Celebrity's Handling of their Millennium Sailing is SHAMEFUL!

[Denny01]

11 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

LOL, Y? Because they love You!

 

Of course this is a rhetorical question, which I Am sure one or two will disdain for sure...

 

What about your travel insurance, might that cover some of your expenses? 😉

 

Thanks...

 

bon voyage

Bo, all that insurance stuff is a ripoff!!!! Only we ‘Kool-Aid’ drinkers would even consider getting ourselves properly covered........said with ‘All due respect’ of course. 

 

Den

[mayleeman]

3 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

Bo, all that insurance stuff is a ripoff!!!! Only we ‘Kool-Aid’ drinkers would even consider getting ourselves properly covered........said with ‘All due respect’ of course. 

 

Den

I myself think Bo would look good with pom poms while imbibing! Me, too...

[BelloMundo]

2 hours ago, omeinv said:

I really try to empathize with you.  However, the more strident your statements become, the harder it is.

 

You have a strong opinion of how Celebrity should handle this situation, but Celebrity must consider that for every customer (not costumer) that wants to cancel, another wants the cruise to go forward.  Witness the fact that on the current cruise, there are many passengers in place to receive the full refund plus 50% cruise credit. 

 

You decided early on what you wanted, and confused your desire with the best possible resolution for all.  That's a textbook example of entitlement.

 

You repeatedly complain that others on this message board - the very forum you chose to publicly address this issue - are "flaming" you.  In fact you've repeatedly insulted many who offered insight.  The fact that someone sees that the cruise line has a huge stake in the outcome, and is taking measured steps to respond as events unfold does NOT mean they have "drank Kool-Aid".  your first post accused Celebrity of criminal activity.  If you make unreasonable claims, why would you expect others to think you are a reasonable consumer?

 

You have complained that Celebrity has not treated you the way you wanted.  You also claimed that you feel travel insurance is a bad deal, and thus didn't purchase any.  As is true in any case, if one chooses not to insure something, they are accepting the risk.  Many people do this, but then - as you are doing - want someone else to make them whole when their gamble results in a loss. 

 

Your feeling that Celebrity is driven by greed hardly bears up under reasonable scrutiny.  I can assure you that regardless of your (uninsured) investment, Celebrity, the other cruise lines, airlines, and countless other businesses have lost untold amounts of money, and will lose more.  This is the nature of an unforeseen event. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

 

Your opinion is meaningless to me and those that have been affected. Celebrity has acted in their own interest, there are many others that feel the same way. 

 

Airlines acted quickly and offered passengers many options, Celebrity has not. 

 

What is you motivation for defending Celebrity vs those that have been inadvertently affected, losing thousands of $$ to manage what Celebrity should have easily foreseen , or even those that are still to come? Yet they continue to repeat themselves. 

 

You want to stay on these sailing? Your choice. I should not be attacked for having a different opinion, especially when our safety as at stake.

[BelloMundo]

4 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

While Bo has been active on this thread and responsive to your situation, he is not the only one who feels for your plight or the others who are in similar, albeit even more dire situations.  As this situation is fluid and ever changing, I hope you get a favorable outcome...whatever that me be for your circumstance. 

 

I don't claim to be the solo sufferer, many here chose to be "civil" others chose to lash out. I'm most sympathetic to everyone that has been affected.

 

No insurance covers epidemics, period. We keep reading uninformed opinions about insurance, this does not apply. 

 

Celebrity has been making bad decisions in the 2/1 Sailing and about to repeat in the 2/15 sailing, failing their costumers, at a loss, I'm sure. At the same time, they are not easing their costumers concerns, yet, SOME, keep defending their bad decisions. Dozens or more of their passengers have been displaced and forced to handle their own expenses. 

 

Celebrity has failed their costumer base by delaying decisions in favor or their own interests, there is no other logical explanation, especially when obvious news reports, other travel operators such as airlines and Cruise lines have acted swiftly.

 

Celebrity has NO excuse for dropping the ball.

 

 

[mayleeman]

17 minutes ago, BelloMundo said:

what Celebrity should have easily foreseen

 

You keep saying this, but please tell us precisely when you think Celebrity should have known the first travel bans outside China would be imposed in the last week of January, as well as how they could have known the first bans would be expanded in a matter of merely days to include HK and Singapore?

