HAL's Poor Response to Corona Virus

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Apparently the first Italy case was not connected to any cruise line.   The first 2 cases were brought in by  two Chinese tourists.  But the big cluster in the North was traced to an Italian who had been repatriated from Wuhan, China and later found to been carrying the virus.

 

Hank

Are you really positive it was not from the air conditioning units on a cruise ship? <GRIN>

[RocketMan275]

On 2/18/2020 at 6:39 PM, kazu said:

It’s not HAL’s fault but they have to deal with the conundrum and rather than procrastinate it would be nice IMO if they made decisions for more than one cruise at a time.  It’s only fair to those booked.  JMO of course.

If they did as  you, and others, have suggested, we would have at least fifteen threads criticizing that decision and demanding that the cruise line wait until the last minute to decide because things might change.

[kazu]

7 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

If they did as  you, and others, have suggested, we would have at least fifteen threads criticizing that decision and demanding that the cruise line wait until the last minute to decide because things might change.

 

Well, HAL did indeed cancel all the remaining Asian cruises for this spring/summer season with one announcement and I haven’t seen a bunch of threads complaining about it 😉   I think most people are relieved to know one way or the other.

 

 

 

[Floridiana]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

But the big cluster in the North was traced to an Italian who had been repatriated from Wuhan, China and later found to been carrying the virus.

 

According to the  reputable Swiss newspaper Neue Zuericher Zeitung, the person came from Shanghai and did not carry the virus. "Patient 0" is still an unknown entity; nobody knows so far who infected the first Italian patient, called Patient 1. He, however, was out and about and infected many others, especially since he had no symptoms and no idea he was carrying the virus. When he went to the hospital, nobody suspected Covid-19 until medical personnel and other patients were infected. There is no link to cruises or cruise lines.

https://www.nzz.ch/international/mailand-coronavirus-epidemie-begann-in-spital-ld.1542330

 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Floridiana

[Hlitner]

6 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Well, HAL did indeed cancel all the remaining Asian cruises for this spring/summer season with one announcement and I haven’t seen a bunch of threads complaining about it 😉   I think most people are relieved to know one way or the other.

 

 

 

We were among those scheduled to be on the Westerdam for thirty days embarking from Yokohama on April 11.  Last Thursday HAL made the cancellation official, although many of us expected the cancellation for some time.  Many of us are obviously disappointed, but none of the blame falls on HAL....whose only misstep might have been waiting a bit too long to cancel.   Personally we are relieved because we had concerns about many ports and land-based attractions being closed.  HAL has earned our thanks for quickly refunding our entire cruise payment and Flight Ease air payment.   On some other social media we have seen nothing but praise for HAL.  

 

Hank

[TriumphGuy]

We're booked on an April 2020 TA to Amsterdam. Right now I figure there's about a 50/50 chance of this cruise actually taking place to anywhere in Europe. I just hope if they cancel we get some notice, as we have extended travel plans to France after the cruise.

We're way beyond final payment at this point. (final payment was about 5 days before the virus became public knowledge).

My bigger fear is that we will not be let back into the US without a 14 day quarantine. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

[kazu]

20 minutes ago, TriumphGuy said:

We're booked on an April 2020 TA to Amsterdam. Right now I figure there's about a 50/50 chance of this cruise actually taking place to anywhere in Europe. I just hope if they cancel we get some notice, as we have extended travel plans to France after the cruise.

We're way beyond final payment at this point. (final payment was about 5 days before the virus became public knowledge).

My bigger fear is that we will not be let back into the US without a 14 day quarantine. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

 

I feel for you.

 

We’re in the same boat - paid and this virus had not been heard of at the time and we disembark from Civitavecchia and fly from Rome to Galicia.  

I’m waiting as you.  If it’s risky, I’ll forfeit the money but if it’s localized, then we’re going

It’s nerve wracking but what can we do?  

[TriumphGuy]

19 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

I feel for you.

 

We’re in the same boat - paid and this virus had not been heard of at the time and we disembark from Civitavecchia and fly from Rome to Galicia.  

I’m waiting as you.  If it’s risky, I’ll forfeit the money but if it’s localized, then we’re going

It’s nerve wracking but what can we do?  

Not much, I'm afraid. I'm hoping that HAL will do the right thing and cancel  or offer another cruise at a later date, if it comes down to the wire and Europe cannot contain the spread.
I contacted my doc today to ask about the second pneumonia vaccine shot I'm supposed to get after my 66th birthday, (which is in May, after the cruise), and whether he thought I should get it now. He said he would order it for me.
Not sure it will do any good, but can't hurt.
 

Edited February 25, 2020 by TriumphGuy

[1ANGELCAT]

7 minutes ago, TriumphGuy said:

Not much, I'm afraid. I'm hoping that HAL will do the right thing and cancel  or offer another cruise at a later date, if it comes down to the wire and Europe cannot contain the spread.
I contacted my doc today to ask about the second pneumonia vaccine shot I'm supposed to get after my 66th birthday, (which is in May, after the cruise), and whether he thought I should get it now. He said he would order it for me.
Not sure it will do any good, but can't hurt.
 

