Remember tragic accident with toddler? New revelations...

[podgeandrodge]

Regardless of what type of mistake he made, he didn't do it on purpose. As others have already said, he will live his life with the personal hell of it. Don't see what a State prosecution achieves really..

[mjkacmom]

15 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I see, even though they both made the same unintentional mistake, because they would not be paying the grandfather, he should be treated differently.  SHM.

Would you press charges against your parent?

[Two Wheels Only]

12 minutes ago, podgeandrodge said:

Regardless of what type of mistake he made, he didn't do it on purpose. As others have already said, he will live his life with the personal hell of it. Don't see what a State prosecution achieves really..

 

Dropping her to her death was not intentional. Most people believe that it was an accident.

 

The act of lifting a child over a safety railing, extending the child past the railing, past the window sill, and outside of a window that's over 100ft above the ground WAS intentional. Grandpa's intentional acts caused an accidental death.

[Newleno]

  It has been reported by multiple sources that the step grandfather turned down a no jail time plea deal, but instead the family filed that lawsuit in December, hence Royal  had to defend themselves in court, otherwise non of this would have hit the press, this information came from the court filings.  So by not accepting a great plea deal and then suing Royal the family chooses to keep this horrible wound open, and now are subjected to massive  scrutiny.  Because of these recent family actions  the world now knows the truth about whether grandpa knew the window was open or not.   In addition this grandpa is not in good shape, he is more than obese by definition, multiple reports say he is 51(is that accurate?), he looks more like 71.  Does anyone know if Grandpa was tested for drugs? alcohol?  

[NLH Arizona]

24 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Would you press charges against your parent?

I wouldn't, but the police would and I would understand, if by their actions they killed my baby.  Just because they were my parents, doesn't mean they shouldn't be accountable.  Both my parents are dead, but both would be fine with the police charging if they were as unreasonable as this grandfather, because they believed in being accountable for your actions.

[Newleno]

39 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

Dropping her to her death was not intentional. Most people believe that it was an accident.

 

Probably not, perhaps even up to 99% or more of not being intentional, however that is why investigations are done, drugs, alcohol, mental illness, etc... could be a factor.  

Edited January 19, 2020 by Newleno

[mjkacmom]

25 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I wouldn't, but the police would and I would understand, if by their actions they killed my baby.  Just because they were my parents, doesn't mean they shouldn't be accountable.  Both my parents are dead, but both would be fine with the police charging if they were as unreasonable as this grandfather, because they believed in being accountable for your actions.

But if a child got out of a daycare and drowned in a pond, vs. child got out of his own home and drowned in a pond, do you think the charges would be the same? 

[NLH Arizona]

12 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

But if a child got out of a daycare and drowned in a pond, vs. child got out of his own home and drowned in a pond, do you think the charges would be the same? 

What does your post have to do with the little girl being dropped....she didn't get away from anyone.  Her stepfather picked her up and put her in danger.  This is a better analogy:  If the daycare worker throwing/dropping a child who couldn't swim in a pool and it drowned versus a parent throwing/dropping a child who could not swim in a pool and it drown, it is the same, no difference.

Edited January 19, 2020 by NLH Arizona

[bonvoyagie]

Lawyer is banking his whole case on RCCL not having upgraded the window on an older ship. Nothing more, Nothing less. If such windows were made a legal requirement he has point, otherwise he is nothing more than Don Quixote chasing windmills. 

[podgeandrodge]

1 hour ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

Dropping her to her death was not intentional. Most people believe that it was an accident.

 

The act of lifting a child over a safety railing, extending the child past the railing, past the window sill, and outside of a window that's over 100ft above the ground WAS intentional. Grandpa's intentional acts caused an accidental death.

I don't think anyone thinks it was intentional, we are all agreed on that.  And agreed that his 'intentional' act, i.e. playing with the kid, caused an accidental death.  But what's the point in being prosecuted is all I'm saying?  The damage is done, and if you accept (as I presume the parents do) that it was accidental, then no-one gains from a prosecution.

[pcakes122]

2 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

Would you press charges against your parent?

