Jump to content

Crystal & the Corona Virus


Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, NottheMonkey said:

Technically, you are right.  Flu kills more people but also affects many more.  At well over 15,000,000 affected, 35,000 deaths annually is under 0.2% mortality rate.  This outbreak is currently above 2%.   Flu is the worse threat on pure numbers, but this is worse on the ratio. Still not as bad of odds as many other medical chances people take but it's all relative.  😉

I'm not sure what you are trying to convey, but I stand by what I wrote.  Regardless of how you dice and slice the numbers, influenza was a lot more infectious than the 2002 SARS coronavirus, and because of that reason, not too many people who were presumably exposed to those infected contracted the disease.  The overall threat of particular viral disease is the combination (more or less the product) of the "infectivity" of the virus and the mortality rate of those infected by the virus.   Both of these numbers are important, not just one.

 

Because the influenza virus is so infectious, it is a much greater threat to our lives than even the current novel coronavirus, which may (or may not) have a higher mortality rate among the SYMPTOMATIC PATIENTS CURRENTLY IDENTIFIED IN CHINA.  All in all, the 2002 SARS coronavirus did not turn out to be as some of us feared it to be, which is a good thing. .  Also, in a new outbreak of a novel virus infection, it is extremely difficult to calculate the mortality rate, especially if we don't know whether there are many cases of asymptomatic infections, as well as incomplete data on actual number of those infected...meaning that there is a good chance that the denominator of the fraction may be much larger than we know so far.  The virology experts, based on examination of the current (2019) novel coronavirus from China, thinks that it is not as infectious as even the 2002 SARS virus, so, so far, it's a good news.

Edited by Psoque
typos
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Psoque said:

Because the influenza virus is so infectious, it is a much greater threat to our lives than even the current novel coronavirus, 

 

While I cannot argue your logic, I don't think the point that "eh, you're more likely to die of something else" will be persuasive to many people.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, KenzSailing said:

 

While I cannot argue your logic, I don't think the point that "eh, you're more likely to die of something else" will be persuasive to many people.  

Yes, people with poor understanding of epidemiology will come to that conclusion.  Bless their hearts!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking with several officers onboard yesterday, they expressed concern over the entire Symphony Asian season prior to the Singapore dry dock in April. The situation is still evolving and no specific information is yet confirmed or available. The corporate staffs in LA, Miami and HK are apparently all working overtime on the behind-the-scenes logistics for this unique and unusual event.

 

Rob

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, crimlaw@ecentral.com said:

Rob - do you mean they expressed concern that the cruises may be cancelled, like our March 1 cruise?

 

" The situation is still evolving and no specific information is yet confirmed or available. "

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, ryndam said:

Speaking with several officers onboard yesterday, they expressed concern over the entire Symphony Asian season prior to the Singapore dry dock in April. The situation is still evolving and no specific information is yet confirmed or available. The corporate staffs in LA, Miami and HK are apparently all working overtime on the behind-the-scenes logistics for this unique and unusual event.

 

Rob

 

That's not a fun project, though of course it pales in comparison to what the infected patients are going through.  It's been a while, but I can remember Crystal moving the ships to other regions in the past, when issues of health, safety and solvency(mass cancellations) have popped up.  With the need for the ship to be in Singapore in 2+ months, the coronavirus outbreak, the measles outbreak, and the Australian Wildfires, and last minute port availability, there are not a lot of easy choices to be made.  :classic_sad:

 

Vince

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Psoque said:

Yes, people with poor understanding of epidemiology will come to that conclusion.  Bless their hearts!

WOW... I see that the virus is not only in China but spreading to other countries. I see that countries like Germany and Spain, are flying their nationals out of Wuhan. I have not seen this happen with influenza. I guess this has to do with my poor understanding...

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

WOW... I see that the virus is not only in China but spreading to other countries. I see that countries like Germany and Spain, are flying their nationals out of Wuhan. I have not seen this happen with influenza. I guess this has to do with my poor understanding...

