, was not valid because we had not gotten her declared incompetent (a sub-section on page 2 dealing with the continued validity even if she was found incompetent). After 45 minutes of arguing (never being allowed to speak to anyone else), I finally told her I was a lawyer and she needed to check with their legal department to avoid a lot of problems. 20 minutes later, she called back and allowed me to represent Mom.

 

I bring these up because I am firmly of the belief that everyone should get a year of legal training just for self-protection. Would not identifying myself as a lawyer have helped in these cases? 


HUGE difference between something essential like health and something not essential like a cruise.

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52 minutes ago, bEwAbG said:

The general advice for consumer issues is to not invoke anything that suggests you may be intending to sue.  Most corporations will refer your case to their general counsel from then on out, and the general counsel's office is not going to provide any customer service.  Basically: do you want to exhaust your other options first and possibly get a resolution you like or do you go nuclear from the beginning & end up with nothing?  That's why I cautioned the OP to leave her career out of the complaint to the VP.  

 

Tangentially, as a customer service rep, would you really want to go the extra mile to help someone who was threatening you with legal action, especially if your hands were tied on the matter?


EXACTLY!

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No, there is a huge difference between identifying yourself in a fashion that demonstrates familiarity with a topic from threatening to sue.

 

Travel agents here routinely identify themselves this way, often relying on resources they have available that most consumers do not. Police on here point out misstatements about certain procedures, our resident Chief Engineer informs about many things cruising, doctors provide valuable assistance.

 

But when a lawyer does it to establish some reliability on a topic, people assumed she threatened to sue when she talked to Celebrity. And that is a vast underestimation of how attorneys act and how they can use expertise to find solutions to problems.

 

I blame TV ads during Jeopardy....

Edited by mayleeman
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Well, I must say that many of us either did not read or understand OP's thread title: Vent. ....

 

When a poster identifies that they are venting, I just respect that, read it and comment when appropriate.

 

Much of the input is appreciated, I Am sure, yet just let those who identify their posting as a Vent, Vent.... until they ask for further input.

 

bon voyage

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6 hours ago, bEwAbG said:

Seeing the prices for this and other bookings, I agree that the OP has a right to be angry.  Those are well within the realm of reasonable fares for a 7-day cruise in the lowest suite category, even on the newest ship.  Having a confirmation in hand strengthens the case.  If the VP responds and doesn't agree to honor the fare, I'd then send a letter to the President asking for reconsideration.  They surely have call logs to go back and see what happened on their end.    

 

 

I agree go back to the call logs and if the agent said what they did, the company should keep the promise to the customer.

 

And the fact that the OP is a lawyer who shared her story should tells us all that we have a right to complain and fight the battle.  I don't understand why folks think that lawyers should stay quiet and not complain or try to get issues resolved.  And perhaps we all might just learn something in the process.

Too often on CC folks side with the cruise lines and very little empathy for folks posting here.  I guess some of you did not get the results you wanted and so the OP who is a lawyer should not either.

 

I for one think this is the reason to never have loyalty to any one cruise line.

 

There are nice cruises out of Amsterdam and Copenhagen to Norway.  HAL for one has quite a few different itineraries and so does Princess. Heck Disney is doing Norway too.  Pick the one with the best and longest ports.  Southampton takes longer to get up to Norway so check out AMS and Copenhagen and good luck

to the OP  Eli_6 

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16 hours ago, mayleeman said:

No, there is a huge difference between identifying yourself in a fashion that demonstrates familiarity with a topic from threatening to sue.

 

Travel agents here routinely identify themselves this way, often relying on resources they have available that most consumers do not. Police on here point out misstatements about certain procedures, our resident Chief Engineer informs about many things cruising, doctors provide valuable assistance.

 

But when a lawyer does it to establish some reliability on a topic, people assumed she threatened to sue when she talked to Celebrity. And that is a vast underestimation of how attorneys act and how they can use expertise to find solutions to problems.

 

I blame TV ads during Jeopardy....


You can represent me any day!

 

- Joel

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21 hours ago, mayleeman said:

No, there is a huge difference between identifying yourself in a fashion that demonstrates familiarity with a topic from threatening to sue.

 

Travel agents here routinely identify themselves this way, often relying on resources they have available that most consumers do not. Police on here point out misstatements about certain procedures, our resident Chief Engineer informs about many things cruising, doctors provide valuable assistance.

 

But when a lawyer does it to establish some reliability on a topic, people assumed she threatened to sue when she talked to Celebrity. And that is a vast underestimation of how attorneys act and how they can use expertise to find solutions to problems.

 

I blame TV ads during Jeopardy....

The ridiculous part of this entire issue is that I did NOT identify myself as an attorney to Celebrity. 

