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Well, that'll leave a mark - Glory Damaged in Cozumel


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2 hours ago, Thorncroft said:

I think it's unlikely that they'll fix this damage while under way.  With all the cutting and welding that will be required, the risk of fire is too strong to allow passengers on board while repairs are in progress. 

 

I'm pretty sure they're cutting and welding something all the time on a ship that size....

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36 minutes ago, BelowDeck4us said:

The weather conditions were clearly known, including the gusty winds.  So for those who've captained a vessel, if the windy conditions are known, shouldn't you give a wider berth to all obstacles, in anticipation of what happened might just happen?  I'm probably overly simplifying the situation when I compare it to driving in ice and snow, in which case you leave a greater following distance to the nearest vehicle.  But again, I've never operated any type of boat, let alone a cruise ship.  

 

The big difference is that you can't just line up farther out and come in really slow.  A ship is constantly being impacted by current and wind, and needs to continually adjust for that.  Think about a boat crossing a swift river.  It needs to adjust its course and maintain a certain speed in order to keep from getting pushed downstream.  Ships, likewise, must counter wind and current at all times.  As the ships orientation changes, winds gusts hit the vessel, etc, those in charge need to counteract with the correct amount of power from thrusters and main propulsion.  Too little or too much and you are in the wrong place.  Throw in the ships inertia and the fact that rudders and thrusters have different levels of effectiveness at different speeds and you can see why it takes a long time to command a large vessel.  A few of our members who have commanded larger vessels can probably give better examples.

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55 minutes ago, BelowDeck4us said:

All I could think about was the new cooking classes they're offering on the Panorama.  You ask how that relates?  I couldn't help but think they had started a "pilot" (no pun intended) class on the Glory and that a passenger was captaining the ship.  😏

 

The weather conditions were clearly known, including the gusty winds.  So for those who've captained a vessel, if the windy conditions are known, shouldn't you give a wider berth to all obstacles, in anticipation of what happened might just happen?  I'm probably overly simplifying the situation when I compare it to driving in ice and snow, in which case you leave a greater following distance to the nearest vehicle.  But again, I've never operated any type of boat, let alone a cruise ship.  

 

Just glad to hear there were no serious injuries.  Ships can be repaired, sometimes people can't.  

 

I was thinking the same thing. I was at that very pier just two days ago. Wasn't windy then.

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Curious, knowing the weather conditions and knowing there would be a lot of very expensive hardware in close proximity, does Cozumel not have heavy tug support as most busy port/harbors? A tug or two on the starboard side could have helped a lot I would have thought.

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58 minutes ago, BelowDeck4us said:

The weather conditions were clearly known, including the gusty winds.  So for those who've captained a vessel, if the windy conditions are known, shouldn't you give a wider berth to all obstacles, in anticipation of what happened might just happen?  I'm probably overly simplifying the situation when I compare it to driving in ice and snow, in which case you leave a greater following distance to the nearest vehicle.  But again, I've never operated any type of boat, let alone a cruise ship.

 

Are you saying that the Glory should've given a wider berth to the Legend? Or even the Oasis? The Glory was trying to dock, that's why it was so close to the Legend. The Legend was already docked and tied up. You can see the very tip of the pier peeking out behind the Legend in some of the videos. The Glory was making its docking approach on the opposite side of the pier when it was caught by the wind.

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33 minutes ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

 

 

Now, whether or not the captain should've made the attempt at that particular moment, that's for another discussion, but considering others ships had docked successfully ahead of the Glory, it stands to reason that that captain believed he could, too.

 

Hubris has been the cause of many crashes on land, sea and air. 

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4 hours ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

So I was watching the Video and noticed the Legend started her Engines back up, Curious why that happened. 

Does Cozumel have shore power connections for ships?  If not, there would have been at least one engine running to provide power to the ship.

 

5 hours ago, Formula280SS said:

WOW, anyone else thinks it looks like OASIS did a heck of a job with at least its bow and aft Port thruster's (or more, if possible?) to keep Glory away from her?

This video doesn't seem to show any thruster wash from Oasis.  What you see seems to be coming from Glory.  Oasis doesn't have thrusters at the rear, she has azipods.

 

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7 minutes ago, Thorncroft said:

Hubris has been the cause of many crashes on land, sea and air. 

 

I would tend to agree with you, but since there were two or three other ships already docked, that would seem like a fairly good indication that it's certainly doable. If multiple ships had made the call not to dock this morning, that would've been a different story. As far as we know right now, I think there was only one other one that got out of Dodge.

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FYI, according to this website, there are no tugs in Cozumel so any ship has to dock on their own, or abort.

http://m.puertamaya.com/port-information/port-specifications.aspx

 

based upon Wikipedia, Glory has 2 traditional props. Are there other sources that say Glory has pods or stern thrusters?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Glory

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7 minutes ago, WackyWayne said:

based upon Wikipedia, Glory has 2 traditional props. Are there other sources that say Glory has pods or stern thrusters?

Glory has bow and stern thrusters and an integrated propeller/rudder called the "Promas Lite". 

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3 minutes ago, Mjasp said:

Don't they dock them and take them out of the harbor when leaving?

 

No.  They offer navigation suggestions to the Captain.  They never touch the controls.  The captain makes the final decision on whether to even take the suggestion.

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Just now, Mjasp said:

Don't they dock them and take them out of the harbor when leaving?