 

And if you can explain how Celebrity's delays have helped to increase its profits, please do?

[Pushka]

 As a result of this thread I had to check our Insurance policy we purchased last year. It  covers epidemics and pandemics where the airlines or other transport cancels the cruise. Guess we are lucky in Australia as long as you purchase before the known date. 

[Bo1953]

15 minutes ago, BelloMundo said:

 

I don't claim to be the solo sufferer, many here chose to be "civil" others chose to lash out. I'm most sympathetic to everyone that has been affected.

 

No insurance covers epidemics, period. We keep reading uninformed opinions about insurance, this does not apply. 

 

Celebrity has been making bad decisions in the 2/1 Sailing and about to repeat in the 2/15 sailing, failing their costumers, at a loss, I'm sure. At the same time, they are not easing their costumers concerns, yet, SOME, keep defending their bad decisions. Dozens or more of their passengers have been displaced and forced to handle their own expenses. 

 

Celebrity has failed their costumer base by delaying decisions in favor or their own interests, there is no other logical explanation, especially when obvious news reports, other travel operators such as airlines and Cruise lines have acted swiftly.

 

Celebrity has NO excuse for dropping the ball.

Per what I have read from Travel Insurance Professionals, this is/was coverable IF the policy was purchased on/before 20 January 2020.

 

Also, it is totally dependent on which insurer one selected, yet from my understanding most companies will cover this situation... it is quite unfortunate that those who chose not to take out the insurance at time of booking or shortly thereafter, will loose out on lots of money because they chose to self-insure.

 

This was a concern and discussed on the insurance sub-forum here and at Elliott Advocacy, too...

 

Again, I understand how many can be upset, yet I find that there can be times when the upset is mis-directed, possibly.

 

bon voyage

[mayleeman]

2 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

Again, I understand how many can be upset, yet I find that there can be times when the upset is mis-directed, possibly.

 

 

My brother always quotes our dad as having constantly pointed out that the problem with "You learn from bad experiences" is that you have to have the bad experience to begin with.

[Bo1953]

To those who would think some of 'Us' are apologists or rah-rah's for X, the only thing I can suggest that it is My line of choice and pleasure.

 

Have they done wrong by me? You bet. Have they done what they could to correct it? You bet. Was I always happy with the action taken? No, yet I do appreciate the efforts at even the lowest levels of Management and Crew, after I went to the highest level of Management I thought was ultimately responsible.

 

Personally, I really do appreciate everything X has on offer and we, along with other friends and family share this opinion. Yes, we do have friends and family who will never sail X again due to issues which were not repairable to satisfaction. For this, I Am sorry and do understand totally, to be sure. Many of them are Crystal and Seabourn groupies and I love it for them... X is where we love to sail and more often than not within our chosen spending level for vacation.

 

Since I have not spent a lot of time in other forums here on CC, I Am sure they have their 'apologists' and rah-rah's too, yet I do not recollect reading any of them coming here to 'bash' a few loyalist, for which I and others will not apologize for in the least bit... as they need not apologize for in their respective forums.

 

Freedom of speech at work here and I do respect it... even if I do not agree with it at times... and will speak up to it as well! that is if one is not blocked... LOL

 

Be that as it may, life on the high seas with X is good by and for me...

 

bon voyage

[The_Big_M]

4 hours ago, cachouonacruise said:

Now at the crossroads, I would appreciate receiving feedback from experienced cruisers.

 

Booked on the March 14, 2020 cruise leaving from Tokyo to Singapore. Love the revised itinerary. However, Celebrity says the cruise is not cancelled; meanwhile, feedback from passengers on board Millenium on B2B cruises were notified that the Feb 15 cruise was cancelled and that the ship was repositioning to America...

 

My options are:

 

Waiting for Celebrity to cancel the cruise. If it occurs, based on past experiences, will the cruise fare and airfare booked via Flights by Celebrity fully refunded?

 

 

If Celebrity are to cancel in your scenario because the ship is no longer in the area, I would expect them to offer a full refund, including the Celebrity by air component. They will typically offer other options as well, but you don't need to worry about them.

 

Your other questions are predicated on the FCC so don't apply.

[cachouonacruise]

 

10 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

If Celebrity are to cancel in your scenario because the ship is no longer in the area, I would expect them to offer a full refund, including the Celebrity by air component. They will typically offer other options as well, but you don't need to worry about them.