I’m on the crossing with Kazu. I’m very much on the  fence since it has now spread to Italy. I fly fromRome to London and then to US. Heathrow is a zoo to start with , let alone if this continues to spread. 
All my air is thru HAL and my hotel in FLL has a 24 Hr cancel policy . I have HAL insurance so I’d lose 10% total. 
All we can do is wait and hope.

[sail7seas]

CDC  announced today, it is not a matter  if U.S.will experience many more  cases of corona virus but when..

 

One can logically extend that declaration to include. Canada  (IMO)

 

 

Anyone planning cruises or travel should be willing  to  roll with 'changes and interruptions ' to their plans.

some of us  have yet to reach final payment date and some likely will  think carefully before going forward with that payment depending upon conditions at the time.  This hit to travel  possibly could rival the losses after 9-11,   Survival of the fittest...  law of nature.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sail7seas]

On 1/30/2020 at 6:48 PM, npcl said:

For that matter just think back to the Swine Flu outbreak in 2009 when a number of Mexican Riviera cruises turns in to California Coastal cruises. That is probably the closest example of cruise routes changed due to an outbreak.

 

United Airlines made getting to Japan even harder as they cancelled  flights to Japan, if I heard correctly and I think I did  good luck to all whom this may impact.

 

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

Edited February 29, 2020 by sail7seas

[iancal]

Airlines will cancel flights because traffic is extremely low.  I expect that there will be more cancellations on various routes by various carriers.

[mammy123]

Don't know if I should be asking this here or not, but I'll give it a shot.  Has anyone heard anything regarding this virus as far as it being in the Caribbean?  We are headed that way in a couple of weeks and are now debating on whether to cancel or not.  We  are driving there and would hate to get quarentined.  I hate that this is ruining everyone's cruises.  

 

 

[Hlitner]

23 minutes ago, mammy123 said:

Don't know if I should be asking this here or not, but I'll give it a shot.  Has anyone heard anything regarding this virus as far as it being in the Caribbean?  We are headed that way in a couple of weeks and are now debating on whether to cancel or not.  We  are driving there and would hate to get quarentined.  I hate that this is ruining everyone's cruises.  

 

 

The virus does not seem to be an issue in the Caribbean.  But the big issue for cruisers is there is a growing tendency of ports to deny docking or embarkation to ships that have any passengers with symptoms that might be COVID-19...even if it not.  Aida, Fred Olsen and MSC have all had ships denied in the last few days.  While the cruise lines think this is an overreaction the islands seem to be taking a very cautious stance.

 

Hank

[sail7seas]

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The virus does not seem to be an issue in the Caribbean.  But the big issue for cruisers is there is a growing tendency of ports to deny docking or embarkation to ships that have any passengers with symptoms that might be COVID-19...even if it not.  Aida, Fred Olsen and MSC have all had ships denied in the last few days.  While the cruise lines think this is an overreaction the islands seem to be taking a very cautious stance.

 

Hank

 

 

We need not ONLY worrry about where cases of the virus haave been cofirmed..  we need ro concern ourseles with who else is on the ship where have they been?  Have they been exposed or are  incubating illness?    are infectious?

 

 

[sail7seas]

On 1/30/2020 at 2:41 PM, epixx said:

 

I would suggest something different.  People who would like reimbursement for itinerary change but would be willing to sail on an alternate itinerary should purchase cruise insurance that specifically reimburses for itinerary change, rather than expecting the cruise line to pay for compensation.  There is no reason for the cruise lines to pay customers for itinerary change, when this possibility is already clearly documented in the cruise contract and when this type of insurance is readily available.

Through the years and so many cruises, like most who cruise ofen, we have experienced itinerary changes and  it nefer othered us all that much as I don' t think we  missed ports that we cared all that much.  None of that devastated us.

 

i don't  much care about   cancel for any  reason coverage.    The ONLY  cruises we cancelled were   for covered reason, illness/surgery

 

That ( and other  reasons)   is what cancellation insurance is designed and sold for

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

 

 

[sail7seas]

On 2/18/2020 at 6:51 PM, kazu said:

 

I feel for everyone who have cruises booked in Asia in the upcoming months.

 

NCL pulled out completely until the end of December.  While that might be considered overly cautious, I think it was prudent.  At least the people booked on cruises know where they stand and can plan accordingly rather than wait cruise by cruise.  And the cruise line can move on and plan new itineraries.

HAL has posted on their FB page that the cruises are under consideration, thanked people for their patience and said they will announce shortly.

 

Just my personal opinion, but I think they would be wise to pull out for at least March if not the rest of the season.

