Fortunes Casino Review

[Davidson10]

I was not expecting the various tables to have even average casino odds for the players, but actually shocked at how bad the table games on my two week cruise.

 

(1)  CRAPS games allows only two time odds if the pass/come bet is less than $25. Which is a huge increase in the house edge against the player who wants to play less than $25 on the pass or come bets.  Seldom saw anyone play Craps for more than 15 or 20 minutes.  Since most player were not interested in betting $ 25 or more per bet, most of the time the table was completely empty.  

 

(2) POKER - rake is 10% up to $ 25.  Maximum buy in was $ 200.   Most land based poker rooms have a 10% rake up to $4 or $ 5.   Which means the Fortunes casino is taking from $ 400 to $ 700 dollars an hour off the poker table.   Even the best professional poker players can not win with this high of a house rank.  Due to the high rake, most days there was not enough players willing to play to get a poker game started.     

 

(3) POKER TOURAMENT -  Entry fee is $60, 10 people per table and the casino keeps 25%.  or  $ 150 out of the $600 per table.   On sea days, three poker tournaments were schedule for each day.   As such, if there were actually a 10 person poker tournament started three times a day there would be total entry fees of $ 1,800 out which the would keep $ 450.

1st day overflow of people wanting to play a poker tournament.   2nd day only 9 entries.   3rd day only 6 interested player and they were unable to start a tournament the rest of the cruise.

 

(4) BLACKJACK AND 6/5 TWENTY ONE   -  All games had a sign stating not, "No payout over $ 10,000.

 

      (A)  Only a couple of traditional blackjack tables,  minimum bet of $ 50 or higher per hand.

 

      (B)  One single deck 6/5 twenty one game.  No double after split and no even money offer.

 

      (C)  Several 6/5 twenty one 6 deck shoe games.   No even money offer. 

 

      (D)  What is the difference between Blackjack and 6/5 twenty one ?    In the 6/5 game, the house odds is increase by 8 times.  Which is why experienced Blackjack players consider the                   6/5 games as a fake blackjack scam.

 

(5) ROULETTE  

 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Davidson10

[Davidson10]

(5) ROULETTE

       (A)   One double zero roulette table.   Minimum bet  $5  Maximum bet $ 1,000.  Usually had at least 3 or more players. 

       (B)   One single zero roulette table.   Minimum bet $10 Maximum bet $ 1,000.  This game was opened only for a few hours each day at the peak times.  Usually between 8 and 10pm.

       (C)    Difference between single and double zero roulette ?     The house advantage is several times greater on the double zero game verse the single zero.

 

(6) BACCARAT   One table.  Minimum bet $ 100 and maximum bet $ 2,000.     I think this game had the expected rules and payouts, but I am not sure.  Only once saw more than one person       playing (which was two people) and only late at night.   Why not lower the minimum and maybe more than one or two people will play ?

 

(7) ULTIMATE TEXAS HOLD'EM   One table.   Ante and Blind bets $ 5 to $ 100.    Trips bet $ 1 to $ 50.   "Total payout cannot exceed $ 10,000".    So if you bet $ 100 on the Blind bet and                  actually got a Royal Flush, instead of, winning $ 50,000 you will receive $ 10,000.  Appeared to be the most popular game, but only one table.

 

(8)  3 CARD POKER    One table.   Bet $10 to $100  and  $ 10 to $ 500.  Never played this game.   Don't know if the rules have been changed on this game to increase the house advantage.

 

With over 2,500 customers on the cruise ship, Fortunes casino should be very busy (200 to 300 people) on all Sea Days.  However,  with the horrible increase in the House advantage on almost all games, the room was never crowded except for a few times for only 30 or 45 minutes.    Fortunes casino is more like a room full of carnival games than a casino.  

 

I don't have any reference for the slot machines, other than I did not see any one playing very often.   So I'm guessing the house advantage on the slots are also several times greater than in a land based casino.

 

Come on guys show some business common sense.  Turn down your blinding greed a little and provide a casino your customer will enjoy and spend much more time in.

 

Consider the old casino owner saying.  " you can skin a sheep only once, but shear it several times".

