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Toddler Death Law Suit Update

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52 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

As for people going through glass doors when they don’t realize they are closed, those doors are not blocked with protective railings. 

 

We were being facetious a few posts back. 😛

 

Seriously, thinking that there is no glass or that a door/window is open (when it is closed) is not the same as thinking there is glass or that a door/window is closed (when it is open).

 

A clean window can look like the window is open.

A dirty air cannot look like a window is closed...especially if it wasn't closed a few seconds ago when you leaned out of it.

 

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2 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

We were being facetious a few posts back. 😛

 

Seriously, thinking that there is no glass or that a door/window is open (when it is closed) is not the same as thinking there is glass or that a door/window is closed (when it is open).

 

A clean window can look like the window is open.

A dirty air cannot look like a window is closed...especially if it wasn't closed a few seconds ago when you leaned out of it.

 

If he saw something to show GD when he leaned out of the window he would have realised how high up he was and how far from the ground.

To take a risk of holding the GD out of the window was grossly dangerous and irresponsible and I'm sure he wouldn't like someone holding him out of the window in a similar way so how did he think it would be fun for the poor little girl.

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8 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

I'm sure he wouldn't like someone holding him out of the window in a similar way.

 

IMO, that should be GF's punishment, if (hopefully when) found guilty.

 

But not to the extent of dropping him.

Edited by Another_Critic

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1 hour ago, JennyB1977 said:

@Another_Critic Watched again and I stand corrected. Good eyes!

 

For those curious I googled "la comay" "chloe" "video" then scrolled down the results to the post from Dec. 17, 2019 that is is 16:28 in duration.

 

This video is even more upsetting.  You can see the sunlight hitting his head when he leans out and the sunlight hitting her when he lifts her up and over the railing.  To me this video is even more damning then the one Royal released.

 

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57 minutes ago, FLACRUISER99 said:

However I'm sure early 50's is elderly to some of the posters on this board.🙄


Damn, I’m read for my pension at that rate. 

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For more context on the 'elderly' and 'silver-haired' stuff, we are essentially making fun of a Daily Mail article from yesterday. They went out of their way to paint GF in a sympathetic (and feeble) light, probably because the family gave them an exclusive statement. 

 

 

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On 1/17/2020 at 12:25 PM, SRF said:

In the safety world, we do not use the term "accident."  Accident implies that there was no way to prevent it from happens.  We use the term "mishap."

 

In the work world, about 85% of mishaps are caused by unsafe actions by the people.  Only about 1% are "accidents" where there was no way to predict or prevent it come occurring.

 

And most mishaps (and I have investigated a number of them, including several fatalities) are a chain of events where little things were done wrong or went wrong or people did not think.  And in most cases, fixing any one of the things in this chain, can prevent a similar mishap in the future.

I guess the problem with fixing any number of events in that chain is that society often has to fix the links that are the least effective.  Like how buses must now stop at every railroad, because some bus driver once carelessly crossed the tracks.  Or how aspirin bottle tops are very difficult to remove now, etc.  Or the silly "do not eat" lawyer labels on all kinds of objects.

 

The higher probability fix is a good bus driver, aspirin kept out of reach of children, etc.  I'm not passing judgement on this grandpa, but the fix will probably be inoperable windows, or grates over the windows.

 

RIP to the toddler

Edited by mpk

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23 minutes ago, MaddyandMax said:

To me this video is even more damning then the one Royal released.

 

RCCL released the back and side angles and the quality is a bit better than the PR TV release (not watermarked as much). David Begnaud has commented on those angles and it seems that he'd really like to interview Anello again. CBS hasn't shown the full videos, though.

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1 hour ago, boscobeans said:

But he leaned OUT of that very same window just seconds before holding the child out of it.

I am in agreement with you.

 

I forgot the 😉

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1 hour ago, MaddyandMax said:

 

This video is even more upsetting.  You can see the sunlight hitting his head when he leans out and the sunlight hitting her when he lifts her up and over the railing.  To me this video is even more damning then the one Royal released.

 

 

 

Oh my - I hadn't seen the full video.  It seems that he was holding her up for some time; he never noticed the wind in his face?

 

What a terrible tragedy for all.  

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31 minutes ago, flamingos said:

 

 

Oh my - I hadn't seen the full video.  It seems that he was holding her up for some time; he never noticed the wind in his face?

 

What a terrible tragedy for all.  

 

This is where I have an issue, whether he actually put his head or Chloe out the window, being that close and bending over like he did I don't see how he didn't feel the breeze, or even just nitice a difference in the air to know the window was open.  She did not need to be out the window to fall thru it, toddlers squirm and reach for things all the time which is why you don't put them anywhere near such a potential hazard. 

 

I fear for the days we won't be able to get anywhere near the edge of a ship due to silly lawsuits such as this one.  Unfortunately we live in a society where very few take responsibility for themselves and need to be told things could be dangerous.

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7 minutes ago, akcruz said:

I fear for the days we won't be able to get anywhere near the edge of a ship due to silly lawsuits such as this one.  Unfortunately we live in a society where very few take responsibility for themselves and need to be told things could be dangerous.

 

If you notice with new ship builds, the "look straight down to the water" view from a balcony has been reduced or eliminated.

IMO, too many people have fallen into the water because of stupid behavior. 

Edited by Two Wheels Only

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13 minutes ago, akcruz said:

 

This is where I have an issue, whether he actually put his head or Chloe out the window, being that close and bending over like he did I don't see how he didn't feel the breeze, or even just nitice a difference in the air to know the window was open.  She did not need to be out the window to fall thru it, toddlers squirm and reach for things all the time which is why you don't put them anywhere near such a potential hazard. 

