PRINCESS SHIPS & CORONA VIRUS

[npcl]

6 minutes ago, fountainpen said:

from Wiki Salbutamol was patented in 1966, in Britain and became commercially available in the UK in 1969.^[10][11] It was approved for medical use in the United States in 1982.^[6] It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the safest and most effective medicines needed in a health system.^[12] Salbutamol is available as a generic medication.^[6] The wholesale cost in the developing world of an inhaler which contains 200 doses is between US$1.12 and US$2.64 as of 2014.^[13] In the United States, it is between US$25 and US$50 for a typical month's supply.^[14] In 2016, it was the 10th most prescribed medication in the United States, with more than 47 million prescriptions.^[15]

 

Your point is.  You started with an implication that companies did not follow ethical drug approval processes,

 

Now you jumping all over the board talking about approvals, withdrawals and pricing.  None of which have anything to do with ethical drug development.  

 

Now if you want to go into a drawn out discussion about drug development and pricing,  including how the consumers in the US are really funding much of drug development in the rest of the world because the decision to go forward with development of a particular drug is often based upon expected revenue from the US market, that is not relevant to this forum and should probably be done else where.

[fountainpen]

exactly

[fragilek]

4 minutes ago, npcl said:

 

Your point is.  You started with an implication that companies did not follow ethical drug approval processes,

 

Now you jumping all over the board talking about approvals, withdrawals and pricing.  None of which have anything to do with ethical drug development.  

 

Now if you want to go into a drawn out discussion about drug development and pricing,  including how the consumers in the US are really funding much of drug development in the rest of the world because the decision to go forward with development of a particular drug is often based upon expected revenue from the US market, that is not relevant to this forum and should probably be done else where.

Agree 100% - I was going to reply but decided - time to move on and let this discussion focus back on cruising 

[npcl]

1 minute ago, fountainpen said:

exactly

Then as an outside of the US consumer you should just say thank you to those people from the US for paying the prices they do and fund the drug development that allow other countries to put price controls in place and still get drugs.

 

Also keep in mind that in the US there are list prices, but he actual price to consumer is usually much lower due to most drugs are paid for by third parties  52% goverment programs 41% insurance.  The amount one actually pays depends upon the particular formulary of the third party. The price those third parties pay is based upon negotiations between the pharmacy benefit manager and the supplier.

 

I my self would prefer a system where a supplier must charge everyone the same price, and get rid of all of the negotiations in the middle,  Of course I would also like a system where a company must not charge in the US any price higher then what they sell the drug for else where.  If the US put that in place then it would blow up price controls else where because new drugs would be launched in the US but not else where.  Then there could be a good discussion on the true cost of drug development. 

[fountainpen]

19 minutes ago, npcl said:

Then as an outside of the US consumer you should just say thank you to those people from the US for paying the prices they do and fund the drug development that allow other countries to put price controls in place and still get drugs.

 

Also keep in mind that in the US there are list prices, but he actual price to consumer is usually much lower due to most drugs are paid for by third parties  52% goverment programs 41% insurance.  The amount one actually pays depends upon the particular formulary of the third party. The price those third parties pay is based upon negotiations between the pharmacy benefit manager and the supplier.

 

I my self would prefer a system where a supplier must charge everyone the same price, and get rid of all of the negotiations in the middle,  Of course I would also like a system where a company must not charge in the US any price higher then what they sell the drug for else where.  If the US put that in place then it would blow up price controls else where because new drugs would be launched in the US but not else where.  Then there could be a good discussion on the true cost of drug development. 

As an asthmatic or COPD patient in 1978 in USA, should I thank the cautious drug companies which tries to avoid lawsuits or the cautious regulators, in making Ventolin un-available to me, a drug so useful now in the USA?