 

Your other questions are predicated on the FCC so don't apply.

 

Thank you very much The Big M for the feedback! It is really appreciated! 

[Denny01]

1 hour ago, BelloMundo said:

 

.....No insurance covers epidemics, period. We keep reading uninformed opinions about insurance, this does not apply. 

Please stop with the incorrect putdowns. As mentioned before, many take out insurance that allows ‘for any reason’. I never thought I’d worry about epidemics, but with work, and now commitments not listed on standard contracts, I get that type and it has worked as advertised. And would in this situation. But that really isn’t the solution for everyone, and doesn’t help those that are in this mess now. 

 

But just don’t understand why the OP feels they need to keep attacking posters who aren’t ‘flaming’, just disagreeing with what is posted and the tone of posts.

 

I  have such as short memory - just a few days ago, I signed off on this thread, but I just had to come back and post supporting my buddy Bo!!

 

Den

[Pushka]

53 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

Please stop with the incorrect putdowns. As mentioned before, many take out insurance that allows ‘for any reason’. I never thought I’d worry about epidemics, but with work, and now commitments not listed on standard contracts, I get that type and it has worked as advertised. And would in this situation. But that really isn’t the solution for everyone, and doesn’t help those that are in this mess now. 

 

But just don’t understand why the OP feels they need to keep attacking posters who aren’t ‘flaming’, just disagreeing with what is posted and the tone of posts.

 

I  have such as short memory - just a few days ago, I signed off on this thread, but I just had to come back and post supporting my buddy Bo!!

 

Den

I guess I’m one of the uninformed also but maybe not, I’ve checked my policy and I’m covered for epidemics and pandemics. 

[omeinv]

4 hours ago, BelloMundo said:

 

Your opinion is meaningless to me and those that have been affected. Celebrity has acted in their own interest, there are many others that feel the same way. 

 

Airlines acted quickly and offered passengers many options, Celebrity has not. 

 

What is you motivation for defending Celebrity vs those that have been inadvertently affected, losing thousands of $$ to manage what Celebrity should have easily foreseen , or even those that are still to come? Yet they continue to repeat themselves. 

 

You want to stay on these sailing? Your choice. I should not be attacked for having a different opinion, especially when our safety as at stake.

 

At the risk of being accused of "attacking", lets get away from my "opinion" and deal with the facts, and the reason so many in this discussion are seeing your situation more realistically.

 

I) You've entered into two (or more) contracts.  One when you purchased air transportation, and another when you purchased the cruise. 

 

II) By your account it's clear you did not purchase air through the cruise line, so you have two completely separate transactions.  They are related as far as you are concerned, but the airline has no concern with the cruise, and the cruise has no concern with the airline. 

 

III) At this moment, you've decided you no longer want to go on the cruise.  Your reason is valid, and understandable.  You are concerned about the Corona Virus. 

 

IV) The contract you entered into with the cruise line is worded so that beginning at the point 90 days prior to sailing, penalties for cancellation become increasingly severe.  At this moment you would lose 75% of the cost of the cruise, and in a few days that will rise to 100%. 

 

V) You want Celebrity to void the contract, cancel your booking and return 100% of your money.  Your logic being that you don't feel it's safe to cruise, again due to the Corona Virus.  You also want Celebrity to be responsible for any costs you incur for cancelling the air travel.

 

Based on the above, here are the problems you face:

 

1) The contract you entered into with Celebrity specifically allows them to alter the itinerary of any cruise booked. 

 

2) Thus far the itinerary has been altered, but not cancelled. 

 

3) You are taking actions - such as disputing the charge with your credit card - based on events which have not yet occurred.  This will likely result in disappointment on your part, as the credit card company should say they cannot intervene when there has been no breech.  However, it is also a fact that if the credit card company reverses a charge, the company involved can then treat it like any other defaulted payment, and pursue collection by other means.  Be very cautious of the result of a credit card reversal. 

 

4) The good news here is many credit cards have a travel insurance provision.  If your card company chooses to treat this as a claim against that insurance, and pays, you're in perfect shape. 

 

5) Celebrity's (apparent) position is the cruise will go forward, as scheduled, and thus, as per the contract, they are owed the fare you've paid. 