[Janthere]

2 hours ago, Davidson10 said:

 

With over 2,500 customers on the cruise ship, Fortunes casino should be very busy (200 to 300 people) on all Sea Days.  However,  with the horrible increase in the House advantage on almost all games, the room was never crowded except for a few times for only 30 or 45 minutes.    Fortunes casino is more like a room full of carnival games than a casino.  

 

I don't have any reference for the slot machines, other than I did not see any one playing very often.   So I'm guessing the house advantage on the slots are also several times greater than in a land based casino.

 

Come on guys show some business common sense.  Turn down your blinding greed a little and provide a casino your customer will enjoy and spend much more time in.

 

 

We sailed on the Solstice in September and the Silhouette in December. Both times the casino was only VERY busy when they gave everyone $5 free play. The remainder of the time it was pretty slow. I only play video poker and occasionally slots. Video poker was maxed out at the highest speed possible and you couldn't change it. Also the volume was super high and not able to be adjusted. There were only 3 triple play machines and no low denominations at all. Drink service was incredibly slow to non-existent even when we cash tipped the server. All of this made the playing experience less than enjoyable and I too felt like it just wasn't a fun experience - not what it could/should be. I realize the casino exists to make Celebrity money but feel like they could make a lot more getting higher numbers in the room via more favourable conditions.  We also sailed Princess last year and had a great time (and better luck as we played longer)  in their much busier casinos. They also had a lot of greater variety of newer better sounding/playing slots like the James Bond machines etc. I was surprised as this was a smaller, older Princess ship. We are pretty loyal to Celebrity and really appreciate the no smoking casinos so this won't stop us from sailing with them again but it definitely limits our time/money spent in Fortunes. 

[tompeter]

OP...what ship were you on? 

Thx.

[Globehoppers]

9 hours ago, Davidson10 said:

Come on guys show some business common sense.  Turn down your blinding greed a little and provide a casino your customer will enjoy and spend much more time in.

 

They are showing great "business sense."  They know how to take your money and know you, and the next group of passengers, will be there to give them $$$.  One of the biggest money makers for a cruise ship.

[George C]

Agree rake on poker games is extremely high, what I do like is on celebrity you can prebuy chips and get a ten percent bonus, so if you buy 500 in chips they will give you 550 . Sailing next week on infinity. Will play blackjack and roulette.

[PTC DAWG]

They have a captive audience to say the least...still, I have some fun.  Watch my bankroll and don’t expect Vegas odds..

[oceanbill457]

Very disappointing. My last cruise with Celebrity some time ago, the craps minimum was $5 with 3,4,5 odds. I am on the Reflection in July. I won't be playing craps with this setup. Very informative blog by Davidson 10.

[jmdlv1]

On 2/6/2020 at 11:51 PM, Davidson10 said:

(5) ROULETTE

       (A)   One double zero roulette table.   Minimum bet  $5  Maximum bet $ 1,000.  Usually had at least 3 or more players. 

       (B)   One single zero roulette table.   Minimum bet $10 Maximum bet $ 1,000.  This game was opened only for a few hours each day at the peak times.  Usually between 8 and 10pm.

       (C)    Difference between single and double zero roulette ?     The house advantage is several times greater on the double zero game verse the single zero.

 

(6) BACCARAT   One table.  Minimum bet $ 100 and maximum bet $ 2,000.     I think this game had the expected rules and payouts, but I am not sure.  Only once saw more than one person       playing (which was two people) and only late at night.   Why not lower the minimum and maybe more than one or two people will play ?

 

(7) ULTIMATE TEXAS HOLD'EM   One table.   Ante and Blind bets $ 5 to $ 100.    Trips bet $ 1 to $ 50.   "Total payout cannot exceed $ 10,000".    So if you bet $ 100 on the Blind bet and                  actually got a Royal Flush, instead of, winning $ 50,000 you will receive $ 10,000.  Appeared to be the most popular game, but only one table.

 

(8)  3 CARD POKER    One table.   Bet $10 to $100  and  $ 10 to $ 500.  Never played this game.   Don't know if the rules have been changed on this game to increase the house advantage.

