PRINCESS SHIPS & CORONA VIRUS

[leck57]

47 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

I am not aware that we can buy "cancel for any reason" insurance in Australia.  

I know travel insurance doesn't usually cover you for any event once it is publicly known.  

Which cruise are you cruising on?  Any chance it may be cancelled by the cruise line?

 

Yes you can buy Cancel for any Reason insurance in Australia. The company that provides this cover is often offered by the big two travel firms here. I have it for my next two cruise trips. The policy has heaps of paragraphs about exclusions for viruses/pandemics etc, however Cancel for any Reason is just that, any reason, and we are covered up to 75% of costs. It has to be purchased with the initial policy so you can't add it after.

I'm not sure what the extra cost is as my TA just knows I want it added. I had a health condition where I may have to cancel so it was a comfort for me, whereas in the past I wouldn't be covered for this condition. Obviously I am not covered for the condition once we leave, but it's not likely to require urgent treatment overseas, and it was moreso the flexibility to cancel if it flared up after booking and before we left.

[Tamerton]

On 2/8/2020 at 10:27 AM, npcl said:

I read it but disagree with it.  That is why I said nope. That would not follow normal protocol for isolation.  Which would imply that he thinks passengers are still intermingling when he made that statement.  Unless something happens that makes officials think that isolation was broken.  As the Japanese minister of health said the quarantine will end on the 19th and there are no expectations of it being extended.  So who do want to believe the Executive Director of WHO who may have answered it in a different context then is captured by the person that wrote the article, or the Japanese Minister of Health who has final decision authority. A single statement taken out of context can be very misleading.  I would believe the article if we can see the full context of his statement.

 

As long as isolation is not broken it will end on the 19th, except for those that are in the same cabin as someone that develops symptoms between now and then.

 

After 48 hours before it ends you will see the Japanese start a screening protocol of all passengers to make sure that none have developed symptoms prior to departure.  Probably a final screen taken before being escorted out of quarantine.

 

Now the Executive Director of WHO is correct IF he was talking about individual cabins as I mentioned above where one develops symptoms, but not the majority of the passengers.

I think you are forgetting about the crew here. How are they managed? They seem to be moving about the ship and they live in very close quarters. If one of them tests positive then the ship could be quarantined for a long time even though there are no passengers.

[Cairn Mom]

The Princess Platinum insurance “Cancel for Any Reason” is credit toward another trip. It for the cruise fare only not ez-air.

Singapore just raised their threat level to Orange. I assume they will soon close their cruise terminal as well.

[brisalta]

46 minutes ago, Tamerton said:

I think you are forgetting about the crew here. How are they managed? They seem to be moving about the ship and they live in very close quarters. If one of them tests positive then the ship could be quarantined for a long time even though there are no passengers.

 

I suspect the crew were some of the first people tested as without them ships operations would halt. From what I remember 1 crew member was in the original group of people that were transported to hospital.

Edited February 9, 2020 by brisalta

[cruisingaussies]

10 minutes ago, leck57 said:

 

Not sure whether I should name the company but will and it will be deleted if I am not supposed to. Covermore offer Cancel for any Reason and have done so for about a year or so. They have a good reputation but are sometimes quite expensive. In the past I used to go to my TA armed with on-line quotes from other Travel Insurers and Covermore would often match them or go close. Now that I want Cancel for any Reason my bargaining power has diminished!

I'm pretty certain that you have to take it when you take out the policy initially.

Thanks very much. I believe they have a good reputation so will check it out. 

[ilikeanswers]

1 minute ago, leck57 said:

 

Are you sure. Most policies have explicit inclusions for viruses/pandemics, regardless of when you purchased the policy. I'd be checking the PDS if I were you. I hope you are right.

 

You have to check with your insurance provider. But I have been currently researching insurance since I am in the market and have talked to various providers and so far all have a set date that if you have bought before that date they will cover but after that date they consider it a "forseeable event". However the previous poster is right about CoverMore. It seems they have an extra option cancel for any reason that will refund a certain amout:

 

CoverMore CoronaVirus

[CarolineAtSea]

3 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

I am not aware that we can buy "cancel for any reason" insurance in Australia.  

I know travel insurance doesn't usually cover you for any event once it is publicly known.  

Which cruise are you cruising on?  Any chance it may be cancelled by the cruise line?

