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PRINCESS SHIPS & CORONA VIRUS


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6 minutes ago, mek said:

But I would argue that we really don't have much information on the people with mild symptoms, do we?  Are they even reported as this virus or do people realize they have it? They could be up and about in a week - we really don't know how many like that there are. I know I get a flu shot every year, but somehow still manage to pick up one or two 24 hour somethings .  I heard somewhere that it's possible two different strains are out there.

 All I'm saying is I think there is an overblown sense of doom with this virus that is being promoted by the news media. 

actually we do now. widespread testing in HK and portions of Korea has provided data. the most recent paper includes a model based upon those sampling numbers would reduce fatality rate to in the .5 to 1% range. still 10 times higher than flu and serious cases down to the 4% range. 

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5 hours ago, cruising deacon said:

Lets face it, who would book a Princess cruise NOW.

 

You are right. There is no way I would book a Princess cruise right now. I simply can't afford it as I already have five Princess cruises booked at the moment. 😉

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23 minutes ago, npcl said:

actually we do now. widespread testing in HK and portions of Korea has provided data. the most recent paper includes a model based upon those sampling numbers would reduce fatality rate to in the .5 to 1% range. still 10 times higher than flu and serious cases down to the 4% range. 

As long as we don't have world wide data from all countries, IMO the model really doesn't mean much to me.

Bottom line is we really don't know, but I still think we would be seeing very high mortality rates if this thing was as bad as many people would like to have us believe.

I'll tell you what really concerns me and that is our dependency on China for so many of our pharmaceuticals.  That simply must stop.  We need to start producing our drugs here in the US again.

 

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4 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

Do they cancel during any flu season?

 

I'm not worried about travel itself, just the panic whipped up by the media causing knee jerk reactions that may interfere with our plans.

 

The difference is that you can be inoculated against influenza but as of now not covid-19.

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4 hours ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

Sorry, but that is nonsense.   A virus is never 'alive' and can be kept viable indefinitely in the right circumstances, which basically means keeping from it from drying out it and away from sunlight.    In practical terms, how long enough of the virus can remain on any particular surface over time to infect somebody who contacts that surface, or if that is even a viable route of transmission, is still a matter of urgent research.   The "14 day rule" that we are coming up with is because the average incubation time "seems" to be five days, and researchers are pretty confident that anybody who has been exposed will show symptoms well before 14 days are up.   (There are exceptions.)   It has nothing to do with how long the virus survives on a surface, or in waste (for example.)

 

We are in such early days for this disease that there is really very little that we can say for sure.

 

Well said but some viruses species do survive drying and sunlight. A professor I had specialized in viral replication and had on his shelves phials of viable virus that were dry and exposed to sunlight. They would still replicate when introduced to their host specie's cells.

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5 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

Do they cancel during any flu season?

 

I'm not worried about travel itself, just the panic whipped up by the media causing knee jerk reactions that may interfere with our plans.

 

 

Spot on! We are going on our Crown Princess cruise on March 16th despite all the panic and hysteria. 

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4 hours ago, dag144 said:

I am booked on a 15 day Princess cruise next month.  I will probably cancel not because I am afraid of catching the virus, but because I am afraid of dying of boredom if the ship is quarantined.  I enjoy going to the various bars on the ship and talking to other passengers.   This could be hard to do, if we are to stay at least six feet apart.

I had hip replacement surgery on Monday. I came home the same day. I live in a two story house with 4 bedrooms. It hasn't even been a week and I'm already scratching at the walls. I can't imagine being quarantined in a 2X4 Princess stateroom that doesn't even have a club chair anymore. 

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2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Every day I'm reminded more and more of Y2K

 

Why? Y2K was a real problem facing the world of computerized systems. I spent a couple of years working on code revisions to fix the product I worked on. We were successful so no one came across the problem in real life.

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Just now, brisalta said:

 

Why? Y2K was a real problem facing the world of computerized systems. I spent a couple of years working on code revisions to fix the product I worked on. We were successful so no one came across the problem in real life.

Y2K was a real problem.   So is coronavirus.  The panic and fear are remarkably the same.

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1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

Y2K was a real problem.   So is coronavirus.  The panic and fear are remarkably the same.

 

There was no panic or fear involved with y2k. Just a lot of professionals correcting errors introduced in previous versions of software.

I visited a major hospital yesterday for a test and there was no fear or panic there either.

 

Fear and panic is observable in irrational thinking such as those stripping shelves of grocery stores bare. On the other hand there are people being cautious which is sensible. The delayed disembarkation of the Panorama is due to caution.