 

With over 2,500 customers on the cruise ship, Fortunes casino should be very busy (200 to 300 people) on all Sea Days.  However,  with the horrible increase in the House advantage on almost all games, the room was never crowded except for a few times for only 30 or 45 minutes.    Fortunes casino is more like a room full of carnival games than a casino.  

 

I don't have any reference for the slot machines, other than I did not see any one playing very often.   So I'm guessing the house advantage on the slots are also several times greater than in a land based casino.

 

Come on guys show some business common sense.  Turn down your blinding greed a little and provide a casino your customer will enjoy and spend much more time in.

 

Consider the old casino owner saying.  " you can skin a sheep only once, but shear it several times".

Very informative post.

Want to make sure I understand the craps odds.

For players betting $25 or more on the Pass Line or Come bets ,can they still get 3x4x5x odds?

First two Celebrity Cruises on the Century were single odds only.

Then Solstice class went to 3x4x5x.

I usually bet green chips so I'm hoping it's still available.

 

 

[Davidson10]

Yes,  if your bet is $ 25 or more the pass/come bet odds are 3x4x5x.

 

If you prefer playing at a craps table with only one end of the table open and seldom put than two players for more than 15 minutes,  the limits of the odds, which resulted in almost no craps play,  maybe viewed as desirable.

 

I actually prefer that the times when it is only a friend and myself.  However, on this trip, she did not want to have more than $10 in action at any time, so we spend zero time at the craps table.  I actually usually spread $150 to $ 250 in bet, but not on this ship

 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Davidson10

[jmdlv1]

I am not a fan of playin solo.The stick tends to push the game and your money can disappear quick.

It seems like every cruise is different in terms of casino crowds and more specifically dice.

Seems like BJ always gets some action although there were no 6:5 tables any time I cruised.

Looks like they are following the lead of the LV Strip in penalizing low limit players.

Been on a couple ships where there were only a few craps players that would show up every now and then.

On others , the table would be busy every night.

 

 

[Davidson10]

On 2/7/2020 at 8:44 AM, Globehoppers said:

They are showing great "business sense."  They know how to take your money and know you, and the next group of passengers, will be there to give them $$$.  One of the biggest money makers for a cruise ship.

 

I have not read a financial report breaking out Celebrity cruises '  various profit segments.  Actually I would have guess that any of the other business segments, such as,  food sales, wine, beer and alcohol sales, excursions sales, retail shop rental income, sales of future cruises on board, spa operations, maybe some other business segments would have provided greater net income. 

 

Can you provide the source for your statement ?   I'm actually surprised a casino with less than 20 tables is, "one of the biggest money maker for a cruise ship".

 

I think seeing the result for the various profit centers on Celebrity cruise would be very interesting to the cruise critic membership and readers.

 

For some reason whoever manages the casino operations had decided that a casino with lower net income, but higher gross margins was preferable over a casino with lower margins, but greater net income from higher volume.  Not sure why the management changed the game rules that results in dealers often just standing at the empty tables staring off into space.  Maybe they like bragging about the larger gross margins, but ignore the drop in net income from the casino segments

 

What am I basing my statement on ?  Often observing many dealers standing at empty tables staring off into space.  When I travel and stay at other resort type environment with casino operations,  I spend 20 to 30 hours a week at poker, 10 to 15 hours a week at craps & real blackjack.  This trip had 8 sea days plus nights when the casino was open, but I spend most of those days and nights sitting on the dock with friends enjoying my classic drink package or in my room reading and watching movies, & programs I had pretrip downloaded on my laptop.  This trip other than walking thru the casino room, I spend less an hour at a table with money in play.  I know my friends on the trip did the same. 

 

Sadly to correct the problems and increase the ships net income from the casino requires someone saying,  "I made a mistake".

Which seldom happens in management.  Most likely will take a change in the head of casino operations to make it happen.

 

[Davidson10]

On 2/7/2020 at 7:25 AM, tompeter said:

OP...what ship were you on? 

Thx.

 

Solstice.

 

I had a cruise on this ship three or four years earlier and was very disappointed in the changes in the casino.

 

Doesn't mean I won't ever book another cruise with Celebrity Cruises.   But if a competing cruise line with a casino has a similar itinerary that I am interested in, I will book with their competition.