We are booked for NZ with Golden Princess on 10 March. Our insurance is with RACV and I rang them yesterday. If the government bans travel between our countries I would be covered. But if I cancel because I'm anxious about either getting the virus or being quarantined on the ship, it is classed as change of mind and I get nothing from the insurance company. I've looked up Princess' policy and up until 15 days before the cruise (it is now 31 days) we get 50% back if we cancel. Less than 15 days I think we get nothing.

[Debate]

3 hours ago, dog said:

If you have Princess Platinum insurance--i it cancel for any reason?

 

You do not have to give a reason to get back a FCC, do you?

Its not Princess Insurance but a policy through Allianz.  Since there are exclusions listed in the “cancel for any reason” endorsement I’d assume you have to give a reason?  The policy was purchased months ago so we are covered for everything except canceling due to fears regarding the virus under the “cancel for any reason” endorsement.  At least that’s my understanding. 

[Aus Traveller]

25 minutes ago, CarolineAtSea said:

We are booked for NZ with Golden Princess on 10 March. Our insurance is with RACV and I rang them yesterday. If the government bans travel between our countries I would be covered. But if I cancel because I'm anxious about either getting the virus or being quarantined on the ship, it is classed as change of mind and I get nothing from the insurance company. I've looked up Princess' policy and up until 15 days before the cruise (it is now 31 days) we get 50% back if we cancel. Less than 15 days I think we get nothing.

We are booked on the Sea Princess on 23rd February for a cruise to NZ. We see no reason to consider cancelling and have not even discussed it. NZ does not have a particular problem with coronavirus at the moment.

 

I would not go on a cruise to Asia.

[RMMariner]

I posted early on in this thread that panic was going to a problem. At this point, I think it is safe to say that there is a certain amount of panic beginning to show around the world. These threads reflect that reality, and I don't believe any of us are totally immune to the fear generated by a new disease.

 

I certainly would not travel to Asia right now, almost more out of fear of quarantine than catching the virus, but worrying about going to Hawaii or the Caribbean. I would not think twice about those destinations. We are booked on two California coastals in April and May, and just booked an Alaska for the whole family in August.

 

My fervent hope is that the traditional end of flu season that comes in the Spring will mark a real turn in this disease's expansion.

 

Now I am not saying that this virus is not serious, but it certainly being reported and handled differently than the swine flu pandemic of 2009. 

 

Something to consider: the death toll from that flu was reported to kill around 300,000 people (and in some estimates even more) from 2009 to 2012.

 

An article I found that questions the approach to the two viruses.

 

https://www.news9.com/story/41673620/somethings-not-right-here-folks-a-look-at-usa-2009-h1n1-virus-compared-to-china-2020-corona-virus

 

 

[brisalta]

17 minutes ago, RMMariner said:

I posted early on in this thread that panic was going to a problem. At this point, I think it is safe to say that there is a certain amount of panic beginning to show around the world. These threads reflect that reality, and I don't believe any of us are totally immune to the fear generated by a new disease.

 

I certainly would not travel to Asia right now, almost more out of fear of quarantine than catching the virus, but worrying about going to Hawaii or the Caribbean. I would not think twice about those destinations. We are booked on two California coastals in April and May, and just booked an Alaska for the whole family in August.

 

My fervent hope is that the traditional end of flu season that comes in the Spring will mark a real turn in this disease's expansion.

 

Now I am not saying that this virus is not serious, but it certainly being reported and handled differently than the swine flu pandemic of 2009. 

 

Something to consider: the death toll from that flu was reported to kill around 300,000 people (and in some estimates even more) from 2009 to 2012.

 

An article I found that questions the approach to the two viruses.

 

https://www.news9.com/story/41673620/somethings-not-right-here-folks-a-look-at-usa-2009-h1n1-virus-compared-to-china-2020-corona-virus

 

 

Swine flu is a known illness and it is known how to deal with it and contain it.

The current variety of corona virus attributes and treatment are little known hence the concern.

The typical death rate of influenza is 1%. From what is currently known of this particular corona virus the death rate is 2% of infected cases. This 2% figure may be wrong as the total number of cases may not be currently known due to under or over reporting. I leave it to the epidemiologists to come up with the correct numbers and the virologists/immunologists to study its mechanism of infection and a possible cure / immunization against it.

 

By the way take a look at the following post. It has results of an initial study:

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by brisalta

[RMMariner]

1 minute ago, brisalta said:

Swine flu is a known illness and it is known how to deal with it and contain it.

The current variety of corona virus attributes and treatment are little known hence the concern.