Edited February 3, 2020 by fountainpen

[mcrcruiser]

Can we keep the conversation here focused on the  corona Virus &  how it affects cruise travel on Princess ships . TIA

[npcl]

13 minutes ago, fountainpen said:

As an asthmatic or COPD patient in 1978 in USA, should I thank the cautious drug companies which tries to avoid lawsuits or the cautious regulators, in making Ventolin un-available to me, a drug so useful now in the USA?

Drug companies don't do approvals the FDA does. Ventolin was approved by the FDA in 1981, filing company Glaxo Welcome. 

 

[leck57]

17 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Can we keep the conversation here focused on the  corona Virus &  how it affects cruise travel on Princess ships . TIA

 

Yes I agree. It seems that most of the posters have been driven away by a couple on here that seem more interested in confusing with science and then one upping each other. I assume like me, most people's eyes have just glazed over.

[Ombud]

1 hour ago, leck57 said:

 

Yes I agree. It seems that most of the posters have been driven away by a couple on here that seem more interested in confusing with science and then one upping each other. I assume like me, most people's eyes have just glazed over.

I'm not interested in which countries' patients pay for most of drug research or which strand it is, am interested in it's life cycle. Sorry for a little (actually a lot) of NIMBY here. I have a 8/29/20 cruise out of HK at a great price and would be equally happy with it going from Yokohama or Taipei, would regret missing Vietnam. Yes I'm selfish. Princess has modified or canceled cruises up to July 17. When do I say it's off and flip to another cruise? WWYD 

[Rustyone2018]

We are also on that August 29 cruise out of Hong Kong.  Undecided at the moment whether to cancel.  If they change the embarkation to Japan we might still go, but what happens about Vietnam and Singapore.  Only paid deposit as yet but balance due end April.  Haven't booked hotels or flights so seriously considering cancelling and swapping to another cruise elsewhere.  On another note, I am also wondering if the price will start dropping.

 

[leck57]

8 minutes ago, Rustyone2018 said:

We are also on that August 29 cruise out of Hong Kong.  Undecided at the moment whether to cancel.  If they change the embarkation to Japan we might still go, but what happens about Vietnam and Singapore.  Only paid deposit as yet but balance due end April.  Haven't booked hotels or flights so seriously considering cancelling and swapping to another cruise elsewhere.  On another note, I am also wondering if the price will start dropping.

 

 

I wouldn't do anything yet as you are months away and don't need to make any decisions. Our cruise was to finish in Shanghai and Princess have changed that port only and now we finish in Yokohama. I haven't thought about cancelling. You mention Vietnam and Singapore - there are more case here in Australia at the moment.

If the price drops just contact your TA, or Princess if you booked direct and ask them to re-fare. Of course if you have offers such as OBC, speciality restaurant dinners you may lose them if the deals are no longer on offer. 

[Rustyone2018]

14 minutes ago, leck57 said:

 

I wouldn't do anything yet as you are months away and don't need to make any decisions. Our cruise was to finish in Shanghai and Princess have changed that port only and now we finish in Yokohama. I haven't thought about cancelling. You mention Vietnam and Singapore - there are more case here in Australia at the moment.

If the price drops just contact your TA, or Princess if you booked direct and ask them to re-fare. Of course if you have offers such as OBC, speciality restaurant dinners you may lose them if the deals are no longer on offer. 

Yes just waiting to see atm.  We did get a fair amount of OBC, but I have noticed a small price drop recently.  Booked through TA so will wait a bit longer and then see if they can get us a better deal, or cancel.

[RMMariner]

 

First of all, I want to say that my heart goes out to the people in China and elsewhere affected by this disease. The people in the affected area are certainly facing a very human toll every day, and it would be foolish to travel to China without due consideration at this time.

 

I am not an epidemiologist. Nor am I a doctor, but I do have a strong science background from university. I have taken the time to read a lot about this disease (not just the headlines but also the less sensationalistic articles). I also fully understand why many people on this board are very worried. I was quite surprised when my father phoned last night, at how concerned he was about the coronavirus. He has retired to Phoenix, but he still cruises quite often, and we were discussing a family cruise this year, in either Alaska or along the California Coast.