Better to do that than another fiasco like they are having with the Westerdam and I am sure high costs as those passengers wait to go home.  If they do sail, who will want to go?  the virus right now shows no signs of being contained and it is highly unlikely Japan will let any ship dock - they have announced they will not.

 

 

 

Japan has not yet announced what will be in terms of the    Tokyo  Olympics                                             

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ldog]

We have insurance coverage for if we get sick.  It's not possible to buy it for if the world gets sick.  sigh

[sail7seas]

7 hours ago, ldog said:

We have insurance coverage for if we get sick.  It's not possible to buy it for if the world gets sick.  sigh

 

Does anyone here know of a cruiser who had bought travel insurance, tested positive for the virus, was quarantined , insurance would not pay and they got hit with   a big   medical bill ?  THAT would be truly awful. 

 

[mrmoviezombie]

Normal travel insurance has exclusions that apply for COVID19. It's an epidemic, as well as a "known" event, both of which are typically excluded.

[sail7seas]

7 hours ago, mrmoviezombie said:

Normal travel insurance has exclusions that apply for COVID19. It's an epidemic, as well as a "known" event, both of which are typically excluded.

What if the known event  occurs many months after the purchase and payment for  the insurance?

 

The now known event did not exist when the company sold  the insurance.  Corona virus was unknown until relatively recently

 

 

 

Does anyone know of an actual cruiser whose insurer refused a medical claim related to corona virus ?

 

 

[cruisemom42]

51 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

What if the known event  occurs many months after the purchase and payment for  the insurance?

 

The now known event did not exist when the company sold  the insurance.  Corona virus was unknown until relatively recently

 

 

 

Does anyone know of an actual cruiser whose insurer refused a medical claim related to corona virus ?

 

 

 

A great number of policies cover themselves by excluding "epidemics".  They do not specify cause.

 

If your policy excludes cancellation due to an epidemic (which is generally defined further in some way, such as meeting certain CDC or WHO criteria), whether or not it is or was a known event, you are not covered.

 

[Hlitner]

41 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

A great number of policies cover themselves by excluding "epidemics".  They do not specify cause.

 

If your policy excludes cancellation due to an epidemic (which is generally defined further in some way, such as meeting certain CDC or WHO criteria), whether or not it is or was a known event, you are not covered.

 

A travel consumer group we follow just did a summary of some major travel insurance providers.  They pointed out that MOST Major travel insurance companies do NOT provide coverage for declared epidemics which would now include COVID-19.  These policies apparently include Allianz, Travel Guard, Berkshire Hathaway, Generali Global Assist, etc.  Even our own travel health policy makes it clear that although they do include medical coverage during epidemics, they may deny claims if one travels to an announced infected area and does not take steps to immediately evacuate if a "warning to leave" has been issued by the US Government.  

 

Since policies can vary folks need to carefully read the policy being careful to look at fine print parts like the definitions and exclusions.  

 

Some folks have been shocked to learn that their cancellation policies might exclude cancellation related to an epidemic.

 

Hank

[TriumphGuy]

6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

A travel consumer group we follow just did a summary of some major travel insurance providers.  They pointed out that MOST Major travel insurance companies do NOT provide coverage for declared epidemics which would now include COVID-19.  These policies apparently include Allianz, Travel Guard, Berkshire Hathaway, Generali Global Assist, etc.  Even our own travel health policy makes it clear that although they do include medical coverage during epidemics, they may deny claims if one travels to an announced infected area and does not take steps to immediately evacuate if a "warning to leave" has been issued by the US Government.  

 

Since policies can vary folks need to carefully read the policy being careful to look at fine print parts like the definitions and exclusions.  

 

Some folks have been shocked to learn that their cancellation policies might exclude cancellation related to an epidemic.

 

Hank

I read through our policies (US Fire Gold) and nowhere did it even mention the terms "epidemic or pandemic". The terms "Travel Advisory and Travel Warning" are listed in the Definitions but they apply only to evacuation due to Terrorism, Natural Disaster, Hurricane Warning.
One easy way to drill down in your policy is to use the "Find" feature in your pdf reader and look for keywords such as described above. Saves a lot of time.
I can't see where they would deny medical treatment coverage or medical evacuation due to illness. It is not a cancellation policy, (although it does provide some cancellation coverage) but we did not buy it specifically for that.

[CJcruzer]

My travel agent advised me as of today, March 5 - travel insurance companies are NOT covering trip interruption coverage due to Corona virus,  The best bet is cancel for any reason insurance right now, but once your trip begins, any interruptions or changes probably would not be covered if due to impact of Corona virus.  We did not even get into specifics regarding medical portion of any insurance coverage.

 

Yes the cruiselines have been proactive in some ways, but everyone has to measure the value/loss of having their travel plans affected by Corona virus,   

 

Of course everyone should check what their insurance will cover, and perhaps some are “grandfathered” in on older policies, paid for prior to this situation.  But always best to find out where you would stand, IF......

 

Carol

Edited March 5, 2020 by CJcruzer