The typical death rate of influenza is 1%. From what is currently known of this particular corona virus the death rate is 2% of infected cases. This 2% figure may be wrong as the total number of cases may not be currently known due to under or over reporting. I leave it to the epidemiologists to come up with the correct numbers and the virologists/immunologists to study its mechanism of infection and a possible cure / immunization against it

Swine flu was not known in 2009. My point was there was not this same panic in 2009, and that disease is now understood in hindsight. Did you read the article or what I said?

[Te Aroha]

CNN are reporting another 6 positive tests and others also being removed from the ship for other health issues.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-09-20-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[brisalta]

Just now, RMMariner said:

Swine flu was not known in 2009. My point was there was not this same panic in 2009, and that disease is now understood in hindsight. Did you read the article or what I said?

 

Swine flu was certainly known about in 2009. I have been hearing about it for a lot longer than that.

[in rod we trust]

6 hours ago, elliair said:

Coronavirus Deaths Hit 806, Surpassing Total From 2003 SARS Outbreak

 

Summary:

• Officials reported an additional 81 deaths in Hubei on Saturday, bringing the death toll to 806: more than the total from the entire 2002-2003 SARS outbreak

• WHO reported 31,481 confirmed global cases on Friday, up by 3,000+ cases from Thursday; SCMP says total cases closer to 35k

• First American citizen has died

• First Japanese citizen suspected of succumbing to virus

• France elevates travel advisory to orange after 5 Britons fall ill in ski resort

• Roundup of suspected infected in Wuhan continues

• Beijing appoints Xi protege to help lead virus response

• Vigil for Dr. Li held in Hong Kong

• China blocks Foxconn plan to reopen factories

* * *

Update (1745ET): The coronavirus outbreak has just reached another grim milestone: The death toll has eclipsed that of the 2002-2003 SARS outbreak.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/first-american-citizen-dies-coronavirus-wuhan-5-britons-diagnosed-french-ski-town

I would think its way more than that , maybe ten times that .  the Chinese communist party officials have a pretty poor record on telling the truth.   I heard on the news the original doctor which was a young fella had died . also heard the Chinese officials also punished him when he broke the news of this coronavirus to the world..

[RMMariner]

9 minutes ago, brisalta said:

 

Swine flu was certainly known about in 2009. I have been hearing about it for a lot longer than that.

 

9 minutes ago, brisalta said:

 

Swine flu was certainly known about in 2009. I have been hearing about it for a lot longer than that.

Coronavirus are known about too. There are at least four previous strains of them circulating around the world as part of the flu already.

 

The swine flu pandemic of those years will probably end up being much more costly in human lives than this epidemic will be. Are we more easily frightened now? Is social media more pervasive? Is racism part of this? 

 

All I am saying is keep this disease in historical perspective. 

[brisalta]

Except this corona virus  variant is a bit different and seems to have come out of nowhere so to speak. I am not sure how serious corona virus tracking tracking and typing has been over the years. I think the fact that it was detected early and there is no anti viral currently known to work against it made the authorities resort to quarantine to stop it spreading. There are a number of land based quarantine sites being used in different countries in different parts of the world.

 

Influenza tracking has a long history. Swine flu is an H1N1 which has been known about for many decades and has been tracked for a long time as it has caused serious problems and many deaths over the years.

 

As I previously said I leave it to the epidemiologists to come up with the correct numbers and the virologists/immunologists to study its mechanism of infection and a possible cure / immunization against it.

I do not have the energy at the moment to log into my alma mater's  library site and perform a literature search regarding the tracking of corona virus and the variants although that might be an interesting task.

 

Good night and may the morning bring better news.

Edited February 9, 2020 by brisalta

[TOCruisers]

15 hours ago, rsato said:

Does anyone understand (or have heard) why Japan allowed the Diamond Princess to port with now 64 confirmed coronavirus cases but does not allow the HAL Westerdam with supposedly one patient with suspected (not confirmed) coronavirus cases to dock? Both ships were on Japanese itineraries with many Japanese nationals and had recent stops in Hong Kong.

 

My guess for the main reason the Diamond Princess was able to dock at Yokohama is the percentage  of Japanese passengers on her .  What Japan is going to do with so many fellow country persons. Yokohama is also base port.  Only handful of Japanese are on Westerdam.

 

12 hours ago, fragilek said:

 they could never have a confirmed case of the virus- only a handful of labs are licensed to undertake this test.   No ship can do this test.  All they can truly say is that no-one is displaying any symptoms . Royal are awaiting tests coming back from Atlanta (so even although New York hospitals have the test kits now conformation of results from CDC still released via Atlanta, I don't even know if the tests in other areas

 

I was wondering the comment as well.  Only special labs in Japan can perform the PCR tests and apparently the test takes several hours.  So it is a very time consuming exercise as they also test on all 600+ Japanese nationals repatriated by special chartered airplanes from Wuhan.  They are all quarantined.   Make sense to prioritize the testing.

