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Toddler Death Law Suit Update

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Based on the video I just looked at of the event.........

The GF leaned OUT the window first, second after a few moments he picks up the GD and proceeds to put her OUT the window by extending his arms out at full length while leaning over the hand railing. Third after some time he brings his arms back into the ship without the GD. Fourth after another few moments he reacts and collapses to the ground causing the other people on the deck to run to the window. The video speaks for itself the GF is 100% totally NEGLIGENT in the death of his Step GD. These are all facts as the video CLEARLY shows. I've served on many juries and this video is damning evidence against the GF. He should be charged with negligent homicide (manslaughter) at the very least. 

Edited by WeLuvVacation

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2 minutes ago, WeLuvVacation said:

Based on the video I just looked at of the event.........

The GF leaned OUT the window first, second after a few moments he picks up the GD and proceeds to put her OUT the window by extending his arms out at full length while leaning over the hand railing. Third after some time he brings his arms back into the ship without the GD. Fourth after another few moments he reacts and collapses to the ground causing the other people on the deck to run to the window. The video speaks for itself the GF is 100% totally NEGLIGENT in the death of his Step GD. These are all facts as the video CLEARLY shows. I've served on many juries and this video is damning evidence against the GF.

 

And that / those video(s) are the only concrete evidence that the parent's and lawyer have*, since they were not at the scene.  Anything else is hearsay. 

 

* Unless there are witnesses that have not been made public.

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1 hour ago, Another_Critic said:

This is another "investigation" photo that would appear, to me, be more incriminating to Anello than helpful.

 

A Royal Caribbean cruise ship investigation was conducted on Jan. 10 by attorneys representing the family of Chloe Wiegand. Attorneys for the family claim that Royal Caribbean is lying about how the event happened and are holding the cruise line responsible.


yes - that is the photo I was referring to in the link above.   Thanks for showing this photo.  I wasn’t sure  how to upload the photo vs. the link. 

Edited by BSocial
Typo

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55 minutes ago, Another_Critic said:

 

It doesn't matter for the civil liability case.  GF violated the Passenger Code of Conduct that he agreed to (either personally or via proxy) when the cruise was booked.

 

Already posted multiple times, but here it is again:

 

Unsafe Behavior

Sitting, standing, lying or climbing on, over or across any exterior or interior railings or other protective barriers, or tampering with ship’s equipment, facilities or systems designed for guest safety is not permitted. 

 

Sorry..I'm not arguing that it wasn't unsafe or that no code was violated.  I'm questioning theory of whether the baby was placed on the railing or being placed outside the window.  Some posters think the stepGF was holding the baby outside of the window, but I think it's possible that the baby could still fall outside the window by being placed on the railing.

 

It's quite shocking being a parent on what reckless things parents will allow their kids do in their presence (or assistance). Growing up by the beach I always saw the following:  The ones that allow their kids to stand on railings of the pier where they could fall.  My example would be Huntington Beach, CA pier.  I live near it and I would freak out if my kids would want to stand on the railing. However I watch parents allow their (very young) kids to do it all day long.  I would also see kids getting pulled out of the water all day long by life guards when there are flags out letting every one know the riptides are bad.  It's crazy how completely ignorant people are to danger.  I feel like our society has become dependent on other's to make things safe.  This case would be a perfect example of how our society is today.  

Edited by KelSny1011

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1 hour ago, dodgestang said:

 

The Law is weird...I seem to recall OJ won the criminal case....but still lost in civil court....which never made any sense to me.

 

Different standards.

 

Criminal - Beyond All Reasonable Doubt

 

Civil - Preponderance of the Evidence.

 

100% versus 51%

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On 1/18/2020 at 8:13 PM, Wheels87 said:

 I also think that if the family had not hired an attorney and threatened a lawsuit, the GF would not have been charged.


Just my 2 cents.

So you are saying that Royal decided to press charges to "get even" with the family? Or to intimidate them into dropping the suit?  That certainly does not look good for Royal if that is the case. I mean,  money definitely talks but to press charges to convince a family not to sue is pretty heavy handed. 

 

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5 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

So you are saying that Royal decided to press charges to "get even" with the family? Or to intimidate them into dropping the suit?  That certainly does not look good for Royal if that is the case. I mean,  money definitely talks but to press charges to convince a family not to sue is pretty heavy handed. 

 

 

Royal did not press charges against Anello, the justice department at San Juan, PR did.

Edited by Another_Critic

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55 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

>>Chloe was extended past the wooden railing. Grandpa set his gut on the railing.

 

Have you seen the 2 angles of surveillance video?<<

 

actually, maybe not. (seen 2 videos, that is....)  