 

[richard1s]

The casino has always been one of the many things my wife and I  enjoyed on our over 30 cruises. However on our last cruise 2 years ago on the Equinox, we decided to take a hiatus from cruising altogether. The dismal effort put forth by Celebrity with their casino was one of the reasons.

 

My wife loves slots and I also enjoy machines as well as all table games. However I found the table minimums way too high for my comfort level on this cruise. While I can afford a $15 BJ minimum, I also know that you can lose very fast at that level. I am mainly there to pass the time and have some fun and experience interaction with fellow passengers and dealers. Those minimums are too high a price to pay for that benefit. A $10 minimum on 3 card poker quickly becomes a $30 hand, and wagers at craps play can also get really steep, really fast.

 

Needless to say, the casino was dead the entire week; very few players. As I recall, only about a third of table games even had a dealer in attendance at any given time. I mentioned this to one of the managers and he commented that at least for recent voyages, this was the personnel cost cutting direction someone made. After this voyage, in addition to some other aspects of the direction Celebrity has taken with regard to entertainment and activities, we decided to take a break from cruising. 

 

As it turned out, on that last cruise we had about $800 in OBC. We used it for wagering and on one of my few visits to the casino, I played 3 card poker and hit a straight flush early on that paid about $500; I quit immediately and didn't play again the entire week. I also won a little at video poker; but what I really wanted and missed on that trip was the fun of a vibrant and exciting casino. Along with other aspects of cruising, I guess those days are gone with Celebrity.

[oceanbill457]

As a craps player, it is sad to miss the joy of playing $5 craps with 3,4, 5 odds. When the table is full the house benefits. I have been at Binions in Las Vegas and observed a player lose a million dollars while other players were making $3 bets.

[twentyknots]

We're on the Reflection in April.  I like BJ very much and practice before the cruise on a free online site so that my game is 100% in compliance with basic BJ.  I play thousands of hands in practice so that my reaction time is immediate and consistent.  I dont have to think and ponder any hand and how I'm going to react to the cards.  I usually bring $500-1000 to play with depending on the length of cruise.  The April cruise is 11 nights so will bring $1000.  I expect to lose it all.  I usually do.  I like the casino atmosphere and interaction with other players.  I especially like the no smoking on Celebrity.

I hope I misunderstood  what the OP said about the minimum bet of $50 at BJ.  I dont have a problem with $10 or even $25, but $50 is pretty steep for me.  The last time I was on the Reflection I think the minimum was $10 and the BJ table across from me had a $500 minimum bet.  I dont recall it having a maximum payout.  My fantasy was to be up a $1000 and play that table.  No such luck as I lost all of my play money.  I will say that the casino was not crowded.  I prefer to play BJ with a full table but that was hard to find on the Reflection.

Edited February 9, 2020 by twentyknots
correction

[Pattyhoo]

We were on the Reflection 1/20/20 cruise and pleasantly surprised to find $5 Blackjack tables afternoon and evening. We enjoyed playing every day and actually left the ship up about $100. Btw, free drinks for casino guests. 

[Davidson10]

6 hours ago, twentyknots said:

We're on the Reflection in April.  I like BJ very much and practice before the cruise on a free online site so that my game is 100% in compliance with basic BJ.  I play thousands of hands in practice so that my reaction time is immediate and consistent.  I dont have to think and ponder any hand and how I'm going to react to the cards.  I usually bring $500-1000 to play with depending on the length of cruise.  The April cruise is 11 nights so will bring $1000.  I expect to lose it all.  I usually do.  I like the casino atmosphere and interaction with other players.  I especially like the no smoking on Celebrity.

I hope I misunderstood  what the OP said about the minimum bet of $50 at BJ.  I dont have a problem with $10 or even $25, but $50 is pretty steep for me.  The last time I was on the Reflection I think the minimum was $10 and the BJ table across from me had a $500 minimum bet.  I dont recall it having a maximum payout.  My fantasy was to be up a $1000 and play that table.  No such luck as I lost all of my play money.  I will say that the casino was not crowded.  I prefer to play BJ with a full table but that was hard to find on the Reflection.