 

Time is passing and more and more is becoming known about this disease. There has been a lot of misinformation spread and some of it has made it on to these boards.

 

Our modern media, and of course human instinct create panics. Educate yourself, and make good choices for yourself. 

 

I have placed a link to an article in Canada's preeminent (and very conservative newspaper) for you to consider. Hope the link works for you.

 

 

https://nationalpost.com/health/new-coronavirus-may-be-no-more-dangerous-than-the-flu-despite-worldwide-alarm-experts

[caribill]

18 hours ago, lolane1 said:

My local hardware stores including ACE are sold out in NYC.  N95 recommended by the CDC.  Yesterday, we saw a couple buying a cartload of masks in Home Depot.  Almost cleaned out what was on the shelf.  And my friend went to a hardware store in her neighborhood and paid $14.95 EACH for an N95,  Now that is price gouging. I bought a box of 10 a few days ago for $22.95.  Definitely people are preparing. The CDC recommends 8 hour use for health workers depending on contamination.  So, if it goes viral (pun intended) you are going to need a lot of masks!  The subways are a petrie dish all the time.  

 

 

 

 

If you are healthy, wearing the masks is not going to be of any value. Usually the moisture in your breath will render a mask ineffective within 30 minutes.

 

However, if worn by someone who is already sick, they are effective in helping stop the spread of the disease because they will help keep droplets that may contain virus from spreading. Of course such a mask must be properly handled and disposed of after use since improper handing/disposal will result in the spread of the virus.

[Ombud]

7 hours ago, Rustyone2018 said:

We are also on that August 29 cruise out of Hong Kong.  Undecided at the moment whether to cancel.  If they change the embarkation to Japan we might still go, but what happens about Vietnam and Singapore.  Only paid deposit as yet but balance due end April.  Haven't booked hotels or flights so seriously considering cancelling and swapping to another cruise elsewhere.  On another note, I am also wondering if the price will start dropping.

 

I don't have to pay the balance until May 31st. According to the website, Shanghai stops are being replaced with Japanese ports 👍

[seapals2]

Having just returned from a Caribbean cruise my concern is being on a ship that is suddenly quarantined.  Passengers would presumably be confined to cabins too.  
I will not be looking to board any ship for the foreseeable future.  We had a balcony but imagine being confined to an inside cabin.  There is a ship in Citivechia  right now with 7000 onboard going nowhere.  Passengers on ships being denied entry to ports. You can not leave the ship once you have boarded until allowed by port authorities.  It must be a nightmare.  Surprised not seeing more posts in forums.  

[Alcairns]

11 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Can we keep the conversation here focused on the  corona Virus &  how it affects cruise travel on Princess ships . TIA

Hear hear!!

[leck57]

46 minutes ago, seapals2 said:

 
I will not be looking to board any ship for the foreseeable future.    

 

Don't board any planes either, and for that matter don't go to any Country now that has confirmed cases of this virus. You never know where anyone has been. I'd stay inside and close the drapes.

[Expat Cruise]

Here is the notice from Princess Cruises about the Diamond Princess. Which was held for 24 hours in quarantine during a 24 hour turn around.

 

Updated February 4, 2020

YOKOHAMA, Japan (Feb 4, 2020 GMT+9) - Princess Cruises has confirmed the turnaround of Diamond Princess has been delayed for approximately 24 hours to allow Japan public health authorities the opportunity to review the health status of all guests and crew on board.

On the previous voyage, a guest from Hong Kong, embarked in Yokohama on January 20, sailed one segment of the itinerary, and disembarked in Hong Kong on January 25. He visited a local Hong Kong hospital, six days after leaving the ship, where he later tested positive for coronavirus on February 1. While on the ship he did not visit the ship’s medical centre to report any symptoms or illness. The hospital reports that he is in stable condition and the family members traveling with him remain symptom-free.