It's possible that I've only seen the same angle repeated a few times. (The view where window wall and grandfather are on the right side of the video footage.)  

What I've seen though - is so grainy that I'm not able to distinguish the upright stanchions from the actual "wall of windows"  -- which is why I ponder different scenarios.

 

Whatever did happen, I'm of the camp that believes he knew the window was open  -- and that his actions were incredibly reckless. 

 

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1 minute ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Royal did not charge Anello, the justice department at San Juan, PR did.

I think we are all smart enough to understand this is splitting hairs. Yes, the "state" files charges. But "victims" drop charges all the time or tell the state not to press charges.
  The way the post was written-  " if the family had not hired an attorney and threatened a lawsuit, the GF would not have been charged" it appears that the person is saying the grandfather was only charged because the family hired an attorney and threatened a lawsuit.  

 

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14 minutes ago, KelSny1011 said:

It's quite shocking being a parent on what reckless things parents will allow their kids do in their presence (or assistance). Growing up by the beach I always saw the following:  The ones that allow their kids to stand on railings of the pier where they could fall.  My example would be Huntington Beach, CA pier.  I live near it and I would freak out if my kids would want to stand on the railing. However I watch parents allow their (very young) kids to do it all day long.  I would also see kids getting pulled out of the water all day long by life guards when there are flags out letting every one know the riptides are bad.  It's crazy how completely ignorant people are to danger.  I feel like our society has become dependent on other's to make things safe.  This case would be a perfect example of how our society is today.  

I too live in a resort/beach community.  People seem to think when they are on vacation, that nothing bad can happen.  It's like "this is my getaway from real life and nothing that happens in real life can happen because I am on vacation."   Tourists disobey traffic laws (not like "Local things" they are unaware of). They run traffic lights. They don't yield or merge.  They let their kids go into the ocean with shark warnings or riptide warnings while mom and dad just sit on the beach drinking beers.  Because they are on vacation and nothing bad can happen.   They suspend all good judgment and then sue the pants off of anyone around if something messes up their vacation.  

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16 minutes ago, legaljen1969 said:

So you are saying that Royal decided to press charges to "get even" with the family? Or to intimidate them into dropping the suit?  That certainly does not look good for Royal if that is the case. I mean,  money definitely talks but to press charges to convince a family not to sue is pretty heavy handed. 

 

Where did you ever get that idea?

 

Royal Caribbean handled this with kid gloves and tried to avoid pushing this into the public eye as much as possible.

 

The State has laws that MUST be followed. When a homicide takes place The State gets involved . 

 

If a family member dies from any from of homicide the family cannot just dismiss the charges against the person charged. That is nonsensical .  

 

I am very happy to see Royal Caribbean take a firm stand in this case and hope they are successful in the courts.

Edited by boscobeans

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When you or anyone is on vacation with or without kids you should be EXTRA careful as to your surroundings since you are in an unfamiliar environment. A practice my wife and I adhere to all the time.

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Just now, boscobeans said:

Where did you ever get that idea?

 

Royal Caribbean handled this with kid gloves and tried to avoid pushing this into the public eye as much as possible.

 

The State has laws that MUST be followed. When a homicide takes place The State gets involved .

 

I am very happy to see Royal Caribbean take a firm stand in this case and hope they are successful in the courts.

I was asking what the person meant when they said " if the family had not hired an attorney and threatened a lawsuit, the GF would not have been charged."   

 

That statement to me seems to indicate that they believe the grandfather would not have been charged if the family had not hired an attorney.  I wasn't sure if that's what the poster meant. 

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1 hour ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

Anello is 5'11" according to Puerto Rico police.

 

The guy holding the doll....well....I don't think....

So much for the comment by the mother and father in that article that the man with the doll, who was the Wiegand's counsel,   was of near-identical height and stature to Anello. That obviously isn't correct when looking at the photos.

Edited by robtulipe

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6 minutes ago, robtulipe said:

So much for the comment by the mother and father in that article that the man with the doll was of near-identical height and stature to Anello. That obviously isn't correct when looking at the photos.

 

The stager was as close to the height / build of GF as the doll was to GD.  🙄

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1 hour ago, CruiseEnvy said:

It's possible that I've only seen the same angle repeated a few times. (The view where window wall and grandfather are on the right side of the video footage.)  

What I've seen though - is so grainy that I'm not able to distinguish the upright stanchions from the actual "wall of windows"  -- which is why I ponder different scenarios.

 

Whatever did happen, I'm of the camp that believes he knew the window was open  -- and that his actions were incredibly reckless. 

 

You might have seen the version that was recorded on someone's phone of what they were watching on TV. I understand that many people have only seen that version. The version shown by the TV station shows a view from the rear of Anello as well as the side view. It is over 16 minutes long (several replays/analysis in Spanish) and is 130MB in size. 