Evacuating people the way they have been doing with the current 2019-nCov coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan Province sort of (but not exactly... more on that later) makes sense, but in the case of influenza, it spreads around the earth so fast that any evacuation would be totally useless.  But decisions to evacuate the Wuhan Province was made mainly based on hysteria and political climate, as well a little bit of racism/xenophobia mixed-in, not based on rigorous science.  I am not exactly sure this mass movement of (non-Chinese, mainly) expats to their home countries would be a good idea.  It might help spread the virus more.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Has this announcement from Crystal been in writing or just from the captain? The Genting ships in HK and other Asian ports are for the Asian market, hence they don’t want people from the affected areas travelling which will spread the virus. A few Genting ships that come and go from HK are purely gambling ships for the Chinese as they are not allowed to gamble in China. Those ships leave for a few days and then return to HK. I can understand that those ships have had their trips cancelled. The logistics of turn around in Taiwan which also has cases of the virus is ludicrous in my opinion. It’s normal flu season in that part of the world, and people die from any flu. Would Crystal change itineraries  for all the other flu in the world. I don’t think so. I think the world is in a bit of panic, media driven as well. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thebenz said:

Has this announcement from Crystal been in writing or just from the captain? The Genting ships in HK and other Asian ports are for the Asian market, hence they don’t want people from the affected areas travelling which will spread the virus. A few Genting ships that come and go from HK are purely gambling ships for the Chinese as they are not allowed to gamble in China. Those ships leave for a few days and then return to HK. I can understand that those ships have had their trips cancelled. The logistics of turn around in Taiwan which also has cases of the virus is ludicrous in my opinion. It’s normal flu season in that part of the world, and people die from any flu. Would Crystal change itineraries  for all the other flu in the world. I don’t think so. I think the world is in a bit of panic, media driven as well. 

We are on the Hong Kong to Singapore leg. We have not yet been notified by Crystal (or our travel agent) about the change, but when I logged in to our cruise planner on the Crystal site, they had changed the port from Hong Kong to Taipei, with a later departure time scheduled and arriving in Halong Bay a day later (and only one day in Danang instead of two) So it looks like it's a done deal. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Psoque- I am also a physician with over  40 years experience in family medicine and agree with your opinions. In those years,  the world of infectious disease has exploded  with  new diseases and mutations challenging our ability to control all in the increasingly small world we inhabit.. During my residency years, AIDS became recognized!

Still people do not take immunizations which will decrease their susceptibility to common infectious disease and many die of complications of influenza, pneumococcal pneumonia , hepatitis, shingles, measles etc.  Measles is rampant in the Samoan Islands and other South Pacific areas.,  Yellow fever, malaria and hepatitis are still threats in the areas we Crystal  family members venture .

 

I think Crystal is being prudent in removing the stop in Hong Kong.   As inconvenient as it is and a rescheduling nightmare- (which would freak me out) - it is proactive.  One good thing- so far the mortality rate is much less than SARS. However, this emerging viral infection may mutate over a short period of time.  The US had shipped large quantities of anti-viral medications to China although we do not know how effective they will be.   Already United Airlines , Intercontinental Hotels and Wynn casinos have taken a financial hit.

 

Of the alternative disembarkation locales, at the present time Taiwan does appear to be favorable as opposed to HK.

These are just my personal opinions and I encourage patience and acceptance in dealing with these events.  I do think Crystal has utilized multiple sources in making this determination.  I also think they will issue a policy regarding Chinese and  residents of the area embarking on the ship.  It has been stated one may be symptom free for 2 weeks. This is an issue 

which must be addressed by very smart medical and legal minds..

 

I am due to join the WC in Mumbai on 3 April. Some friends are now on board or will join in the coming ports. Will

wait and see what develops,.

 

Good health and hope for safety for all

Link to post
Share on other sites

This Situation really has me worried. We live in Singapore where there are now about 7 confirmed cases from Tourists from Wuhan and finding surgical mask in stock is very very difficult and frustrating at the moment...  it could be just panic but people here are definitely very concerned and things are much more quiet than usual. 
My family members are due to join Symphony in Manila in a week time and now it seems that Hong Kong has been changed to Taipei and no email yet from TA or Crystal confirning this. This will cause logistical headache for us rearranging new flights since we did air independently. 
And then there this uncertainty in the air that Crystal or whole cruises to Asia in near future might change Plans again and again Since this situation is developing fast by hours... a week ago we were more worried about the Volcano eruption in Manila than this Virus.... 😭


Wish Crystal offer the passengers Doing Asia in near future the option of refunding/changing the cruise to future ones instead rather than Having passengers deal with so many uncertainties and put everyone on the risk.

Cruise won’t be that enjoyable  either...  even on beloved Symphony. 
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, thebenz said:

Has this announcement from Crystal been in writing or just from the captain? The Genting ships in HK and other Asian ports are for the Asian market, hence they don’t want people from the affected areas travelling which will spread the virus. A few Genting ships that come and go from HK are purely gambling ships for the Chinese as they are not allowed to gamble in China. Those ships leave for a few days and then return to HK. I can understand that those ships have had their trips cancelled. The logistics of turn around in Taiwan which also has cases of the virus is ludicrous in my opinion. It’s normal flu season in that part of the world, and people die from any flu. Would Crystal change itineraries  for all the other flu in the world. I don’t think so. I think the world is in a bit of panic, media driven as well. 