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6 hours ago, cruising deacon said:

It appears, at least in the US, that Princess is the only major cruise line that is getting massive negative publicity because of the coronavirus.  With these 11 people testing positive on the Grand (2 guests and 9 crew) Princess should be investigating its viability in the future.  Will it even be able to survive the gigantic blemish that it has received, through what appears to be no fault of their own?  The whole cruise industry is taking a HIT, but Princess may be the only one to SINK.  It may be time for them to start drastic measures to assure their existence in the future.   Lets face it, who would book a Princess cruise NOW.

Maybe they should cancel all cruises for the next 30 or 60 days (fleet wide) and announce that they are sending all crew home.  Those who pass the physical exam when the cruises resume will be allowed to return to their positions.  They could spend that time showing that a decontamination company (not Princess) is deep cleaning all of their vessels to assure a safe cruising experience for their guests. 

I think it is time for Princess to do something drastic to regain the public's confidence in them, or get ready to sink.

 

5 hours ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

Just in the interests of accuracy, death rate by age.   For the 'flu in your case it is %.06.

And in South Korea the death rate is only slightly higher.

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6 hours ago, cruising deacon said:

It appears, at least in the US, that Princess is the only major cruise line that is getting massive negative publicity because of the coronavirus.  With these 11 people testing positive on the Grand (2 guests and 9 crew) Princess should be investigating its viability in the future.  Will it even be able to survive the gigantic blemish that it has received, through what appears to be no fault of their own?  The whole cruise industry is taking a HIT, but Princess may be the only one to SINK.  It may be time for them to start drastic measures to assure their existence in the future.   Lets face it, who would book a Princess cruise NOW.

Maybe they should cancel all cruises for the next 30 or 60 days (fleet wide) and announce that they are sending all crew home.  Those who pass the physical exam when the cruises resume will be allowed to return to their positions.  They could spend that time showing that a decontamination company (not Princess) is deep cleaning all of their vessels to assure a safe cruising experience for their guests. 

I think it is time for Princess to do something drastic to regain the public's confidence in them, or get ready to sink.

I would book a Princess cruise NOW if I could find an itinerary that would work with my schedule. In fact I just got off their website after searching for one.

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2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Every day I'm reminded more and more of Y2K

Y2K, wasn't that when everything grinded to a halt and basically the world as we know it came to an end? Just a terrible time to live through.

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5 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Do not get quarantined for having flu or cold.....I wish people would quit using this simplistic analogy because 50% of Americans do not get the yearly  flu shot and that is what make it deadly.......

 

Individuals get quarantined on ships for having symptoms of the flu. I know because it happened to me in December on the CB. I was allowed out in the morning and afternoon just to visit the medical center for a temperature check. I had to wear a face mask to and from those visits. I had to have three temperature checks under 100 degrees for them to release me from quarantine. Fortunately I was confined to my cabin for nearly two days and not longer. Special cleaning people came to service my cabin instead of my regular cabin steward. 

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2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

You seem to be assuming once the ships are decontaminated, they will be safe.

And, after the 30/60 days, how do you propose preventing additional cases from boarding the ships?

If Princess can't figure that out in the next 30/60 days, I know I won't be boarding!

 

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7 hours ago, Brad1185 said:

What’s happened on the 2 Princess ships to now is nothing. Impaired on how bad it will be in the future. I think cruising is done for until there is a cure or the virus goes away. 
 

 

 

The virus is, in most cases, arriving and spreading in countries via people getting of planes, not cruise ships. Why aren't people making the same comments in relation to the airline industry? 

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1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Y2K, wasn't that when everything grinded to a halt and basically the world as we know it came to an end? Just a terrible time to live through.

There are those saying the corona virus could bring world trade to a halt and cause deaths equal to the Spanish flu.

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1 hour ago, cruising deacon said:

If Princess can't figure that out in the next 30/60 days, I know I won't be boarding!

 

That wasn't the point.  A one time decontamination won't solve the problem of infected passengers continuing to board.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Doug R. said:

Spot on! We are going on our Crown Princess cruise on March 16th despite all the panic and hysteria. 

You do know the 80 year who had coronavirus and died in the UK the second person to die died within an hour of being diagnosed. He had just come off some cruise ship days earlier though they won't say which one. Though not the grand princess apparently.

Edited by ace2542
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1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

 

And in South Korea the death rate is only slightly higher.

keep in mind that most of the cases occurred in the last 10 days. mean time to death with Corona is 14 to 15 days with a range of 2 to 29 days. too early to see mortality rate in SK

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What we haven’t been told is the lethality of this virus among smokers and former smokers who already have severely damaged lungs.   The percentage of people smoking in China and Italy is much higher than it is the the U.S.   Those over 65 in the U.S have a higher probability of being smokers or even being subjected to constant second hand smoke.   Those damaged lungs make recovering from the virus much more difficult.   We also had much higher levels of SMOG in the 60’s and 70’s than we see now.   