Edited by Two Wheels Only

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2 hours ago, legaljen1969 said:

So you are saying that Royal decided to press charges to "get even" with the family? Or to intimidate them into dropping the suit?  That certainly does not look good for Royal if that is the case. I mean,  money definitely talks but to press charges to convince a family not to sue is pretty heavy handed. 


Given that Anello was charged with a crime A COUPLE MONTHS BEFORE the family filed their lawsuit, that pretty much blows a whole in that line of thinking.

July -- Anello drops Chloe

October -- Puerto Rico authorities charge Anello with negligent homicide

December -- Chloe's family files money-grubbing lawsuit against Royal
January -- Royal files to motion to have lawsuit dismissed based on video evidence that Chloe was held beyond the railing



 

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3 hours ago, KelSny1011 said:

Is it possible that stepGF placed the baby up on the railing, and assumed that he had a good grip, and also assumed she wouldn't lean forward?


Not at all possible, because if you look at the video, Anello is leaning against and over the railing himself, with his gut pressed up against it -- there is no place for the baby to be on the railing with Anello in that position.  The ONLY place for the baby to be is at or beyond the actual window ledge/opening.  

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2 hours ago, WeLuvVacation said:

The video speaks for itself the GF is 100% totally NEGLIGENT in the death of his Step GD. These are all facts as the video CLEARLY shows. I've served on many juries and this video is damning evidence against the GF. He should be charged with negligent homicide (manslaughter) at the very least. 

 

Generally, manslaughter and negligent homicide are, in most jurisdictions and in common law, different crimes. Manslaughter requires proof of a grossly negligent or reckless act, while negligent homicide requires only simple negligence. Think of the difference between speeding through a stop sign without even looking, compared to not getting brakes checked for years. 

 

I would guess that the PRico authorities, if their charge only requires simple negigence, probably charged that to ensure that sympathy for the crying family supporting him (despite their loss) would not result in an acquittal--i.e., they chose a level not requiring them to prove he was a bad person, only that he made a mistake a reasonable person would not have.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, legaljen1969 said:

Yes, the "state" files charges. But "victims" drop charges all the time or tell the state not to press charges.

Only in the movies.  I real life it doesn't work that way.  I was a victim who knew that the person who hurt me did not do it with bad intent.  I asked that the charges be dropped.  The DA refused and said it wasn't up to the victim.

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Well, that could have been an instance of not wanting to set a precedent.  In your case perhaps the person sincerely did not do so with a bad intent.  But what of battered spouses who drop charges against their abuser?  Better perhaps to let the DA decide the issue.

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27 minutes ago, helen haywood said:

But what of battered spouses who drop charges against their abuser?

 

Not all states allow this anymore.  It's up to the state to prosecute or not, instead of an individual.  

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4 hours ago, legaljen1969 said:

So you are saying that Royal decided to press charges to "get even" with the family? Or to intimidate them into dropping the suit?  That certainly does not look good for Royal if that is the case. I mean,  money definitely talks but to press charges to convince a family not to sue is pretty heavy handed. 

 

 

No, because Royal Caribbean cannot press charges against anyone.  The fact is that within three days of the accident, the family had retained the attorney, who then immediately blamed Royal Caribbean publicly many many times for the incident.  The family, including both the parents and the Step Grandfather, also blamed Royal Caribbean in the media repeatedly.  The Puerto Rican authorities have great leeway in their decision to charge or not charge the grandfather.  What I am saying is that if the GF had been honest, instead of changing his initial story and taken full responsibility, the authorities might not have charged him.  But when he began mouthing off to every camera how it wasn't his fault, that may have had an impact.

 

I mean, if I am the prosecutor and I see a very upset and contrite GF taking responsibility for his actions, I am much more likely to take the approach of "He has suffered enough" rather than charging him.  If he insists that RC is at fault, I am much more likely to proceed with charges.


Cheers

Edited by Wheels87

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5 hours ago, WeLuvVacation said:

Based on the video I just looked at of the event.........

The GF leaned OUT the window first, second after a few moments he picks up the GD and proceeds to put her OUT the window by extending his arms out at full length while leaning over the hand railing. Third after some time he brings his arms back into the ship without the GD. Fourth after another few moments he reacts and collapses to the ground causing the other people on the deck to run to the window. The video speaks for itself the GF is 100% totally NEGLIGENT in the death of his Step GD. These are all facts as the video CLEARLY shows. I've served on many juries and this video is damning evidence against the GF. He should be charged with negligent homicide (manslaughter) at the very least. 

Totally agree!!

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