 

Maybe I should have because I just checked my bank account and they charged my account yesterday (Tuesday) for the $1,000 deposit and then sent me an email with a new booking for that cruise for the full price that I did NOT agree to...when the entire booking was supposed to have been cancelled on Monday.  

 

So, currently no refund, no response from Celebrity and instead booked me for something I did not agree to. Sigh.

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6 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

The ridiculous part of this entire issue is that I did NOT identify myself as an attorney to Celebrity. 

Unfortunately, proficiency in reading comprehension has never been a requirement for Cruise Critic membership. :classic_rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Eli_6 said:

The ridiculous part of this entire issue is that I did NOT identify myself as an attorney to Celebrity. 

 

Maybe I should have because I just checked my bank account and they charged my account yesterday (Tuesday) for the $1,000 deposit and then sent me an email with a new booking for that cruise for the full price that I did NOT agree to...when the entire booking was supposed to have been cancelled on Monday.  

 

So, currently no refund, no response from Celebrity and instead booked me for something I did not agree to. Sigh.

OMG, it just keeps getting worse.  So they will not honor the mistake after they said they would...then after you said "no thank you" to the new fare, they rebook you at the price you didn't agree to and charged your account?  Do I have that correct?  Unbelievable...might be time for you to play your card...I really hope you get this straightened out...

Edited by Georgia_Peaches
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10 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

OMG, it just keeps getting worse.  So they will not honor the mistake after they said they would...then after you said "no thank you" to the new fare, they rebook you at the price you didn't agree to and charged your account?  Do I have that correct?  Unbelievable...might be time for you to play your card...I really hope you get this straightened out...

Yup. That's exactly what happened. 

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11 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

Yup. That's exactly what happened. 

 

Wow! Let's ignore my "let it lie" unsolicited advice in my first post, shall we?  "Let it fly" seems well justified under the circumstances! Good luck!

Edited by mayleeman
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1 hour ago, Eli_6 said:

The ridiculous part of this entire issue is that I did NOT identify myself as an attorney to Celebrity. 

 

Maybe I should have because I just checked my bank account and they charged my account yesterday (Tuesday) for the $1,000 deposit and then sent me an email with a new booking for that cruise for the full price that I did NOT agree to...when the entire booking was supposed to have been cancelled on Monday.  

 

So, currently no refund, no response from Celebrity and instead booked me for something I did not agree to. Sigh.

 

You could always just sail anyways and try your luck at a $2,500 casino jackpot, and have them trick you into a $2,500 facial, like what recently happened on Allure of the Seas.

 

Not everyone wants to see it, but RCL and its brands are having integrity issues as of late.  The problem is, NCL, MSC, and Carnival's hands aren't clean either.  Your situation is become totally unacceptable, from an annoyance to what sounds like fraud.  I would consider a BBB complaint if they continue to ignore you.  CCL had difficulty communicating and issuing a refund 4 months after our 2017 cruise, on a $1,800 return, but they couldn't solve it fast enough once the BBB case got filed.

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Booking my first b2b cruise was more than I could take, but I stayed the course, and just kept calling Celebrity until I was directed to a supervisor with the knowledge and expertise to say "what?"  She looked at my phone calls and could not believe that I had been treated this way by so many representatives  working for Celebrity.  It was so rediculous that she gave me her email, replying that I should contact her immediately if there were any more issues.  I was astounded by her effortless and quick response, along with the way in which she took care of the situation.  There are fair and knowledgable people working for Celebrity, but finding one has become much more difficult nowadays, along with taking valuable time and energy.

 

OP, I hope you can find a suitable cruise!

Edited by Lastdance
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I don't see the problem with her identifying herself as an attorney, and using that to her advantage.  I am surprised anyone on this site does have a problem with it.  After all, how many on here are so quick to identify themselves as "elite"

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To the OP, my experience with the Customer Service from Celebrity has been far and away much better than that of any other cruise line.  

 

Clearly, this situation is unacceptable, and a very poor example of how business should be conducted.  I'm sorry you've had this occur, and I would be very angry and disappointed .  

 

Thank you for taking the time to post about what happened and is continuing to happen.  It helps the rest of us who may find ourselves in a similar situation. 

 

I'm optimistically expecting X to do the right thing, once your predicament reaches the right eyes/ears.

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1 hour ago, jjsnonna said:

I don't see the problem with her identifying herself as an attorney, and using that to her advantage.  I am surprised anyone on this site does have a problem with it.  After all, how many on here are so quick to identify themselves as "elite"

Actually, the supervisor, in my particular situation, thanked me for my status..., but I see your point clearly!  I wonder how many actually say they have a law degree when they don’t...I think being clear and honest about the situation  is very important, just as finding someone that can cut to the chase...

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