Not that it matters in terms of the tragic loss, but with regards to accountability - isn't he the grandmother's boyfriend? So, I'd have to say I don't see myself pressing charges against a blood relative, I would probably feel differently if it was my mom's boyfriend.

[ColeThornton]

19 minutes ago, podgeandrodge said:

I don't think anyone thinks it was intentional, we are all agreed on that.  And agreed that his 'intentional' act, i.e. playing with the kid, caused an accidental death.  But what's the point in being prosecuted is all I'm saying?  The damage is done, and if you accept (as I presume the parents do) that it was accidental, then no-one gains from a prosecution.

 

Not a single person here knows whether the act was intentional or not.  Everyone is just speculating. 

[podgeandrodge]

7 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

Not a single person here knows whether the act was intentional or not.  Everyone is just speculating. 

 

Fair point.  I guess all I mean is that no-one has any reason to believe he threw the child out on purpose.

[Two Wheels Only]

27 minutes ago, podgeandrodge said:

And agreed that his 'intentional' act, i.e. playing with the kid, caused an accidental death.  But what's the point in being prosecuted is all I'm saying?  The damage is done, and if you accept (as I presume the parents do) that it was accidental, then no-one gains from a prosecution.

 

The act itself can lead to prosecution. Child endangerment laws differ from state to state but a person can be charged even if the child isn't harmed at all. In this case, the child died. 

[ladybugpug]

2 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

Would you press charges against your parent?

If my parent held my child out of a window over an 11 story drop I would remove my child from them and most likely never speak to them again. If my child fell??? I would want them to spend the rest of their years in prison and then an eternity in Hell. There would be no forgiveness. I cannot fathom the negligence and stupidity of holding a child out a window. It is mind numbing. 

[esm54687]

55 minutes ago, podgeandrodge said:

I don't think anyone thinks it was intentional, we are all agreed on that.  And agreed that his 'intentional' act, i.e. playing with the kid, caused an accidental death.  But what's the point in being prosecuted is all I'm saying?  The damage is done, and if you accept (as I presume the parents do) that it was accidental, then no-one gains from a prosecution.

Someone intentionally drank too much, got in their car and drove.....  killed someone in a car crash......  damage is done and driver apologies then why prosecute since the driver didn't intentionally kill anyone

 

That's why negligent homicide is available to prosecutors based on situations. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by esm54687

[mugtech]

3 hours ago, podgeandrodge said:

Regardless of what type of mistake he made, he didn't do it on purpose. As others have already said, he will live his life with the personal hell of it. Don't see what a State prosecution achieves really..

The old Nixon arguement, he was humiliated into resigning from office, what can we gain by further prosecuting a disgraced man?  We know he will never do it again.  Perhaps prosecution will discourage others from future unsafe and illegal acts.

[mjkacmom]

48 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

Not that it matters in terms of the tragic loss, but with regards to accountability - isn't he the grandmother's boyfriend? So, I'd have to say I don't see myself pressing charges against a blood relative, I would probably feel differently if it was my mom's boyfriend.

He’s her husband, and from what I’ve read, has been a grandfather to the toddler since birth. My DH’s mom is his stepmom, they married before we even started dating, 35 years ago, she is every much my children’s’ grandma as my mom.

[mjkacmom]

2 hours ago, NLH Arizona said:

What does your post have to do with the little girl being dropped....she didn't get away from anyone.  Her stepfather picked her up and put her in danger.  This is a better analogy:  If the daycare worker throwing/dropping a child who couldn't swim in a pool and it drowned versus a parent throwing/dropping a child who could not swim in a pool and it drown, it is the same, no difference.

No it’s not, because no one is throwing anyone in the pool intentionally. It is negligence, not intentional. Parents who lose track of their kids who end up in the bottom of neighbors’ pools tend to sue the neighbors.

[April42749]

So...the only video I saw was not clear at all....very grainy and distant.  If anyone could send me a hint of how to find a link that's so clear I can see a man who resting after following a young child all day and moving her from arm to arm I'd appreciate it.  

 

Well...anyway...everyone has put their child in harms way at some point...but "the angels above" save us from our own stupidity most of the time.  (I'm thinking of plenty of kids I knew from when my son was little...and I'm amazed they grew up and are still alive!)