 

Pilot's board the ship to provide advice.  It's a long standing maritime tradition to use a pilot in a foreign port.  In some ports this counsel is very valuable.  In other ports it approaches an excuse to charge a ship money for a service that does little.  

 

There are a few ports where a pilot assumes command of the ship.  Most ports the Master of the vessel is in command although they can at times allow another senior officer such as a Staff Captain to assume control and dock or leave a pier.  The idea is to groom a senior officer so that they can one day become a full Captain themselves.  Even if a Staff Captain is in command the Master is ultimately responsible for the vessel and all passengers on board.  

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As an Oasis passenger who captured the video above I think the Glory bridge crew did a pretty outstanding job to avoid a more serious and second impact with Oasis.

 

Granted the best outcome would to not be in this situation so there is that.  However once they found themselves in this crisis the bridge crew did some great seamanship to prevent a collision with Oasis.  

 

What the video doesn't show is how the ship's momentum was carrying it towards Oasis.  Glory basically performed an S turn in close proximity to Oasis first getting her bow clear of the Oasis bow while letting her stern continue to approach Oasis then completing the rest of the S turn while side slipping around Oasis.  It was almost like a race car drifting around a turn on a track.

 

I was watching the stern closely because I could see it approaching us rapidly and I was thinking about my escape route should it come to that.  If they had applied the stern thrusters before the bow was clear I believe it would have pushed the Glory bow into the Oasis bow.  Instead they waited for the pivot point of the ship to clear Oasis then they applied stern thrust to curve Glory around Oasis.  Once clear of Oasis they then had to steer to port to keep the ship in deep water.  After that they looped back around to made the second approach.

 

Someone asked why only one long call on the ship's whistle.  I assume there was radio contact between Oasis and Glory so repeated blasts of the ships whistle may not have been required given how they were likely very busy on the bridge.  

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The NCL Sun also had an interesting attempt and close call in Cozumel about an hour before Glory.  You can read about that in this post:

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2717883-the-carnival-glory-struck-the-carnival-legend-and-almost-hit-the-oasis-of-the-seas/?do=findComment&comment=58979040

 

I posted pictures of the Glory damage in this post in the same thread:

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2717883-the-carnival-glory-struck-the-carnival-legend-and-almost-hit-the-oasis-of-the-seas/?do=findComment&comment=58979096

 

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11 minutes ago, twangster said:

As an Oasis passenger who captured the video above I think the Glory bridge crew did a pretty outstanding job to avoid a more serious and second impact with Oasis.

 

Granted the best outcome would to not be in this situation so there is that.  However once they found themselves in this crisis the bridge crew did some great seamanship to prevent a collision with Oasis.  

 

What the video doesn't show is how the ship's momentum was carrying it towards Oasis.  Glory basically performed an S turn in close proximity to Oasis first getting her bow clear of the Oasis bow while letting her stern continue to approach Oasis then completing the rest of the S turn while side slipping around Oasis.  It was almost like a race car drifting around a turn on a track.

 

I was watching the stern closely because I could see it approaching us rapidly and I was thinking about my escape route should it come to that.  If they had applied the stern thrusters before the bow was clear I believe it would have pushed the Glory bow into the Oasis bow.  Instead they waited for the pivot point of the ship to clear Oasis then they applied stern thrust to curve Glory around Oasis.  Once clear of Oasis they then had to steer to port to keep the ship in deep water.  After that they looped back around to made the second approach.

 

Someone asked why only one long call on the ship's whistle.  I assume there was radio contact between Oasis and Glory so repeated blasts of the ships whistle may not have been required given how they were likely very busy on the bridge.  

 

I had asked about the Horn,

 

But Yes the Glory Bridge Crew adverted true disaster because a bow on collision with the Oasis would have been really bad. 

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35 minutes ago, twangster said:

There are a few ports where a pilot assumes command of the ship.  Most ports the Master of the vessel is in command although they can at times allow another senior officer such as a Staff Captain to assume control and dock or leave a pier.  The idea is to groom a senior officer so that they can one day become a full Captain themselves.  Even if a Staff Captain is in command the Master is ultimately responsible for the vessel and all passengers on board.  

33 minutes ago, BNBR said:

No.  They offer navigation suggestions to the Captain.  They never touch the controls.  The captain makes the final decision on whether to even take the suggestion.

Just for clarification:  In many cases a pilot takes the "conn" and issues commands directly to the individual at the controls.  However, the Master has the authority to countermand that, and is generally responsible for the vessel's safety regardless of who is issuing commands or at the controls.  The most notable place where a pilot (or his employer) assumes financial liability is the Panama Canal.  The Chief or another experienced marine Like Capt BJ or Heidi13 could expand further and may know more specifics about Cozumel and the procedures used by local pilots there.

 

 

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I have a friend on board Glory and she has reported that they have left Cozumel. That was around11:00 PM central time. She also said they have received $100.00 OBC. She did not say where they were headed but I assume Nola.

 

Edited by HeidiHo
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8 hours ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

So I was watching the Video and noticed the Legend started her Engines back up, Curious why that happened. 

Screenshot (153).png


I would imagine that the officer of the watch on Legend saw the situation unfolding and called down to engineering and asked them to bring engines online in case the collision caused Legend to break free of her moorings, thus requiring power for maneuvering. 

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I am astounded that the Glory so narrowly missed the end of the pier and that the bow height of Legend was at the perfect height to fit right into the dining area.

ao much more damage could have happened if it had been another ship 

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