 

I was interested in taking a similar but shorter cruise on the Diamond Princess in Spring so I am following the news closely.  As of Friday.

 

After a brief interview with all passengers/crews with filled questionnaire, originally 120 (with fever, coughing, etc) + 153 (closed contact with the corona virus diagnosed HK passenger) = total 273 passengers/crews received PCR tests. 

With three batches of above test results:  10 +10 +41 = 61 were positive (22% of tested).

Additional 6 passengers/crew(s) who needed medical attention (unrelated) or spouse/closed contact with the above 61 positive passengers/crew(s) were tested:  3 were positive.

Total tested:  279  Total positive:  64

28 Japanese, 13 American, 7 each Canadian and Australian…….

1 serious condition who had unrelated medical condition

 

Currently additional passengers/crews who had closed contact with the above positive passengers/crews are been tested. 

 

The HK passenger was briefly in Shenzhen, China before he came to Tokyo  and coughing the day before embarking the Diamond Princess.  He also took a cruise  bus tour with around 40 people in a Japanese port.  

 

What I found interesting is so far only 1 crew member was positive out of 64.  Although I do not know the ratio of passengers/crews tested, is this because crews were trained to have better health practice such as wash hands, etc.?

 

Re crew quarantine This is my guess:  Only essential crews are working.  no room attendance so very limited laundry staff, no wait staff except room service, no bartenders, no store clerks, so most of crews may be quarantined? 

 

Apparently the biggest issue on the ship right now is running out of prescriptions.  I hope everyone gets what needed soon.  I take some extras on travel but never thought of taking extra two weeks.

 

 

 

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, brisalta said:

Except this corona virus  variant is a bit different and seems to have come out of nowhere so to speak. I am not sure how serious corona virus tracking tracking and typing has been over the years. I think the fact that it was detected early and there is no anti viral currently known to work against it made the authorities resort to quarantine to stop it spreading. There are a number of land based quarantine sites being used in different countries in different parts of the world.

 

Influenza tracking has a long history. Swine flu is an H1N1 which has been known about for many decades and has been tracked for a long time as it has caused serious problems and many deaths over the years.

 

As I previously said I leave it to the epidemiologists to come up with the correct numbers and the virologists/immunologists to study its mechanism of infection and a possible cure / immunization against it.

I do not have the energy at the moment to log into my alma mater's  library site and perform a literature search regarding the tracking of corona virus and the variants although that might be an interesting task.

 

Good night and may the morning bring better news.

 

I can't find the article now probably because it has been buried by newer articles about Novel Corona but there was an interview of two Chinese virologists who had discovered this strain about five years ago in a bat cave. So it has been known about for quite awhile and China does seem to make the effort to hunt down and track these viruses as that seems to have been the job of these two virologists. However they still haven't found how it evolved to jump to humans🤔.

[Skoobdo]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

...However they still haven't found how it evolved to jump to humans🤔.

Probably from bat feces in unsanitary market conditions.

[fragilek]

21 minutes ago, Skoobdo said:

Probably from bat feces in unsanitary market conditions.

 That's now been disputed disputed by scientist in the west as they have more time to study the virus- the culprit now thought more likely to be  the pangolin

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/07/pangolins-might-have-spread-coronavirus-to-humans

[fragilek]

 Number of cases on the princess now stands at 70- Not heard anything yet to suggest change to isolation end date 

[fragilek]

on TV news in Japan

9th morning on TV Minister of Health, Labor and Welfare Kato said that it will consider taking samples and testing all passengers and crews of about 3,700 people who will land on the 19th, checking the situation.

 

[Skoobdo]

23 minutes ago, fragilek said:

 That's now been disputed disputed by scientist in the west as they have more time to study the virus- the culprit now thought more likely to be  the pangolin

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/07/pangolins-might-have-spread-coronavirus-to-humans

Yes, I read about that, but I would think whatever species it was it probably came from their excrements.  In a crowded market I'm sure all kinds of bacteria and viruses were floating around.

[Pushka]

5 hours ago, fragilek said:

 That's now been disputed disputed by scientist in the west as they have more time to study the virus- the culprit now thought more likely to be  the pangolin

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/07/pangolins-might-have-spread-coronavirus-to-humans

Not entirely. I think the bat is a vector.