 

 

 

If you recall, they said that the  little girl used to go to brother's (?) hockey practice and bang on the glass.  That is what they originally speculated happened.  But I never saw the full video - it was almost a full minute that she was in that window.  How incredibly awful.

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2 minutes ago, flamingos said:

 

If you recall, they said that the  little girl used to go to brother's (?) hockey practice and bang on the glass.  That is what they originally speculated happened.  But I never saw the full video - it was almost a full minute that she was in that window.  How incredibly awful.

I don’t understand why the parents would continue if they even look at the video. Do they think it’s totally inaccurate or fraudulent?  Yes, more evidence could be introduced, but I don’t think that would matter to most parents. He held the child outside of the window. As a parent- if I was supporting him before the video, I would just walk out of whatever meeting we were having at the time - after seeing the video. I’m not sure when or if I would come back to talk anytime soon. 

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1 minute ago, madiaka said:

I don’t understand why the parents would continue if they even look at the video. Do they think it’s totally inaccurate or fraudulent?  Yes, more evidence could be introduced, but I don’t think that would matter to most parents. He held the child outside of the window. As a parent- if I was supporting him before the video, I would just walk out of whatever meeting we were having at the time - after seeing the video. I’m not sure when or if I would come back to talk anytime soon. 

Even more questionable considering father is a police officer and mother is a DA.

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4 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

As for people going through glass doors when they don’t realize they are closed, those doors are not blocked with protective railings. 


I was the one who brought that subject up, and in my case, I was pointing out that the OPPOSITE of this situation happens sometimes, but never THIS type of situation.

We see people run into glass that was clear.... but when do we have people think there's glass there that's not really there?  NEVER (unless it was part of a prank where they were led to believe that there was glass there)!!!!   When do you see people try to open a window that's already open?  NEVER!!!!

Nobody ever mistakenly thinks that open air is glass.  It just doesn't happen.  The whole "I thought there was glass" defense is totally unbelievable no matter how you look at it.  

 

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3 hours ago, MaddyandMax said:

This video is even more upsetting.  You can see the sunlight hitting his head when he leans out and the sunlight hitting her when he lifts her up and over the railing.  To me this video is even more damning then the one Royal released.


Exactly.  
 

The sunlight hitting the top of his head tells us that he put his head OUT of the window, and he knew fully well that the window was open.  

Case closed. 

The parents are money-grubbers, plain and simple.  And Winkleman should be disbarred.

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Amazing how lawyers talk out of both sides of mouth.  Maintain that an almost 6' man can't stick his head out window or reach far enough to put child on edge yet insist faulty ship design puts children at risk of falling out.

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5 hours ago, SRF said:

If 51 is elderly, I am dead.

I remember growing up anything over 40 was old. 40 is Middle Aged, 50 get AARP card, Discounts start. .... I'm 54 now, it's not old, just feel it some days. Always took care my Chevelle's, Cutlass/442 and Malibu Muscle Cars, maybe should done same with myself. At least retired my Speedo worn Cruises 35yrs ago, one that many older still Model...

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8 hours ago, rusty nut said:

I

On a second note, why can't RCI get better cameras? 4k, 30fps. Come on, storage space is cheap these days, especially for a multi billion dollar company.  

 

I have said it before and photography and video work is a big hobby of mine. Storage for that is extremely expensive. You are looking at 12Gb for 18 minutes at 4K. The video needs to be saved for some time. In that case storage would have to be huge. Then there is the question of solid state drives or the old hard drives. Even the solid state drives have a lifetime limit. To multiply this cost to the number of cameras on the ship and then the number of ships and the cost would be massive not to mention the hours of work that staff need to be paid to manage all that data.

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10 minutes ago, Brisbane41 said:

To multiply this cost to the number of cameras on the ship and then the number of ships and the cost would be massive


This is the part that I think people overlook... in order to have coverage of the whole entire ship, you're probably talking about a few hundred cameras on one ship alone....

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1 hour ago, brillohead said:


Exactly.  
 

The sunlight hitting the top of his head tells us that he put his head OUT of the window, and he knew fully well that the window was open.  

Case closed. 

The parents are money-grubbers, plain and simple.  And Winkleman should be disbarred.

I found the longer video that someone else referenced and it is even more disturbing. There are multiple windows open. There is a clear bright patch of light coming in while the others are dark. Easy to distinguish. The video looking from behind actually shows him lift her out way beyond the frame. He then lifts her up and down, up and down, then drops her. The criminal charges so far a correct. Negligence. If it is something more sinister then I hope it is found out asap.

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Is this longer video on you tube or somewhere else?

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1 minute ago, cgolf1 said:

Is this longer video on you tube or somewhere else?

I typed the following: la comay chloe video into google and it came up as a video suggestion Dec 17, 2019 with facebook as the place it was published. Title IMPACTANTE | iVideo exclusivo dentro del crucero cuando el abuelo........

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1 hour ago, brillohead said:


Exactly.  
 

The sunlight hitting the top of his head tells us that he put his head OUT of the window, and he knew fully well that the window was open.  

Case closed. 

The parents are money-grubbers, plain and simple.  And Winkleman should be disbarred.

Just because sunlight is hitting his head does NOT automatically mean his head was out of the window (unless the sun was on the other side of the ship).  The sun's rays would go through the window and could hit his head even if he is just standing at the rail.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think GF is 100% to blame, just that sunlight hitting his head is no proof of anything (other than he was close to a window).  

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