The safety, security and well-being of all guests and crew is our absolute priority. The review of the arriving guests and crew, by Japanese health authorities, is standard practice after a guest tested positive for coronavirus and we are working closely with the local authorities to provide detailed records to facilitate their review.

Diamond Princess arrived in Yokohama early from a 14-day round trip itinerary, which departed from Yokohama (Tokyo) on January 20 and was scheduled to return on February 4. There are 2,666 guests and 1,045 crew on board. 

We will provide a further update once we have more information. 

https://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/notices/diamond-princess-update.html

[leck57]

5 minutes ago, Expat Cruise said:

Here is the notice from Princess Cruises about the Diamond Princess. Which was held for 24 hours in quarantine during a 24 hour turn around.

 

Updated February 4, 2020

YOKOHAMA, Japan (Feb 4, 2020 GMT+9) - Princess Cruises has confirmed the turnaround of Diamond Princess has been delayed for approximately 24 hours to allow Japan public health authorities the opportunity to review the health status of all guests and crew on board.

On the previous voyage, a guest from Hong Kong, embarked in Yokohama on January 20, sailed one segment of the itinerary, and disembarked in Hong Kong on January 25. He visited a local Hong Kong hospital, six days after leaving the ship, where he later tested positive for coronavirus on February 1. While on the ship he did not visit the ship’s medical centre to report any symptoms or illness. The hospital reports that he is in stable condition and the family members traveling with him remain symptom-free.

The safety, security and well-being of all guests and crew is our absolute priority. The review of the arriving guests and crew, by Japanese health authorities, is standard practice after a guest tested positive for coronavirus and we are working closely with the local authorities to provide detailed records to facilitate their review.

Diamond Princess arrived in Yokohama early from a 14-day round trip itinerary, which departed from Yokohama (Tokyo) on January 20 and was scheduled to return on February 4. There are 2,666 guests and 1,045 crew on board. 

We will provide a further update once we have more information. 

https://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/notices/diamond-princess-update.html

 

I think you might be behind Expat. I thought I read a thread on here that the next cruise is cancelled and Princess have offered very reasonable compensation.

 

Edit ; here you go

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by leck57

[Expat Cruise]

8 minutes ago, leck57 said:

 

I think you might be behind Expat. I thought I read a thread on here that the next cruise is cancelled and Princess have offered very reasonable compensation.

 

Edit ; here you go

 

 

Yes I knew it was cancelled the 24 hour delay I was talking about was the passengers leaving the ship. I should have been clearer, my bad..... This has create big problems many of those on the ship have missed flights home.  And most of the passengers from America, Europe and Australia/New Zealand would have already been in transit to the ship for the next cruise.

 

This is going to get much worst before it gets better. I'm concerned about our Hawaii Cruise in April..... will we be able to even fly from the Philippines to Los Angeles..... A single short cancelled cruise (5 to 7 days) costs the cruise line in revenue 3 to 4 million dollars. 

 

Countries are closing borders without notice. The Philippines within the last 24 hours banned travel from Hong Kong and Macau, Mainland has been banned already. Other countries are putting their heads in the sand, in Cambodia  the PM Issues a statement saying he would throw anyone wearing a masks in public out of the country. Lots of false information around the only thing I see happening for sure is more and more cases.

 

China just built several new hospitals... 10 days from ground breaking to open. This is real and very few firm answers available today.

[seapals2]

4 hours ago, leck57 said:

 

Don't board any planes either, and for that matter don't go to any Country now that has confirmed cases of this virus. You never know where anyone has been. I'd stay inside and close the drapes.