I have not traveled on Celebrity Cruise ship "Reflection",  but I suspect the setup is the same as the other Celebrity Cruises ships.  To be sure, you should contact Celebrity Cruises.   Hopefully they will give you a straight forward answer and not some evasive nonsense.  

 

If the Reflection Fortunes casino has the same setup as the other Celebrity ships, than yes to play traditional or real Blackjack the minimum bet is $ 50 and up.  Sadly you understood correctly.   These games pay the expected  1.5 to 1 on blackjacks, even money offer, double on any two cards, split up to four times, double after split,  and Insurance.  I forgot to ask about a surrender option, but I doubt they have it.

 

All other twenty one games with minimum bet less than $ 50 were fake 6:5 twenty one games  on which the house advantage was over 700% greater than on the $ 50 and up blackjack tables.   The 6:5 twenty one games pay 20% less on blackjacks and no even money offer, plus other normal player advantaged options are removed.  The 6:5 games are little more than a carnival game at the State Fair. Which gives you an Ideal of what the Celebrity thinks about their captive guests.

 

I suspect the online blackjack software you are using to practice with is a blackjack game that paid 1.5 to 1 on blackjacks, split four times, double after splits, double on any two cards and surrender.   To put that practice to use on Celebrity cruise, you have to head to the $ 50 table.    As you know by now, you should stay away from the high limit games unless your bankroll for gambling is over $ 5,000.   Otherwise you can end up with too high a percentage of your bankroll on a single hand of blackjack.  At 40 to 60 or more hands an hour, a $ 500 bankroll can be lost on a  $ 50 minimum table in less than one hour.  Not much fun doing that !!!

 

Here's a couple of site to read about the 6/5 scam

 

https://www.blackjackinfo.com/no-6-to-5-blackjack/

 

http://www.blackjack-scams.com/html/6_5_blackjack.html

 

Please ask Celebrity before your trip and after you are on the ship about the changes they have made to increase the house advantage.   I did and was told that no one else seemed concerned about it.  To which I said that I think the guest are disappointed  and  I pointed out that after the first two sea days with over 2,800 guests (the ship was so full over 30 officers had to give up their suites) there wasn't 9 people interested in playing the high raked poker game or the poker tournaments and the craps table was empty and the blackjack tables (except for an hour or two at the peak time each day) seldom had more than 7 or 8 people playing in the entire casino.   The manager did not disagreed, just shrugged his shoulders, smiled and walked off.  

 

To be fair a lot of US land based casinos, (las vegas strip) are also switching out blackjack tables for 6:5 twenty one games in the low limit areas.  As a result, the amount of play has dropped and the house take from the blackjack and 6:5 twenty one are significant less than what it was ten years ago.  But it has helped Fremont street downtown got a bump up in their blackjack revenue as some low limit players headed downtown to play blackjack.

 

Good luck !!!     

 

[NutsAboutGolf]

Former cruiseline employee report with slots, the entire average is a 80% payback rate.  Vegas is closer to 90% and the most in the states is Reno at 93%.  I was on the Solstice this May-June and fully agree with the OPs review.  One night after receiving my drink 25mins later, I stopped using drink service and would just get up and get my drink from the bar myself which allowed me to check my phone and respond to my friends on the ship.  I'm honestly surprised they still have the single zero roulette table at all.  RCL also has single zeros so it appears X and RCL has standardized both casinos and RCLs casinos odds could be exactly the same as Xs.

[Davidson10]

6 hours ago, Pattyhoo said:

We were on the Reflection 1/20/20 cruise and pleasantly surprised to find $5 Blackjack tables afternoon and evening. We enjoyed playing every day and actually left the ship up about $100. Btw, free drinks for casino guests. 

Great to hear !!  

 

It was 6/5 twenty one, Right ?   Single deck ?   You were very very lucky to have won at that game over that many days. 

 

If so,  8 or 9 days at blackjack with the traditional rules, at that amount of win rate, you would have easily been up much much more.

 

We can estimated the money you were cheated out of due to the scam game over 9 days.

 

Average 4 hours per day times 5 blackjacks per hour is 20 blackjacks per day.

If you always  bet $ 5,  and got paid $6, instead of $ 7.50, you are shorted $ 1.50 per blackjack

Shortage(cheated) out of:  20 blackjacks per day times 1.50 equal $ 30 per day.