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8 hours ago, cruising deacon said:

It appears, at least in the US, that Princess is the only major cruise line that is getting massive negative publicity because of the coronavirus.  With these 11 people testing positive on the Grand (2 guests and 9 crew) Princess should be investigating its viability in the future.  Will it even be able to survive the gigantic blemish that it has received, through what appears to be no fault of their own?  The whole cruise industry is taking a HIT, but Princess may be the only one to SINK.  It may be time for them to start drastic measures to assure their existence in the future.   Lets face it, who would book a Princess cruise NOW.

Maybe they should cancel all cruises for the next 30 or 60 days (fleet wide) and announce that they are sending all crew home.  Those who pass the physical exam when the cruises resume will be allowed to return to their positions.  They could spend that time showing that a decontamination company (not Princess) is deep cleaning all of their vessels to assure a safe cruising experience for their guests. 

I think it is time for Princess to do something drastic to regain the public's confidence in them, or get ready to sink.

The public's trust or your trust? Major difference. 

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59 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

There are those saying the corona virus could bring world trade to a halt and cause deaths equal to the Spanish flu.

No matter what occurs in a day, there will always be those who view the occurrence as the sky falling. Way too many snowflakes in the world these days.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, karatemom2 said:

It may be hyperbole but there are some valid and thoughtful points being made here. I love cruising and have taken over 30 Princess Cruises in the past 15 years. But we have cancelled our cruises for the remainder of the year - the next one up was supposed to be on the Grand. Personally for us it is not worth the risk of getting stuck in an extended quarantine - I have a job and my husband is self employed. We have grown children traveling with us who have their own jobs and college demands. We have pets at home that require care. And we have elderly family members who I would prefer to protect. While we are in this new, unknown and critical phase with this illness I’m going to be cautious and thoughtful in my approach. There will be other vacations in the future. This is our personal decision but one I believe many other cruisers are sharing. Here is the biggest problem - once one person brings it onboard it spreads freely. No amount of cleaning or hand washing will slow it down - especially once it hits the crew who live packed together like sardines. A cruise ship is a perfect storm for viral spread and even screening passengers as they board will not help as the incubation time allows a seemingly healthy person to be fine one day and running a fever several days later. Then when these passengers leave the boat they take it home and spread it in their communities while the crew continues to spread it onboard to new passengers. It becomes a vicious cycle -exactly what we are seeing with the Grand. 

This is not the flu, there is no preventive shot or treatment like Tamifu to help mitigate it. Most people seem to do just fine, but the older you are the greater the risk and when you look at the average demographic of a cruise passenger many would fall into a high risk zone. These are just the hard facts. Everyone has to make their own decision, but it does appear the cruise industry will be bearing the fallout from this epidemic for some time, as will the entire travel industry. 

Well said.  We feel the same.  I can't believe in all of this no one has brought up the buffets.  We have been cruising for years and was just on the Crown for 30 days getting off 2/25!  We do not eat at the buffets as we have witnessed horrific things that are done by passengers in the buffet area.  On the last cruise we were on, friends I met onboard were doing the buffet and said some lady got a huge plate of cakes/desserts, sat down and started eating and what she didn't finish she put back in the buffet!  Another said someone was picking up food with their hands.  When something was said to them, they said some words I will not post.  First, I do believe the cleaning of the terminals is important.  I think they should have hand washing stations before entering the ship.  Everyone goes from the terminal to the buffet and touches all the utensils and eats.  I feel this is where it spreads most.  People come from the pool and eat pizza and burgers without hand washing.  Also, people were not covering their mouths when coughing.  This is unacceptable.   I don't think this is a Princess issue solely, it is just there are more "adult" people on their ships.  RCCL have a much younger crowd.  HAL their buffets are served by servers, so no one is touching.  Truth is, no matter how good you wash and keep clean, someone can cough all over you or sneeze on you and you get whatever they have.  

Edited by mellon1
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Posted (edited)

Another Princess ship is being "tracked" due to shared crew with the Diamond and/or Grand Princess:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/07/politics/mike-pence-cruise-ship-crew-coronavirus/index.html

 

If I'm not mistaken, Princess has an active fleet of 17 ships with the Diamond and Grand obviously taken out of the line up.

 

I'm supposed to be setting sail on the Regal in a week.

 

ADDENDUM: A passenger on the Princess Cruises Passenger Forum on Facebook claims the crew member was on the Grand and transferred to the Royal Princess. This news item seems to confirm:

 

https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/03/07/another-california-cruise-ship-in-holding-pattern-while-crew-member-gets-tested-for-coronavirus-1265993

Edited by Curtis Newton
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