Just returned from 6 weeks away.  3 weeks on the new Sky Princess.  My point was a cruise ship would not be my preferred place should anyone on board get taken ill with this virus.  The way it’s being treated is like the plague.  The ship would go into quarantine and probably passengers confined to their stateroom.  All very well if you have a balcony but an inside room would be horrendous.  
There has always been a risk of getting ill on holiday and flu kills people every year.  No one is telling us how much worse this virus is.  However from the actions of authorities it would seem there is more risk.   So I will still travel .. however I will not put myself at risk of becoming a prisoner on a ship.  If the port authorities say you don’t get off .. you don’t.  If they put your ship into quarantine ... that’s where you will stay!   Healthy or not.  

[gilboman]

13 hours ago, leck57 said:

 

I wouldn't do anything yet as you are months away and don't need to make any decisions. Our cruise was to finish in Shanghai and Princess have changed that port only and now we finish in Yokohama. I haven't thought about cancelling. You mention Vietnam and Singapore - there are more case here in Australia at the moment.

If the price drops just contact your TA, or Princess if you booked direct and ask them to re-fare. Of course if you have offers such as OBC, speciality restaurant dinners you may lose them if the deals are no longer on offer. 

Singapore is upto 24 cases now. But in context, it's still a very small number and as long as it avoids Mainland, other areas as of now are fine and I'll worry more about noro on the cruise

[gvre]

Latest update from Daily Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7964349/Cruise-ship-3-711-people-board-quarantined-Japan.html

[npcl]

4 hours ago, seapals2 said:

Just returned from 6 weeks away.  3 weeks on the new Sky Princess.  My point was a cruise ship would not be my preferred place should anyone on board get taken ill with this virus.  The way it’s being treated is like the plague.  The ship would go into quarantine and probably passengers confined to their stateroom.  All very well if you have a balcony but an inside room would be horrendous.  
There has always been a risk of getting ill on holiday and flu kills people every year.  No one is telling us how much worse this virus is.  However from the actions of authorities it would seem there is more risk.   So I will still travel .. however I will not put myself at risk of becoming a prisoner on a ship.  If the port authorities say you don’t get off .. you don’t.  If they put your ship into quarantine ... that’s where you will stay!   Healthy or not.  

Exactly the point.  It really does not matter how bad this ends up getting.

 

If any clusters occur outside of China then depending upon where they occur.  Should have a good idea about additional spread in the next 15 days. However, every 15 days would cost me about $5000 in potential refunds. Change today out of pocket cost about $3000, on Feb 15 that rises to $8000 on March 1 it becomes $14000.   For us no brainer. Cancel the cruise and shift to land trips.  Instead of 3 (total 40 days) South pacific cruises, hello to stays in Tahiti, Fiji and Hawaii.

 

The problem is with having a cruise booked at this point:

 

1. Are you going to be able to fly to get to the cruise outside of the US?

2. Is the cruise going to be at its currently planned departure point?

3. Are you going to be able to board (a slight fever might be able to keep you off at the port)?

4. Are ports going to prevent the ship from landing at scheduled ports (some south pacific  island ports have already announced that cruise ship stops are being stopped). So a nice cruise might turn into a cruise to nowhere.

5. What if a case does get on board are you going to be able to get off on time or held in quarantine.  If you do get off will the airlines let you fly.

 

I suspect some on the Diamond or on the HAL cruise that was blocked from Manila are having second thoughts about having their cruise booked.

 

For me the concern is not illness from the virus itself, but instead being in an out of control travel situation. We travel a great deal and currently have over 100 days booked on cruise ships this year. Not being able to fly due to a fever, or a delay in getting off a ship has potential to snowball and result in missed cruises and/or flights.  Not worth the worry about it at this point.  Currently in process to changing to less complex travel plans where a missed flight might be having to cancel a hotel reservation, not a missed cruise or 2 or 3. Have no desire to be on a cruise from Sydney to Honolulu with 6 ports (two already indicating that they are closed to cruise ships) turn into 16 days at sea with no ports. Or to be on a 14 and 10 day B2B only to find out things have changed dramatically during those 24 days.