 

6) At this moment, Celebrity has offered those booked on your cruise a future cruise credit in the amount paid for this cruise, and some credit toward air fare; should the passenger decide to cancel.  Obviously if one cancels and accepts this offer, it would be in lieu of any cash refund, or other compensation.  You do not want this, because you never want to sail on Celebrity again. 

 

7) Passengers on more current cruises, which have been cancelled, have been offered full refunds.  Alas, in many cases, they had either non-refundable air bookings, or had flown the flights they had booked.  You. suspect (an I agree by the way) there is a good likelihood, this will end up being the case on your cruise.  You don't want to be in the position of having to wait until nothing can be done about your air fare.  That's totally understandable, but unfortunately, not something Celebrity  has to factor into their timing (again, per the contract you entered into). 

 

At this moment, your have options, but none are completely satisfactory:

 

A) You could accept Celebrity's future cruise credit offer, and change your air reservations, likely incurring airline change fees.  This would probably result in you losing money on the air fare, due to the fees being more than the compensation offered; and would leave you in a position to have to cruise with Celebrity again.  For those reasons, I'll assume, this option is out of consideration. 

 

B) You could cancel immediately, losing 75% of the money paid, and then try to work out a refund with air lines, but they presumably also feel they've entered into a contract which they have every reason to expect you will uphold.  I'll assume this option is also unacceptable. 

 

C) You could do nothing, waiting until closer to the cruise date, hoping that Celebrity decides to cancel this cruise, and thus offer a 100% cash refund.  They likely would not increase their offer to compensate for air changes, but you'd gain something.  The primary risk to this option is you will pass the point (30 days prior to sailing) where the cruise becomes 100% non-refundable by contract.  This option has a built in issue.  At a certain point, you'll reach the date of your scheduled flight, but not yet the date of the cruise.  You don't want to travel to Asia (anywhere in Asia), so I suppose there's no decision left there.  You will not take the flight.  Thus, you would not be in a position to board the ship if the cruise goes forward. 

 

The faint silver lining if you choose the third option (wait and see) is that presumably Celebrity will not rescind their future cruise credit offer.  I suppose if you waited, and then the cruise did sail, you could then opt for that.  At that point, perhaps it would be the "least bad" outcome. 

 

You understandably look at this event at one trip, and feel that Celebrity should be responsible not only for the cruise, but the air transport as well.  As understandable as that feeling is, the contracts, rather than what we think is right, are controlling. 

 

Neither carrier's failure impacts the other.  For example.  Suppose I book a flight on Airline X to Miami, to arrive on June 1, with intention of boarding a cruise, on Cruise Line Y, on June 2.  The cruise is scheduled to sail to New York, arriving on June 10.  I book another flight on Airline X, from New York to Denver on June 11.  Presume my airline tickets are non-refundable economy tickets, and the terms of my cruise contract are the same as yours with Celebrity. 

 

If Airline X cancels my flight, and I cannot be re-accommodated, and therefore miss my cruise; Cruise Line Y is absolutely entitled to keep my fare, under the terms of the contract.  Further, Airline Y's liability is limited to refunding my ticket from Denver to Ft. Lauderdale.  What?  What about my now unwanted and useless ticket from New York to Denver?  Airline Y's position under our contract is that I purchased that ticket, and can still use it.  Since it's for an event that has not yet occurred, I would have no claim for a refund.

 

Now, suppose Airline X did get me to Miami as scheduled, but Cruise Line Y, decided to cancel the cruise. Under the contract, all they have to do is refund my cruise fare.  Meanwhile, I'm in Miami, with a plane ticket  9 days later, from a city I'm not in.  Cruise Line Y's position under our contract is "tough luck".  However, if Cruise Line Y acted like most cruise lines have, they would - voluntarily, and as a good will gesture - reimburse me for the change fee that Airline X would charge me to change my ticket from the New York to Denver on June 11, to Miami to Denver on June 2.  As a practical matter, the ticket I need on the day of travel is likely to be much more expensive than the ticket I booked in advance, so the cruise line would likely put a maximum on how much they would pay, meaning I would still incur some expense. 

 

The costs one incurs secondarily, such as wasted air fare when a cruise doesn't happen, are perfect examples of "incidental or consequential" damages, which pretty much every contract graciously declines responsibility for.  It seems unfair, but it's understandable when one considered that if they weren't disallowed, the sky would be the limit. 

 

Those expenses are one reason so many people choose to insure their travel. 