9 days of $ 30 equals $ 270 less paid to you over 9 days of blackjack play.

 

Of course if you average more than 4 hours of play per day, the shortage would be greater. 

 

The rules like no even money option and limits on splitting, no doubling after split, etc also reduced the amount you could have left the ship with.

 

 For another calculation, I copied the below from "Golden Touch Craps".

How frequently does a player get a blackjack?

a. Once every 15 hands

b. Once every 21 hands

c. Once every 30 hands

Answer: b. The game is 21 and you can expect to get a blackjack once in every 21 hands. This brings me to the point why I harp that you should never play any blackjack game that pays 6-5, instead of 3-2, for a winning blackjack. Suppose you play two hours worth of blackjack on one of the heavily advertised, $10 minimum, 6-5 single deck games. Let's assume you are dealt 100 hands per hour, so over the course of two hours you played 200 hands of blackjack. Getting a blackjack once every 21 hands means that you should theoretically have gotten about 10 blackjacks. Sometimes youll get more blackjacks in two hours of play, sometimes less, but on average youll get 10. Each of those blackjack hands cost you $3 on a 6-5 game (the difference between getting paid 3-2 vs. 6-5, or $12 instead of $15, for your $10 wager). So you forked over $30 to the casino for the privilege of playing a single deck game (yeah, right). Save your money and avoid playing any 6-5 single deck games.

 

 

[Pattyhoo]

I agree that the 6/5 blackjack is poor odds. I believe that the $25 tables and higher paid 3/2. 
We played at tables that were 8 deck shoes. The last time we were in a casino was a cruise in June. Obviously we find blackjack entertainment and do not expect huge winnings. This was an 11 day trip. 
My husband has a masters in math and often quotes similar statistics. However, we enjoy the game, the dealers and other players. Have some fun! If you don’t want to play, find something else to do on the ship. 

[oceanbill457]

Pattyhoo

I think Davidson 10 clearly said that.

[Drysil]

Ugh.

 

This was the BJ direction that X seemed to be heading in when I was on Summit in '18.  At that time, it didn't seem like the 6:5 / 3:2 split was *too* much worse than non-Vegas venues I'd been at;  I had to sit at a $15 table for 3:2, but that worked OK for me. I kind of wonder if the new(ish) partnership with MGM led to the vast increase in 6:5.....and what that means for both the partnership and the longevity of this........unfortunate......change.

[neilrr]

On 2/8/2020 at 5:26 PM, richard1s said:

My wife loves slots and I also enjoy machines as well as all table games. However I found the table minimums way too high for my comfort level on this cruise. While I can afford a $15 BJ minimum, I also know that you can lose very fast at that level. I am mainly there to pass the time and have some fun and experience interaction with fellow passengers and dealers. Those minimums are too high a price to pay for that benefit. A $10 minimum on 3 card poker quickly becomes a $30 hand, and wagers at craps play can also get really steep, really fast.

 

richard1s - I totally agree with you. My Partner and I like to go to the casino to have a little fun. We also only had $10 and up BJ tables - which I did play a bit (with some left over non-refundable shipboard credit) and won, but I also enjoy Three Card Poker and $30 per hand is too steep for me. Celebrity (and other casinos too) would rather have croupiers standing around at an empty $25 or $100 per hand table rather than opening a $5 table that would be full... I really don't get that logic at all... 

 

This was Christmas week and though the ship was busy the casino was not. They did give $5 credit on slots one night. By little gambling done, we actually left the ship with more than we came with...😊  We will be on the Edge in March so we shall see.... Happy travels...🛳️

Edited February 10, 2020 by neilrr

[Fly and Sail]

I find Fortunes Casino to be one of the biggest letdowns of all cruise lines. The hosts suck as well. I usually take Celebrity as part of my MGM Noir benefits (1-2 free cruises per year) and usually I'm entitled to a welcome gift and other stuff. Never once did the host come through with that. The odds on the table games are pretty bad unless you wager quite high.

 

As far as slots go I don't feel like the payouts are much worse but I stopped going to Fortunes altogether and rather play at land based casinos that provide better pay tables.