 

I completely agree that the fault, for whatever reason, was grandpa's.  But, of what benefit would it be to put him in jail?  What he has to live with is punishment enough.

[April42749]

5 hours ago, NLH Arizona said:

If it would have been a nanny who dropped the little girl, would you feel the same?  Would the parents feel the same and just forgive them?  I seriously doubt it, so I don't know why the grandfather should be held to a different standard.  Folks need to be held accountable for their actions and what he did was failure to take proper care, in other words negligent.

I was a "I take care of my son...nobody else" mother...so if the nanny dropped the child I'd blame the parents for not taking responsibility of their child. (Please don't flame me for that...I know nobody would agree.) But, as far as the nanny dropping the child...I'd feel the same as I do about the grandfather.  It wasn't intentional....it was an accident.

However, if grandpa, nanny, mommy, daddy...or anyone....dropped the kid "while under the influence" of anything....then it's off to jail.

[pcakes122]

10 minutes ago, April42749 said:

I completely agree that the fault, for whatever reason, was grandpa's.  But, of what benefit would it be to put him in jail?  What he has to live with is punishment enough.

I'm not sure anyone is actually saying he should be put in jail.  In my opinion, the issues in question are honesty and accountability.  I don't think there is any doubt this was an accident - but it was caused by the grandfather's negligence (who puts a child up to "bang on glass" anyway?  The fact that she "loved" to bang glass at her brother's hockey games is also questionable parenting.  Banging on glass is an accident waiting to happen.)

 

So, if the grandfather was saying "It was my fault. While I never thought for a second that I would drop her, I never should have lifted her up to the opening for any reason" AND the family dropped the suit against RCL, then I don't believe anyone wants to see him burned at the stake.

 

What is upsetting people is that the grandfather knows what happened and he is not taking full accountability AND he is allowing the child's parents to pursue this frivolous lawsuit against RCL which has to be impacting their ability to properly and privately grieve the loss of their precious daughter.

 

In other words, Grandpa is contributing to this becoming a circus, so in my view he is ADDING to what he's already done.  He needs to accept accountability and let this family move on (even if it means their view of HIM changes.)

Edited January 19, 2020 by pcakes122

[NLH Arizona]

32 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

So, if the grandfather was saying "It was my fault. While I never thought for a second that I would drop her, I never should have lifted her up to the opening for any reason" AND the family dropped the suit against RCL, then I don't believe anyone wants to see him burned at the stake.

Exactly.  Apparently the Grandfather told the police, when first interview, that he held her out the window and dropped her, I think everyone would feel that he was being accountable for his actions and and would feel his pain and that would be enough of a punishment.  But and a big but, since he changed his story a number of times, wanted her to bang on the window, didn't know the window was open and having color blindness, I have no sympathy for him.  He was negligent of at the least child endangerment and should be punished for what he did.  Maybe if he sits in jail, he can think about what it means to be accountable for one's actions.

[fshagan]

6 hours ago, podgeandrodge said:

Regardless of what type of mistake he made, he didn't do it on purpose. As others have already said, he will live his life with the personal hell of it. Don't see what a State prosecution achieves really..

 

The state has a legal system to, in part, punish wrong-doers in order to preserve the public order.  

 

He was criminally negligent; here in California he might be charged with involuntary manslaughter (his recklessness caused a death, even though he wasn't intending to kill).  If we let him off, we must forgive every drunk driver who killed someone. Their recklessness in drinking too much caused them to kill someone, even though they had no intention of doing so.  Same exact legal theory. Same exact situation. A careless act without bad intent still kills.

 

I can't imagine being so careless and so reckless to directly endanger your grandchild. We've known about gravity ever since Newton got bonked on the head with an apple.

 

 

 

 

[Two Wheels Only]

2 hours ago, April42749 said:

So...the only video I saw was not clear at all....very grainy and distant.  If anyone could send me a hint of how to find a link that's so clear I can see a man who resting after following a young child all day and moving her from arm to arm I'd appreciate it.  

 

Posting a link to the video will probably get the thread locked or deleted.

 

Even if you find it online, it is difficult to analyze the video without downloading it first.