 

Again, I totally understand your feelings.  More than your feelings, I understand your unwillingness to travel to areas affected by the Corona Virus.  Alas, at this point, you are bound by agreements you entered into.  Neither you, nor Celebrity, nor the airlines are permitted to unilaterally change the agreement.  You wish Celebrity would, but they have not yet done so to your satisfaction.  You're faced with relatively few options, none of which you like. 

 

This is why I can repeat I'm empathetic, but you're stuck at the moment.  Nothing on Cruise Critic is going to change that.  If your desire is to open other's eyes to the potential problems, I'd say you've been quite successful. However, I think most people here see this as a case where you (and all booked passengers), the cruise lines, the airlines, and the countries involved are all put in a position where there will be few happy outcomes.  Although you believe Celebrity should make a decision today to offer you a refund, and pay for your incidental expenses; they have every reason to wait as this situation unfolds, in hopes of salvaging most booked passenger's travel plans, by offering a cruise. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by omeinv

[ipeeinthepool]

It's still amazing to me that the OP recognizes that this entire chain of events is not Celebrities fault but he/she expects Celebrity to bear the entire financial Impact.  

[Pushka]

5 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

It's still amazing to me that the OP recognizes that this entire chain of events is not Celebrities fault but he/she expects Celebrity to bear the entire financial Impact.  

Fault or blame doesn’t come into it. There is a contract to provide a service. For whatever reason that service can not be provided. (Assuming it is cancelled by the cruiseline). So regardless of what caused that default, the contract has been breached. Refund. 

[ipeeinthepool]

2 minutes ago, Pushka said:

…. There is a contract to provide a service. For whatever reason that service can not be provided. (Assuming it is cancelled by the cruiseline). So regardless of what caused that default, the contract has been breached. Refund. 

 

But it hasn't been cancelled by the cruiseline.  No breach of contract  No Refund

[ipeeinthepool]

8 hours ago, BelloMundo said:

 

Your opinion is meaningless to me  ...

 

So tell me again, why do you participate in these forums if you don't value the responses from other participants?

[yorky]

27 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Fault or blame doesn’t come into it. There is a contract to provide a service. For whatever reason that service can not be provided. (Assuming it is cancelled by the cruiseline). So regardless of what caused that default, the contract has been breached. Refund. 

To be fair it’s a little more complicated than that in this instance.

[Pushka]

52 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

But it hasn't been cancelled by the cruiseline.  No breach of contract  No Refund

Yes, agree - I’ve just read so many comments here stating this isn’t the fault of celebrity but the impact of the corona virus. I’m restating that the cause of the default isn’t relevant. 
 

And that’s a cash refund not a FCC. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Pushka

[ipeeinthepool]

1 minute ago, Pushka said:

Yes, agree but it needs to be cash refund and not FCC. 

 

Sure, if a cruise is cancelled.  The OP's cruise has not been cancelled.  NO REFUND

[JeanieC,Aston]

1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

It's still amazing to me that the OP recognizes that this entire chain of events is not Celebrities fault but he/she expects Celebrity to bear the entire financial Impact.  

But won't Celebrity's insurer bear the financial loss,or doesn't Celebrity insure itself?

[Pushka]

3 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Sure, if a cruise is cancelled.  The OP's cruise has not been cancelled.  NO REFUND

I suspect it will be but that is conjecture on my part. But as I reposted, that’s cash refund not FCC. And the cause is irrelevant but that seems to be used in this board as a reason for celebrity having no obligation to refund where the cruise is cancelled. The cause is irrelevant and Celebrity does have to bear that for the cost of the cruise. Your original post inferred otherwise. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Pushka

[ipeeinthepool]

3 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I suspect it will be but that is conjecture on my part. ...

 

Really???   Have they cancelled any cruises?  Do you have any evidence to suggest any cruises will be cancelled?

[yorky]

6 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I suspect it will be but that is conjecture on my part. But as I reposted, that’s cash refund not FCC. And the cause is irrelevant but that seems to be used in this board as a reason for celebrity having no obligation to refund where the cruise is cancelled. The cause is irrelevant and Celebrity does have to bear that for the cost of the cruise. Your original post inferred otherwise. 

 

I think that’s where views differ in this case. Of course given they have not cancelled any cruises it’s mute anyway at this point.

Edited February 9, 2020 by yorky