Are you on the ship now? We are. I have been reporting what is happening onboard right now. If you are not onboard, please keep your speculations, observations, opinions and cynicism to other social media. It serves no purpose and will not alter what is occurring onboard right now.
 

There was a corporate decision to eliminate Hong Kong. The captain reported it to all of us onboard, in order that those of us leaving the ship on 2/15 can make alternative plans. The atmosphere on board remains friendly, upbeat and congenial.


Rob

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/27/2020 at 8:44 PM, neilridd said:

The vaccination was for measles.

We are scheduled on the Singapore to Hong Kong cruise leaving Singapore on 1st.March but have flights booked to/from Hong kong with 3 days in Hong Kong pre-cruise. Hoping UK government advise against travel to Hong Kong & we can claim on insurance.

 

Good luck with a potential insurance claim. 

 

We are booked on Symphony for the 16th March Hong Kong to Shanghai and back cruise and we have been told by our insurers here in Australia that even if the Australian government issues a "Do Not Travel" advisory the insurer will still treat any claim for cancellation as cancellation for "personal reasons" and therefore not allowable.     Can't even buy a new travel policy as the Insurance Council here is Australia has declared the outbreak of Coronavirus as a known risk from 22nd January and therefore insurers will not accept any claim on policies written after that date for loss or expence incurred as a result of the virus.

 

Garry⛴️⛴️ 

Link to post
Share on other sites

And what do most passengers do disembarking at Taipei ??  Fly to Hong Kong to catch their scheduled pre booked flight.

 

And what do most embarking passengers do to reach Taipei.  Take their pre booked flight to Hong Kong, overnight and then fly to Taipei from Hong Kong.

 

So what do these measures do -- Nothing...  There have been 5 cases reported in HKG (as of the 25th) all from people traveling from Wuhan.  How many cases in Taiwan??  (12 were in quarantine with suspected symptoms).   I would be more concerned with stopping in Taiwan.  Taiwan is shut out from the WHO and would have a harder time dealing with the disease.

Edited by PaulMCO
Link to post
Share on other sites

Three major airlines have canceled flights to Asia.  We really liked the itinerary over the holidays but we are canceling on advice of an infectious disease doctor we know.  He told us why take a chance until they know what is going on and put ourselves in harms way.

We both have our Pneumonia and flu shots every year.  This virus may mutate as was the case with HIV.  The flu vaccine changes every year because of new strains.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

And what do most passengers do disembarking at Taipei ??  Fly to Hong Kong to catch their scheduled pre booked flight.

 

And what do most embarking passengers do to reach Taipei.  Take their pre booked flight to Hong Kong, overnight and then fly to Taipei from Hong Kong.

 

So what do these measures do -- Nothing...  There have been 5 cases reported in HKG (as of the 25th) all from people traveling from Wuhan.  How many cases in Taiwan??  (12 were in quarantine with suspected symptoms).   I would be more concerned with stopping in Taiwan.  Taiwan is shut out from the WHO and would have a harder time dealing with the disease.

 

I am disembarking in Taiwan and was able to change my flight from Hong Kong to Taiwan back to the US (on a US carrier) with no problem. I don't know that everyone will have it as easy as I did, but United was very accommodating.

 

Patty

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rob thank you  for your reports.

 

They have not  only  been informative  to those not on the cruise  but to those who are on one of the cruises which involved Hong Kong and provided them with a good heads up on this before the revisions were finalized.

 

Your sentiment about how people are dealing with this is consistent to what we've heard from others on board Symphony.

 

In short you deal with the cards you've been dealt  and  make the best of it. 

 

As to travel  plans  involving  Hong Kong or other parts of China.    If I  had  near-term plans  I certainly would not go but I am not sure I would change long  term plans until the medical community knows a  lot more and the travel industry with  advice from the state department, and worldwide health  organizations knows more and provide guidance.  Each time we plan  travel for next  year and  the years after we do not  know what event may happen  whether  it is  health related, or  there are demonstrations or terrorist activities or acts of g-d (I purposely use g-d) such as from  a volcano cyclone, hurricane, earthquake, etc.  

 

Keith

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Forum Assistance
      • SPECIAL EVENT: Q&A with RiverCruising, the River Cruise Experts
      • Q&A: Cruise Insurance with Steve Dasseos of TripInsuranceStore.com
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...